Consensus on tapped pump

[portlandareae28]

Is there an overall consensus on tapping the vp?  How does it affect longevity, etc.?

[Mopar1973Man]

Doesn't. I clear 243k miles on a VP44 between Edge Comp and the Quadzilla no harm came to the injection pump. 

 

There is 4 things that kill a VP44...

 

1. Excessive AC noise

2. Poor filtration of the fuel.

3. Low fuel pressure.

4. Low lubricity of the fuel. 

Edited January 9, 2018 by Mopar1973Man

[portlandareae28]

So what is the routine to avoid the big 4?

[Mopar1973Man]

21 minutes ago, Mopar1973Man said:

There is 4 things that kill a VP44...

 

1. Excessive AC noise

2. Poor filtration of the fuel.

3. Low fuel pressure.

4. Low lubricity of the fuel. 

 

1. Test the alternator soon as anything like lock up issues or crazy cruise control is noticed. Don't do any wiring mods but replace the alternator or rebuild with new diode pack.

2. I double stack filters I've got a Donaldson 3um filter on the AirDog 150 and then Fleetguard 10um in the stock can. I can say the 3um passes debris that the Fleetguard 10um picks up. 

3. Fuel pressure gauge and never let the fuel pressure drop below 14 PSI. I've got my ISSPro gauge programmed for 13 PSI to trip the low pressure light.

4. All ULSD sold today is 520 HFRR Bosch requires 420 HFRR to meet standards. So I add 128:1 ratio shot of 2 cycle oil to the fuel. This typically will bring the score down to 380 or less. If you have access to biodiesel in the summer that is down to 220 HFRR score which is good but the high cetane of the biodiesel typically is a bit lower in MPG's just depends on the ratio.

[portlandareae28]

Guess I better start with more fuel pressure.  I see 10-11 on a wot run.

[015point9]

Mopar1973Man

"I double stack filters I've got a Donaldson 3um filter on the AirDog 150 and then Fleetguard 10um in the stock can. I can say the 3um passes debris that the Fleetguard 10um picks up". 

 

That doesn't very good for Donaldson.  I go directly from AD pump to VP44, wondering about adding a filter somewhere.  Not sure what filter to add or where to mount it.  

[notlimah]

If anything you should just run it back through the stock filter. I personally chose to run straight to the VP from my FASS and rely on the fass filtration alone, 3 micron is good enough for me. 

[Dieselfuture]

Same here I'm in mercy of fass, when I got my truck factory filter was already bypassed and po said original owner did it when he replaced vp who knows when, so I deleted it all together. At one point I thought about putting it back in but I like the extra room there too, plus I cut the bracket off that holds the housing to block so I'd have to weld it back. 

[Mopar1973Man]

Stock filter doesn't place any restriction on the fuel system at all. 12 years of rock solid 15-17 PSI between idle to WOT. All these people now pull the stock filter out because it just easier to hook up to the VP44. You lose the fuel heater that you need in northern states, you lose the WIF warning light, you lose the second filtering ability which has proven to me time and time again that the stock filter continues to pick up all the stuff Donaldson keeps passing.  People wonder why the VP44 doesn't last as long. Remember all your lubrication of all those tight tolerance parts and cooling is done strictly by the fuel. So if the fuel has fine debris in it and low lubricity you will shorten the life of the VP44.

 

10um Fleet guard on the left and the 3um Donaldson on the right. My point is if the 3um filter is so good why is a 10um filter still picking up more stuff? Make you think!

Edited January 9, 2018 by Mopar1973Man

[Red Rambler]

Is there an alternative to the Donaldson? A different brand that is 3UM?

[notlimah]

It definitely is curious, but I wouldn’t be so quick to blame the 3um for missing it, especially when it’s impossible to know where the debris is actually coming from. 

 

I would say those numbers do indicate some restriction, I see 18-19 on anything but a really cold day all the time, never below 17. There’s no way it’s going to run fuel through another filter and it not have even the slightest bit of restriction. Not to mention two extra fittings. 

 

How well do you think the fuel heater works with all the extra fuel coming into the basket from an Airdog/FASS opposed to the stock LP?

 

I’m not calling your findings rubbish Mike, just doesn’t make sense to me that the smaller micron filter misses debri that the bigger micron filter catches

[Mopar1973Man]

Donaldson has one of the better ratings. Like you could do a NAPA filter or WIX and the absolute rating is worse. This is why the double stacking of filters started in the 2nd Gens and then continued into 3rd and 4th Gens for the same reason. The tolerances in the common rail injectors won't tolerate the fine debris so double stacking fuel filters continues. This is why I alway keep the stock filter and always order a Big Line kit from Vulcan to keep the filter. 

5 minutes ago, notlimah said:

I’m not calling your findings rubbish Mike, just doesn’t make sense to me that the smaller micron filter misses debri that the bigger micron filter catches

 

This why I continue to keep changing the stock filter over and over again. I've tried Donaldson and Fleetguard and even AirDog filter in a 3um. Always have debris on the 10um stock fleetguard filter. 

 

Stock 10um on the left and fleetgaurd 3um on the right. Again still seeing dirt on the stock filter.

