Testing Injector Pop Pressure in the real world

[Mopar1973Man]

30 minutes ago, dieselautopower said:

300-314BAR is Bosch spec for the injectors on a VP44 Dodge.  315BAR is not going to be much change.

 

1 Bar is 14.5038 PSI.

[Me78569]

1 hour ago, pepsi71ocean said:

Nick, I was talking to Mike, and I was thinking of 315 Bar on my 100hp injectors. What are your thoughts? 

 

Bear in mind I still have an S03, and I'm willing to play to see if I can get this smoke under control. 

I doubt you will notice any difference.  Duration commands causes %95 of the smoke.

 

Time for new tuning.  After I logged the s03 putting timing at 17* and holding I officially disregard the s03.

[pepsi71ocean]

6 hours ago, Me78569 said:

I doubt you will notice any difference.  Duration commands causes %95 of the smoke.

 

Time for new tuning.  After I logged the s03 putting timing at 17* and holding I officially disregard the s03.

When you say disregarded you mean shelved? I was talking to Mike about the touch, but I'm wondering if setting them higher may help with smoke control. 

 

Maybe higher more like 320 so that they settle down at 310?

 

I did talk to a injector ship that is local to me that is willing to let me watch the atomazion and setting the new pop. They are a set of dap injectors, and if this shop didn't say they would have them back in the same day then I would have sent them out 

[Me78569]

The S03 tuning does not offer good tuning.   Stock injectors maybe for fueling it is ok, but the timing tuning is better left to stock for any application other than peak torque on a dyno at 1800 rpm or cruise state.  I personally liked the timing curve of OEM better when running a higher SW level.

 

 

Going to 330 bar helped for smoke, but your efforts are better left to tuning rather than pop.     

 

 

If you want smoke control get better tuning.

[Mopar1973Man]

@pepsi71ocean has a few things against him...

• Smarty S-03
• Low stall torque converter
• +100HP injectors

I agree, the Smarty S-03 programmer isn't designed for +100HP injectors. Then toss in the low stall converter and making the problem worse. The only thing I can figure is the injectors might be a little soggy and down in pop pressure and the re-pop might help some for clean up and MPG.

 

He could go two directions either Quadzilla Adrenaline or Smarty Touch. Optional would be change the torque converter for slightly high stall or stock stall to allow for spooling of the turbo.

Edited August 20, 2018 by Mopar1973Man

[Dieselfuture]

On 8/20/2018 at 4:04 PM, pepsi71ocean said:

Maybe higher more like 320 so that they settle down at 310?

That's what I asked dap to set mine to and so far I love it, no smoke at all on idle. My tune starts at 80 now even on my previous tune starting at 86 it was not that smokey but definitely more power then the 75hp I pulled out.

[Dodgeih]

New issue anyone think it could be injectors? 

 

Very randomly during longer idles the truck will will suddenly act like someone did a quick blip to wot..

 

Also after doing stuff that uses more fuel, hard pulls, going fast, passing idiots, While costing in gear slowing down completely off throtle it'll suddenly jerk like it it just got a shot of fuel.. hard to explain i finally got a data log of it tonight but haven't looked to see i caught it or if you can see anything yet

[trreed]

Mine did that this past weekend, but while I was coasting in neutral.  Couldn't put words to what it did at the time but that's exactly it.

Edited August 23, 2018 by trreed

[Dieselfuture]

It's got to be a twin thing 

[Quadzilla Power]

Try to take a data-log of the event so that we can see if there is an errant fueling message. However, its probably an injector thing. Make sure that your filters are clean. 

[trreed]

14 hours ago, Dieselfuture said:

It's got to be a twin thing 

I chalked it up to angry VP and kept going.  

Though, @Dodgeih and I do have the same size injectors. Could be an injector thing.

 

Edited August 23, 2018 by trreed

[pepsi71ocean]

On 8/21/2018 at 10:43 PM, Dieselfuture said:

That's what I asked dap to set mine to and so far I love it, no smoke at all on idle. My tune starts at 80 now even on my previous tune starting at 86 it was not that smokey but definitely more power then the 75hp I pulled out.

