New Cummins owner - Intro and beating the dead horse on fuel delivery

[jokra]

Good afternoon! I'm brand new to the forums here, and brand new to the diesel world. This site looks like the best community of 2nd gen Cummins addicts I could find anywhere, so I am honored to join and learn from you, and hopefully one day contribute to helping others as well.

 

Hopefully this is an appropriate place for an introduction, I really enjoy reading the intros from some of you and learning about how your trucks are setup, and their history, so here's a shortened version of mine:

I bought this 2001.5 from a family member who bought it brand new. He purposefully waited until the 2001.5 version to get the disc brakes in back. It has always been meticulously maintained, and was completely stock when I got it. Well, other than driving better than when it was new. Quite a bit of time was put into getting the steering right, I don't know what exactly it has up front that is different than stock, but I can see one of the steering "kits" up there. Whatever it is works, because it drives straighter and with much less steering play than my dad's 99 half ton Ram. This one is also a little unique in that it has the plow-prep package, which I was told includes stiffer springs in front, and the camper package so it has an extra leaf spring in back. So it sits quite a bit taller than others I've been next to, and rides like an oak tree. Actually, it rides much better with an oak tree sitting in the back.

 

I haven't done much to it. A buddy owed me a favor and installed a 2" coil spacer to level out the front, at the same time we put in Bilstein 5100s. Just the front for now, I have a set for the rear on order but haven't gotten them yet. I also removed the turbo silencer ring because I was new to diesel and excited to whistle, and of course youtube told me that would make it whistle! As you all know, removing that ring does absolutely nothing to how loud you hear the turbo, at least to my ear, so I also installed a BHAF (not just for the whistle). I can't remember for sure as this was last summer, but I am pretty sure the motivation for the BHAF came from Mopar1973Man himself, before I knew how famous you were in this sector. I then showed my dad what I had done and mentioned something about "wonder if I should put a heat shield on that" - and the next thing I knew he had made me one, out of diamond plate. You can see that in one of the pics.

 

Otherwise it's all stock. Always had FleetGuard filters, oil always changed every 5k, it's never even seen the inside of a car wash, always washed by hand. I'll try my best to maintain it as well as he did, but it's winter now and my garage isn't heated, so that last one may have to change.

 

She likes to haul firewood. Oh, and you can see the Cummins sticker on the back, which of course adds 80hp at the wheels, what I've been told. ;)

 

And the fact that it's stock is the reason I ended up on your site and why I wanted to post this message in the first place. Fuel delivery. The good, the bad, and the ugly. The history on my truck is that around 80k the lift pump was replaced with the in-tank by a dealer. They did this just because he had read that they were a common problem and wanted to make it "right" (what they considered to be right at the same, this was in 2008 or so). 100 miles after replacing the lift pump with the in-tank, the VP44 died. I assume the old lift pump was actually bad and the replacement put the VP over the edge. So it got a brand new VP44 from the dealer as well. I just rolled over 154k with it, and the more I read the more I worry. So I got gauges. And found I only have about 8psi idle, and if I stomp on it I can dip it below 5.

 

I didn't want to create a new forum post to cover information that already exists in so many posts already, and so I searched your forums for anything fuel related, and I read ALL of them. And I thought I had decided on what I was going to do - FASS 150 titanium with a Draw Straw V, until I saw someone mention a Fuel Boss. Then I saw someone else say Fuel Boss, then it seemed like every post I read had at least one comment in it about the Fuel Boss! Lol. So I'm hoping to get a little further insight there. FASS vs Fuel Boss - ideas? Good, bad, indifferent? One consideration is that it sounds like some are using the Fuel Boss with no electric pump whatsoever. Over the long haul, will that be hard on the VP44 to be pulling its own fuel during startup? What if I do something like install a Fuel Boss hooked to a Beans sump...? That way I could leave my in-tank stock pump in place, since it still works? But if I do that, I'm confused as to how I would plumb it properly, since I cannot plumb the T from the Fuel Boss into the in-tank pump, they would be pulling from separate fuel sources. Would that even work? I am not opposed to going FASS+DrawStraw, though I'm not super excited about dropping the tank just because I've never done it before. But if I can make Fuel Boss+Beans Sump workable, it's possible I could get all this working without even having to touch the top of the fuel tank...? Let me know if you see holes in my theory, because I'm sure I'm missing something important that will leave me stuck.