Edited January 9, 2018 by Mopar1973Man

[notlimah]

I understand what you’re sayin Mike, but how does that even happen? How does a smaller micron filter pass up something and a larger micron filter catches it?? That’s what I can’t get around.

[015point9]

What is the smallest clearance in fuel system?  

 

Micron size of 50 is supposed to be size of human hair.  Filters of 10 and 3 etc makes me wonder how anything makes it through filter. 

[Mopar1973Man]

I know 3um will filter white blood cells.

[portlandareae28]

Ok, so my truck has just the upgraded fass  (or air dog can’t remember which) stock replacement pump.  Clearly it’s not enough.  I don’t foresee this truck ever having more than maybe a 75-100hp injector if it even gets that.  Which fuel systems should I be looking at?  I am editing here because I found Mike’s write up that explains it all.  So I believe my pump is the DDRP but I don’t know which version, is there a way to determine this?

Edited January 9, 2018 by portlandareae28
Updated info

[AH64ID]

4 hours ago, Mopar1973Man said:

Stock filter doesn't place any restriction on the fuel system at all. 12 years of rock solid 15-17 PSI between idle to WOT. All these people now pull the stock filter out because it just easier to hook up to the VP44. You lose the fuel heater that you need in northern states, you lose the WIF warning light, you lose the second filtering ability which has proven to me time and time again that the stock filter continues to pick up all the stuff Donaldson keeps passing.  People wonder why the VP44 doesn't last as long. Remember all your lubrication of all those tight tolerance parts and cooling is done strictly by the fuel. So if the fuel has fine debris in it and low lubricity you will shorten the life of the VP44.

 

I highly recommend keeping the stock filter bowl in place as well, but mainly as an additional f/w sep and WIF sensor. The heater is nice but won't do anything to help the filters before it. 

 

The filter that plugs from gelling is always the first unheated filter inline. The wax will plug a 20µ filter in short order, let alone a 3µ one. I run 2 fuel heaters on my first 2 filters and don't worry about the underhood one as the underhood temps are generally higher and I block that side of the engine bay with the winter front. If my 3rd filter were exposed to ambient temps and wind I would heat it. 

 

A clean filter provides no significant restriction. I run 3 filters on my OEM in-tank LP and pressure is the same as without. It does drop in winter with cold fuel but after a while driving with 2 300w fuel heaters it will heat up. 

 

4 hours ago, Mopar1973Man said:

10um Fleet guard on the left and the 3um Donaldson on the right. My point is if the 3um filter is so good why is a 10um filter still picking up more stuff? Make you think!

 

 

3 hours ago, Mopar1973Man said:

Again still seeing dirt on the stock filter.

 

 

You're likely seeing petroleum asphaltenates which are often smaller than 3µ and are from your fuel source. It's hit an miss for me to have any asphalenate on my canister filter, but more often than not I have a little. 

 

A 10µ filter catches 98.7% of particles 10µ and larger. As the size of fuel contaminates decreases the efficancy of the filter decreases, but a 10µ filter will catch some particles that are 2µ and likewise a 3µ filter will pass some particles that are 2µ.

 

The Donaldson 3µ filter is about as good as it gets, with only the Fleetguard NanNet filters being better, IMHO. The NanoNet FF5814 is the replacement for the P551313, and the FF5817 is the replacement for the P551315. 

 

What fleetguard is that @Mopar1973Man

 

12 minutes ago, portlandareae28 said:

Ok, so my truck has just the upgraded fass  (or air dog can’t remember which) stock replacement pump.  Clearly it’s not enough.  I don’t foresee this truck ever having more than maybe a 75-100hp injector if it even gets that.  Which fuel systems should I be looking at?  I am editing here because I found Mike’s write up that explains it all.  So I believe my pump is the DDRP but I don’t know which version, is there a way to determine this?

 

Look to see if the pressure is adjustable. Either of those standalone pumps can move more than enough fuel to keep pressure where it should be. 

Edited January 9, 2018 by AH64ID

[015point9]

 

Going through med problems with wife, I find  blood work is so interesting.  I always ask to keep the rubber strap they use to around arm to puff up the blood brains.  They make a good rubber washer, if you have a bolt that wiggles loose now and then.  Not on engine but like on glove box that sqeaks.  

 

When reading about filtration if filter is 95 or 98.5 effective the remaining amount goes somewhere.  So Yes, if 95 percent gets filtered the remaining 5 percent could get trapped in bigger 10 um (in this case) or through engine, or maybe sent back to fuel tank through return line, to start process all over again.  Just my take on filters that is from reading.  Not any hands on.  

[portlandareae28]

Seems I should also be learning what fuel lines are in the truck.  Even with DDRP should I be going to 1/2”?  And is that from pump to stock canister and from the canister to the vp?

[AH64ID]

20 minutes ago, portlandareae28 said:

Seems I should also be learning what fuel lines are in the truck.  Even with DDRP should I be going to 1/2”?  And is that from pump to stock canister and from the canister to the vp?

 

I personally don't think so. 3/8" is plenty for 100 GPH. 

 

You can change the pressure spring on a DDRP to get higher pressure.