Fuel tank and In-tank pump vs engine mounted lift pump help

[dripley]

Thanks @JAG1. I learned alot about the fuel system. Started about 2 weeks after I paid almost a grand for my lovely in tank fuel pump. Expensive lesson.

[IBMobile]

7 hours ago, DocH said:

The above IS how the rig does act, but for some reason it seems the lift pump is not continuing to run after the engine starts.

Did your mechanic volt test at the pump to see if the ECM is providing 12 volts or not when engine starts.  If 12 volts is pump still running, if yes then test pressure. If not 12 volts then there may be an issue with the wiring or ECM. 

[JAG1]

Dripley that's an expensive lesson. I think that's the reason most of us are here because most have gotten burned one time or another. The Cummins is a good bet, if set up properly.

Edited October 28, 2016 by JAG1

[DocH]

On ‎10‎/‎28‎/‎2016 at 0:03 AM, IBMobile said:

Did your mechanic volt test at the pump to see if the ECM is providing 12 volts or not when engine starts.  If 12 volts is pump still running, if yes then test pressure. If not 12 volts then there may be an issue with the wiring or ECM. 

Thanks for the reply!

I have been trying to get My mechanic to check and clean all the grounds...I disconnected all of the connections that I could reach (A large portion of My lumbar spine is fused due to an On the job injury years ago, so My ability to twist, bend and reach some of the connections under the hood and up under the engine is somewhat limited)... , then cleaned with contact cleaner, then applied dielectric grease and reconnected what I could get to.

 

How would things work if 12 power were supplied to the Raptor lift pump directly from the battery and a switch placed in the cab-dashboard, so a Guy would 1st flip the switch to supply power to the Raptor, then start then engine after priming?

Then just leave the lift pump running while driving, then to shut down, turn the key off, then flip the switch to shut the raptor down?

Would the return banjo valve just send the excess diesel that the VP44 was not needing at the moment right back to the fuel tank?

I'm thinking that might even help keep the fuel a bit warmer in very cold weather as the excess was returned to the tank.

Thanks Much for ALL of the help here folks!!

Ed

PS: The cost of a New OEM ECM for My rig is $697.00 plus tax.

The Parts Manager was surprised that it was not more...apparently the ECM for a much newer Ram was over 3x as much!

 

 

One more question...

My mechanic was wondering if there is a wiring diagram , I guess so He could wire 12v to the Raptor lift pump, but do it in such a way so that instead of an in-cab switch to send 12v from the battery to the Raptor, wire is so that when the key is turned on, then 12v power is sent to the Raptor.

Ideas or suggestions?

And would the simple "switch in the dashboard" be more straightforward?

Thanks Again,

Ed

 

I really want to get the rig running so I can "Test drive" it for a week or so, Before heading out 2900 miles to the NW...really don't want to be Road kill in southern WY or UT etc!!

Ed

[dripley]

One bad with the switch idea is if you are in a wreck the fuel pump will keep pumping fuel until it is shut off. If a fuel line is ruptured and you are incapacitated it will keep pumping fuel. Have your mech check the voltage to the pump from the ECM. It is better to use that harness for a relay trigger and wire in a relay like @IBMobile mentions a few posts back. The ECM shuts down the pump when it sees the motor not running and the key is on.

 Another issue with straight wiring it is to much pressure to the VP during starting. The ECM actually cycles the pump on and off quickly to reduce pressure during starting. I have mine set on 18 psi and during starting I only see maybe 10 psi or less. Some VP's seem more susceptible to this than others from what I have read.

 Running under control of the ECM is the best way, but you would not be the first person to do it.I personally would not want. There is maybe another way to do it, I just would not know what that would be.

 As far as that ECM is concerned I would jump on that. Especially if it was new old stock. The only ECM's I know of are used or remans. I have not heard of any new ones. For $700 I would buy one and hold onto it. My Reman from Cummins cost me $1400 installed 5 years ago. Makes me wonder if he was looking at a PCM and not an ECM.

[IBMobile]

5 hours ago, DocH said:

so a Guy would 1st flip the switch to supply power to the Raptor, then start then engine after priming?

  If your fuel system is good you don't need to prime it.  Those of use that are running the Fuel Boss pump are not using an electrical pump to prime. 

  Driply is right about not running the pump straight off the battery with out some kind of auto shut off feature post engine shut down.  The fire risk is just to great with two batteries and that positive cable running over the top of the radiator.

[Haggar]

You could test with the in cab switch, but IBM and Drip are right... Scary to have it setup without an auto shutoff.

 

If you wanted, you could put a pressure switch in the oil system (there is an un-used  threaded boss in the oil filter housing).  This would prevent pump during starting, but allow it to run while engine is running.  When engine stops, so does the pump.  If your ECM is no longer outputing the Fuel pump power, but nothing else is wrong with the ECM yet, this might be a good patch until it fully dies. 

 

Good luck!

 

Hag

[dripley]

I knew there was a way I could not think of last night. I ran a booster pump on mine for some years using an oil pressure switch. There is also a threaded boss in the block on the drivers side about mid way of the block and just above the oil pan. My old oil pressure switch is still in it. No oil pressure no power.