 

Thank you so much, and it's great to be part of this group!

[Me78569]

clean truck, looks like you will fit in well.  welcome

[01cummins4ever]

nice truck, looks well preserved. glad to see another shortbed with auto trans. Now I'm not the only one. (LOL)

 

I'm sure you will get some good feedback on your fuel system for they both are good systems whichever one you decide to go with, the important thing is that your getting it done before another dead VP.   welcome

[JAG1]

I think with the Fuel boss you cannot have a pre filter before the lift pump. I'm not sure but I think you can put one on after.

 

I like water separating filter before an electric lift pump to stop sediment. Fass may come with one. The most important three things is to be above 14 psi all the time, to filter out any water droplets to save injectors and keep the factory filter to help the VP get even cleaner fuel.

 

Have you read anything about scoring value test results in the fuel yet? You might agree like most the need for 2 cycle oil in the fuel.

 

The Beans diesel sump, I have decided against  because it is not legal to draw fuel from the bottom of the fuel tank.

[jokra]

@01cummins4ever Sometimes I wish I had the long box for hauling stuff, but I just love the look of the short box. It's the right ratio of truck to box for my eyes. The 2nd gen 2500 extended cab short box is my ultimate favorite truck of all time. If I could pick any new truck ever made, I think it would be one of these, brand new. By the way, your response is exactly the reason I love these forums. I was like "I don't remember saying anything about it being an automatic" - then I noticed the little yellow dipstick in the one picture  the level of detail you guys catch and the knowledge you have is awesome. If we're wishing for things, I may choose the 6 speed though. Had to rebuild the auto right after I got it. But even with a band cracked 3/4 of the way through, she still pulled herself 45 miles to the shop. It's got a shift kit and bigger converter this time around. If only Cummins made the motor AND the tranny...

@JAG1 Good point on not having the separator with the Fuel Boss, that is a plus of the electrics (though it's also a negative that you have ongoing maintenance costs for filters I suppose). 

 

I have not read anything technical yet on using 2 cycle oil, but I have seen quite a few people post about using it. I have also heard some of these trucks that run way quieter than others, and always wondered why. I get the overall impression that adding 2 stroke to every tank is a good thing? Somewhere around 1 ounce per gallon of fuel? Does it matter what kind of oil? I would definitely like to try that as long as I've got the details right. I don't mind putting a little extra money in her if it means she'll last longer. I would love to see 300-400k numbers some day (or double that!) but my current work arrangements only have me driving it about 5k per year, so chances are Michigan salt will eat the rest of the truck away long before the Cummins dies. 

 

Is it not legal to draw fuel from the bottom anywhere in the US? Or is that an inspection thing that is state specific? We don't have any inspections here thank goodness. Most of the Cummins you see around here have 48" stacks and you just have to guess at what the truck actually looks like because you can't see it through the black smoke ;) I'm exaggerating a little of course, but not much...

[dripley]

Welcome Jokra. Sure is good looking truck you got there. I have been kidding MM about his purple truck and now I guess someone else is going to say Maroon not purple. I am a long bed man and always will be. But I say to each his own. If you find the 2' of bed you lost, I might add it to mine. 2 stroke will be good for you. 1 oz per gallon and use TCW3. It is ashless and thats what you want. Wally world Super tech is good and reasonbly priced. There are some other product out there that work well also. Should be in the articles section as to what. Your VP will love you for using one or the other I personally run an Air Dog electric and am very satisfied with how it works. If you dont mind getting dirty, dropping the tank is not that big a deal, just run the tank low before you do it. Fuel Boss and electric both work nicely, just never used the fuel boss. 

 I am trying  to say to much in a welcome post, just a little jealous of your truck. 390k+ on mine and it looks nothing like yours. Strap 15k on the back and we might see who does the best. Welcome!!!!

[jokra]

@dripley Thanks for the kind words! I love it, just hope it loves me back for a long time to come. ;)

 

I am pretty used to taking flack for the short box already. Anytime a family member needs something hauled I hear things like "we may need to rent a bigger one, I'm not sure it'll fit in Jordan's little bed" or my dad's favorite "let me know when you get a real truck" (his 1500 is an 8' box which apparently wins the day)

 

As for the color, I have the window sticker still in the glove box. I'd have to walk out there to double check, but I'm pretty sure the color code is "Beast Mode Red" -- not "purple". But alas, I've been ribbed about this numerous times as well...usually by Chevy drivers, to which my only response is to pull them out of the ditch or tow them home. 

