Lift Pump Question

[Mopar1973Man]

7 hours ago, jlbayes said:

Air separation is a HUGE farce that should not be carried into any decision for a fuel system. Stop it.

 

I'll leave it alone and let it go. There is more to be said about it. I'll agree that he's right it is a farce to a degree but what I like about it he's not considered one bit...

Edited February 23, 2018 by Mopar1973Man

[dripley]

8 hours ago, jlbayes said:

Air separation is a HUGE farce that should not be carried into any decision for a fuel system. Stop it.

 

1 hour ago, Dieselfuture said:

 

1 hour ago, Mopar1973Man said:

 

I'll leave it alone and let it go. There is more to be said about it. I'll agree that he's right it is a farce to a degree but what I like about it he's not considered one bit...

Alright my 7 hour ride home is over. I will bring it up. What is the farce, I drank the cool aid. I do however believe that it is a benefit. And the pot is 

[Ben]

Does no where west of the Missouri have #1 fuel?

 

all of these issues with gelling boggle my mind. 

 

I had had my best fuel pressures in the winter due to a 50% cut of number 1. 

 

The only blend I trust is the one i do of 50:50 1 and 2.  

 

And if knew hardcore subzeros were coming I filled with straight#1.    

 

And loaded a healthy dose of 2 

stroke.

 

[01cummins4ever]

Most run of the mill filling stations around here use around 25% #1 which is good to about -15f. That’s why when I know it’s going to get colder than that I resort to using the white bottle. 

Where I work they order in 50/50 blend for our heavy equipment but it’s dyed off road diesel and even if I could run it legally I would not run it in my dodge or semi just because Ive seen what comes out of the bottom of those bulk tanks 

 

Personally I would never run straight # 1, Being it is a very dry fuel with little lubrication It’s just like filling your tank with kerosine because that’s what it is . It would be pretty harsh on a vp44 and the injectors.

[Dieselfuture]

49 minutes ago, 01cummins4ever said:

Personally I would never run straight # 1

Why not if it's double dosed with 2 cycle 

[01cummins4ever]

1 hour ago, Dieselfuture said:

Why not if it's double dosed with 2 cycle 

Double the dose or even quadruple   I don’t know.   why take the chance 

[Mopar1973Man]

Remember 50:1 ratio small 2 cycle engine can run up 10,000 RPM without damage. 128:1 ratio should cover a majority of all diesel fuel. #1 diesel would be a different animal and would lean towards a richer oil mixture. Even 64:1 would be 2 ounces of oil to 1 gallon of fuel.

Edited February 24, 2018 by Mopar1973Man

[Marcus2000monster]

Alrighty guys Inmade the right move! I bought a lightly used Fass 150 from @trreed that had 25k miles on it. Thanks for the suggestions!

[trreed]

On 2/23/2018 at 3:27 PM, Mopar1973Man said:

 

I'll leave it alone and let it go. There is more to be said about it. I'll agree that he's right it is a farce to a degree but what I like about it he's not considered one bit...

Mike I'm wondering about this too.  What do you like about it?

[Marcus2000monster]

12 minutes ago, trreed said:

Mike I'm wondering about this too.  What do you like about it?

I too am wondering about this. I barely glnced at all the posts in this thread recently since I’ve been so busy and I didn’t catch all that was said about it...

Would one of you write an article on it?

[Mopar1973Man]

38 minutes ago, trreed said:

What do you like about it?

 

Basically since my AirDog returns more fuel to the tank than actually delivers this means that the fuel is polished by the AirDog making several passes through the filter. The other part is since I'm running a old school draw straw when the pump actual does suck in air and lose prime that air bubble is not passed on to the engine. Being I do use my truck in offroad conditions and slooshing fuel is common and picking up air is also common. 

 

The part I'm not worried about is the fine air that AirDog and FASS pride their selves on. That is why I would agree on @jlbayes comment but at the same time disagree about it too because there is other bonuses that performance guys don't look at that longevity guys do look at.