[DocH]

Update!

When the Parts Manager at a local Dodge Dealer  went to order the New Old Stock ECM,  none were to be found!

Apparently the parts computer had not updated...

So I guess it's re-man time.

Anybody have a favorite source for a Re-man. ECM?

 

Another question...My mechanic says the rig is not getting steady fuel from the new Raptor lift pump, even wired directly to 12v.

 

When He was trying to clean the 2 screens on the bottom of the factory fuel intake assembly (The whiteish cylindrical unit that holds the fuel gauge float assembly ), one of the screens tore. There is also the protruding thing with the 3 tabs poking up in the pic...He took that assembly out. Could that be part of the problem in not getting fuel thru? There is also a smaller cylinder inside of the main unit...is that a filter as well? That unit is still inside of the main unit.

The Mech used compressed air and blew thru the inlets 'till it seemd like things were "clear".

 The rig WAS running before the part in the pic was taken out, the Airtex pump was just not supplying enough pressure at anything more than light throttle, which I assume was due to the clogged screens.

 

The fuel lines from the tank to the lift pump were replaced back in January, but  I had a different mechanic and He just went with stock lines. The current Mech thinks replacing the lines with 1/2" would be a good idea.

 

Ideas Guys?

 

Is there a kit that supplies everything from the tank to the Raptor lift pump?

And I am not dead set against doing away with the OEM fuel filter set-up and going with an "on the frame" set-up...but how do they do in extreme cold weather?

Being on Social Security Disability DOES restrict the budget, but I want to keep the rig, so am open to ideas.

I need to have Her up and running by next weekend as My Brother is flying in on the 15th  to drive Westward to South Central WA. State with Me. We need to be 2900 miles West of here {Orange County, NY).  by the 20th of this month for a Family Member's Funeral. 

Speaking of My current location (Zip 10940 ) does anybody know of a diesel Mechanic/shop They would recommend? I am located right where NJ, PA, and NY all come together...right beside where I-84 enters PA from NY.

 

Thanks All,

Ed

 

The pic is of the very bottom of that white round cylinder-unit that the fuel lines hook to on top of the fuel tank.

[01cummins4ever]

The crud in that pic looks to me like paraffin wax build up, usually caused by gelled fuel or your dumping some really crappy fuel in. Regardless I hope you have cleaned your tank spotless. and also your factory fuel canister 

Have you changed your filter latley along with cleaning the factory canister ?

 

I would recommend a draw straw and 1/2 inch lines, and not deal with the in tank fuel modual, Call Vulcan performance and tell them what you have and they can set you up,

 

I would keep your factory fuel filter and canister due to it has a built in heating element for cold weather use.

 

 

[DocH]

Thanks for the reply 01cummins4ever !

I am using the Hastings FF1260 (5 micron) filter in the factory filter housing and try and get it changed about every 5 k.

The books call for the FF1160, but I found the FF1260 is the same filter, but 5 microns vs 11 microns for the FF1160.

 

Checking with Vulcan now..

Ed

 

[DocH]

OK!

Thanks for the Vulcan Performance recommendation, 01Cumminsforever!

Talked with Eric just after They opened yesterday and He got Me set up with a DrawStraw module and 1/2 " line and connectors.

I can't see why the ecm would be working with the Airtex and not with the Raptor Lift Pump.

Are there particular ground connections that seem to be problematic?

Thanks,

Ed

[dripley]

if you are using the oe lift pump connector to run the pump the ECM would not know the difference.

[DocH]

Here's a weird one...While looking inside the tank, We found a small greenish ball...appears to be made of rubber or plastic, about the size of a golf ball!

Anybody know the purpose of it?

I use a locking fuel cap, so I don't THINK someone just chucked it in there.

Is it to keep the fuel "agitated" or?

 

And, Is there a favorite winter fuel additive that Folks like?

My Brother, Son and Myself are heading West on I-84 early Wednesday from The NY/PA border...wonder where the coldest section will be on the 84, then 80 route across the Country?

I never have driven the route during the cold months.

Just hoping the Lake Effect Snow Machine is not in full cry!

Any advice is much appreciated!!

Ed

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 12, 2016 by DocH
spelling!!

[dripley]

I am guessing the ball is the rollover ball. It plugs filler neck if you roll over. I have never seen one though so I could be wrong.

 

I cant give you any advice on a winter fuel additive. I have never had to use any. 

[01cummins4ever]

I will use the Power Service that comes in the white bottle, but that's only when in temps lower than -15 or colder. Other than that I don't use any cold weather additives, just the basic 2 stroke.

With your route I don't think that will be a concern this time of year. Usually winter blend fuel and your canister heater should be sufficient .

[DocH]

Thanks Guys!!

Makes sense RE a rollover device!!

One has to wish that more things were so straight forward  and functional with Vehicles!!

i'm thinking that the diesel flowing thru the return line should have a bit of warmth to it as well...

 

I really appreciate the replies Gentleman!!

Ed

[notlimah]

As soon as my 2 stroke supply runs out I'm switching to opti-lube summer blend. You could always check out the additives sticky and choose whichever you like.