[dripley]

@jokra I dare your Dad to strap 15k to the 1500 and drive off in it. You might have a short bed, but it will. I have not ever  been able to resist the "missing 2' of bed" comment. Just me. 

 As far as the color, "Beast Mode Red" ought shut anybody up. It will me. That's pretty Manly!!!! Are you seeing this Mikey?

 Show your truck some love and it will love you back. You have come to the right place to find that. We do have a little different opinions on how to do that from man to man, but it all seems to work.

[01cummins4ever]

1 hour ago, jokra said:

@dripley

I am pretty used to taking flack for the short box already.

you can laugh at the LWB. trucks when they are doing a 9 point turn on a narrow mountain road.

 

Ive been pulling my 5 th wheel since 2006 and only had to use the slider a couple of times, and those were when I was trying to jackknife the trailer into a tight spot.

As far as the auto goes, it really sucks on hold back power on the steeper grades, but if it were a perfect world I guess we would all have 6 speeds. but thats what I got so I just live with it. An exhaust brake is in the future though.

[dripley]

8 hours ago, 01cummins4ever said:

you can laugh at the LWB. trucks when they are doing a 9 point turn on a narrow mountain road.

 

Ive been pulling my 5 th wheel since 2006 and only had to use the slider a couple of times, and those were when I was trying to jackknife the trailer into a tight spot.

As far as the auto goes, it really sucks on hold back power on the steeper grades, but if it were a perfect world I guess we would all have 6 speeds. but thats what I got so I just live with it. An exhaust brake is in the future though.

My long bed will actually make a 3 point road turn on two lane road. A two wheel drive is another story though. Driver ability helps too.

Exhaust brakes, while pricey, are worth every penny. It is perhaps the best mod I have done to my truck for DD and towing. 

[Hawkez]

I have the fuel boss and I really like it.  I have had zero problems with it.  I liked the idea of it being mechanical and also keeping my stock carter pump that is mounted to the block.  I don't know if I would run the fuel boss without the stock pump, It would be difficult to prime.  Call Richard and GDP and ask what options you would have running a Fuel Boss.  The lack of options or extra cost may help you decide what route you go. 

I'll second wal-marts 2 cyc oil.  I usually pay $12 a gallon and I try to keep it around 1 o per gallon, sometimes I go over and sometimes under. 

You may want to consider a larger diameter fuel supply line.  I went with 3/8" but others swear by 1/2", the idea is to decrease the fuel pressure drop.  With my set up and don't see any dips in pressure so I am happy with what I have.  Also this will be your chance of eliminating the restrictive banjo bolts. 

 

There is always something to fix or replace.  Good luck.

[CUMMINSDIESELPWR]

welcome! and purdy truck there!  as far as fuel....

 

i had a raptor 150 and after 3 years it died on me. the last year of its life it wouldnt maintain fuel psi and i had enough. I dropped the coin on a fuel boss, spent a day installing and getting it working. (make sure nothing gets in the lines that can keep the check valve open)

 

im running on 5+ years i think on the fuel boss, original belt with ZERO issues. I dont even think about fuel anymore as i know its always there. i do have to change the fuel psi sender as its getting old but the fuel boss stays around 24psi no matter what throttle input i give it.

 

its simple, two moving parts with a belt that if properly set up (slack in the belt) it will run for decades. the owner of the fuel boss has the same belt on his original pump well over 200,000 miles (5 years ago) im sure he is over 300,000 now...

 

fuel boss all the way for reliability!

[jokra]

@CUMMINSDIESELPWR Thanks for the input! I'm hearing more and more good about the Fuel Boss. If I had an on-block factory pump that still worked, I think I'd be sold by now. Is that the way yours is setup? Or do you run just the Fuel Boss with no other pump for starting and priming? I'm curious if anyone has the Fuel Boss with the in-tank pump from Chrysler. Would be interesting to find out whether or not those two can co-exist. I have some ideas about how I might be able to make that work, but not sure how it plays out in real life.

[dripley]

I dont know about the Fuel boss but am curious as to what fuel pressures you are seeing with that in tank pump? Mine was pretty useless not long after it was installed.