[jlbayes]

If aeration were a problem we would see it in the last 100 years of diesel engines. We do not. Regardless of what type of low pressure system is used. Gravity, pressure or vacuum.

 

That excessive pumping of fuel does nothing but warm the fuel. Airdog and fass both do this to keep the motors cool. It is part of the reason they rate their pumps so ridiculously.

[Mopar1973Man]

Just now, jlbayes said:

If aeration were a problem we would see it in the last 100 years of diesel engines. We do not. Regardless of what type of low pressure system is used. Gravity, pressure or vacuum.

 

True, I won't argue that...

 

1 minute ago, jlbayes said:

That excessive pumping of fuel does nothing but warm the fuel. Airdog and fass both do this to keep the motors cool. It is part of the reason they rate their pumps so ridiculously.

 

That I've got a hard time believing, being the fuel doesn't come in contact with the pump motor at all. The pump motor is completely isolated from the fuel. Now the old Stock Carter yes this would be true because the motor is actually part of the bypass circuit for pressure regulation. 

[trreed]

A lot of us use return style fuel systems.  Our components just happen to be spread out instead of in one package.  So our systems still have the same functionality.  And the pump's heat will be absorbed by conduction into the fuel, cooling the motor. 

Edited February 26, 2018 by trreed

[dripley]

Glad to see the adressed. It would seem to be this issue as with others does not have a one size fits all answer. So i for one will remain happy with what i have. My curiosity got the best me but still wanted to hear both sides.

[Marcus2000monster]

Anyone have a pic of the stock fuel return line location? I think I know which one it is but would be nice if someone could verify

[trreed]

Where on the truck are you talking about?  If it's on the basket, the return is the smaller line that is closer to the cab.

[Mopar1973Man]

2 hours ago, trreed said:

the pump's heat will be absorbed by conduction into the fuel, cooling the motor.

 

I've got a Raptor pump sitting on my shelf I can tell you that pump motor will shed most of its heat into the air. Very little into the fuel because of how the pump is designed. Yes I've taken it apart to see what failed. This particular pump had the shaft seal failure that flooded the motor with diesel fuel. Being the Raptop motor is the very same motor used on a AirDog I'm 99% sure there is going to be little heat convection to the fuel. 

 

Second off to get a motor hot you would have to load it up to draw serious amp draw. I doubt if these pumps draw even 10 amps. More amp drawing on the lectrical system the more heat created. Since voltage is pretty stable at 13.5 to 14.5 typically the only thing that will change watts (heat) is amps. The only way to have amps is excessive loading...

 

watts = volts x amps

 

 

[wh82]

On 2/14/2018 at 7:52 AM, Mopar1973Man said:

When my AirDog dies I'll go back to AirDog again risky? Maybe...

 

*sigh this is what has kept me from upgrading to FASS or AirDog... both of them have their warranty process as a cross-ship but if I'm thousands of miles away from home I don't want to sit and wait for the shipping, I want to be able to go to a store and buy a new one. And of course a spare would be pricey.

 

Has anyone done what I was reading about recently where you add a SUMP.. definitely beans single hole single o-ring, the fass one has like 20 screw holes which seems like a leak waiting to happen... then a AirDog or FASS up to a ball valve and a T feeding into the stock canister filter/heater?

 

I'm thinking that is the route I want to try so my stock system is still there, just turned off at the ball valve and the harness disconnected because its connected to the better pump, and if anything should ever happen I could at least move the harness back to the stock pump and flip the 2 valves to the opposite positions and be back up and running.. Thoughts?

[Marcus2000monster]

2 hours ago, trreed said:

Where on the truck are you talking about?  If it's on the basket, the return is the smaller line that is closer to the cab.

I found it! It was right there beside the fuel inlet I just didn’t realize that it was the return line. I assume that you just ditch both inlet and return lines?