How long have you been running these at this pop pressure? I'm really thinking this is the happy medium pressure to test run. 

 

Even with the S03s limitations I have done allot of testing with the S03S to the point where I can get grey smoke and not black. So I assume that means the timing changes are before the smarty locks it.

[Me78569]

Timing always locks at 17.2* if duration is maxed and tps is above 60,70,80 % depending on the T setting in the tune.  

 

Keep in mind that I had starting issues when cold cold when pop was at 350 bar.   330 didn't have the issue as far as I can tell, but it wasn't as cold with the 350 injectors.  

[pepsi71ocean]

2 hours ago, Me78569 said:

Timing always locks at 17.2* if duration is maxed and tps is above 60,70,80 % depending on the T setting in the tune.  

 

Keep in mind that I had starting issues when cold cold when pop was at 350 bar.   330 didn't have the issue as far as I can tell, but it wasn't as cold with the 350 injectors.  

My duration settings were always between 2 and 3, anything higher was to much smoke before the turbo would fire up.

 

To me I noticed that Changing the timing setting and then the SW could produce grey smoke and not black smoke. Also could change how much smoke was produced as well. 

 

I actually thought grey smoke was bad, till I was taking to the injection shop the other day and he was telling me that Changing the pop pressure will change your smoke colors. Which I found odd. 

 

Although he said raising the pressure will effect where in the Piston the fuel hits the bowl. Which is he concern with me raising my pop pressure 

 

I'm mostly courios if raising the pop pressure a bit would effect that low end drag smoke I get for a few seconds before the turbo lights. 

[Dieselfuture]

3 hours ago, pepsi71ocean said:

How long have you been running these at this pop pressure? I'm really thinking this is the happy medium pressure to test run. 

Only for few hundred miles, so yes I can't speak for long term. 

17 minutes ago, pepsi71ocean said:

Although he said raising the pressure will effect where in the Piston the fuel hits the bowl. Which is he concern with me raising my pop pressure 

 

This is what my pattern look like with regular Pop pressure, so increasing it a little bit should make it fire later and put it more in the bowl

[Dodgeih]

5 hours ago, Quadzilla Power said:

Try to take a data-log of the event so that we can see if there is an errant fueling message. However, its probably an injector thing. Make sure that your filters are clean. 

I have one I just have not looked at it to see if there is any evidence of what happened. I will not have time to stand through it probably for a couple more days. I can attach it and if someone's wanting to look it is right towards the end of the data log. As I'm coasting. I was going about 90 mile an hour before and was coasting to a stop sign when it happened.... 

surge.csv

[Me78569]

going from 305 bar to 330 bar gave the same effect of dropping duration by %2-%4 without actually lowering fueling. 

 

Dunno how the fuel placement would be noticably different.   Gotta remember hte vp might pop injectors at 305 bar, but peak pressure is WAY higher.  The amount of time difference between 305 bar and 330 bar in terms of when the pop event happens is nominal at best.   

 

 

[pepsi71ocean]

15 hours ago, Me78569 said:

going from 305 bar to 330 bar gave the same effect of dropping duration by %2-%4 without actually lowering fueling. 

 

Dunno how the fuel placement would be noticably different.   Gotta remember hte vp might pop injectors at 305 bar, but peak pressure is WAY higher.  The amount of time difference between 305 bar and 330 bar in terms of when the pop event happens is nominal at best.   

Sounds dumb but I thought DAP injectors where set for 300 bar?

I had to go back and do some digging but that is what I remember they were back in 2013 when I put them into the truck. Since then I have added about 30,000 miles onto the truck and most weren't an easy 30,000 miles either.

Edited August 24, 2018 by pepsi71ocean

[Me78569]

I shoudl say "stock bar"  whatever that is.  

[Mopar1973Man]

5 minutes ago, Me78569 said:

I shoudl say "stock bar"  whatever that is.  

 

310 bar is stock...