[jokra]

My pressure goes from "bad" at idle to "terrible" when I press the go-pedal. So I've been accelerating very slowly and only driving it when necessary until I get the parts. Fortunately I work from home most of the time and don't HAVE to drive it very often.

 

About 9psi idle, normally about 7psi when accelerating slowly and cruising, but if I accelerate hard I can make it dip below 5 if I want to.

 

Now, as a sidenote, I was talking to a neighbor recently who has been a diesel mechanic (school buses) for almost his whole life. He said they have had many motors over the years with various Bosch injection pumps, and he said as long as you have 2psi moving to it, he has never seen any regular problems because of lack of fuel pressure. I know that directly conflicts with what everyone says about these VP44s, but that was his experience. He wasn't working with the Dodge interpretation of the setup, obviously, so maybe that makes all the difference.

 

I also have another neighbor with a 99 3500 CTD that just rolled over 300k. I asked him a couple weeks ago what he did for his lift pump and he said "what lift pump?" 

 

So clearly there are some cases of not doing a lick of different from the factory setup, and it lasting a really long time.

 

But...I don't want to risk it. ;)

Edited January 9, 2017 by jokra

[Mopar1973Man]

Another twin MAROON truck (Not purple!)... 

 

Fuel pressure that is optimal is to be 14-20 PSI (Unofficial). This is what most have adopted for normal fuel pressure range. This ensures no matter what there is constant return fuel for cooling and lubrication purpose. As soon as the fuel pressure is in the 10-14 PSI bracket you start to lose the return flow. 10 PSI or lower the overflow valve is shut and no return flow will occur. The 2 cycle oil at 128:1 ratio is highly suggested for you because of the lack of return flow and low pressures. 

 

Myself I'm at 229k miles on my VP44 and still getting low 20's for MPG in the dead of winter and plan on reaching 300k with this pump. 

[Hawkez]

2 hours ago, jokra said:

I also have another neighbor with a 99 3500 CTD that just rolled over 300k. I asked him a couple weeks ago what he did for his lift pump and he said "what lift pump?" 

I think most people can point out a case where that has happened.  I have an uncle with an '01, completely stock, changes the filters when the motor becomes starved for fuel, works it hard on the ranch and it is running smooth with no IP problems.  He has no idea what his fuel pressure is.  I lost my VP44 at 120K.  The previous owner kept it stock and never had any issues.  I bought it just after it rolled over 100K and put a Fuel Boss on, started feeding it 2 cycle oil, monitored the pressure and then it left me stranded.  It seems there are exceptions to every rule.  When I was shopping for a VP44 there were disclaimers that warranties on new IPs may not be honored if you are running a stock lift pump.

 

I guess you gotta do whatever you are comfortable with and what the wallet will let you do. 

[jokra]

@Mopar1973Man Thanks! That is the info that I had surmised after reading through all the posts, but it's nice to see the numbers laid out to know exactly where I stand. My PSI numbers have likely been the same numbers for the past 75k, which is when it got the in-tank pump and a new VP44. So I'm partly scared that replacing the lift pump at this point will cause the VP to choke again, but I know that if I leave it and drive it, I'll end up toasting both for sure, so I'd like to make it right asap.

 

As for the color - I'll admit that in certain light it looks purplish. But as I told dripley earlier I checked the window sticker and it says "Beast Mode Red", and ain't nobody gonna tell me otherwise ;)

[Mopar1973Man]

2 minutes ago, jokra said:

But as I told dripley earlier I checked the window sticker and it says "Beast Mode Red", and ain't nobody gonna tell me otherwise ;)

 

 

 Got my vote... These truck are a beast. 

 

As for the lift pump start doing your research on lift pumps. Also, do your study work on where to install it just because most mount to the frame doesn't mean its a good spot either. Consider your usage and where you travel how about dirt roads? Is the pump and filters going to be in the damage path of the front tires throwing debris at the pump and filters?

[jokra]

That is a great point. I do not typically see dirt roads, but do have a quarter mile of gravel driveway and it is amazing the amount of large stones my new tires pick up. Every time I leave the driveway I hear them pinging off the side steps constantly until I hit about 30mph.

 

So many choices.  I do plan to at least call GDP and ask what kind of experience he has with people running a Fuel Boss alongside the in-tank pump. I imagine the plumbing would be more complicated than with a block-mounted pump, but it's what I've got to work with.