The Future of Trucks

[KATOOM]

There are many many reasons I think electric vehicles are a phase.  No pun...

 

Environmentalism is acting like electric vehicles are superior to combustion engines but in reality they're overly complicated and problematic and come with their own fair share of issues just like any other propulsion system.

 

Plus, its asinine to believe electric vehicles will ever save the world from carbon fuel when things like trains, ships, and airplanes, etc... will run the status quo probably forever.  Yeah, the same jumbo jet airliner which burns 1 gallon of fuel ever SECOND, and the same tanker ship which burns about 1 gallon of fuel EVERY 30 FEET while crossing the ocean...!!!  So please, tell me again how electric cars are going to save us?  LOL...

 

I'm also not ignorant enough to think that electric motors wont likely remain a contestant in the auto industry for many years, but to insinuate everything else will fade away as electric motors dominate is completely overlooking all other variables in an economic aspect, and money driven world.  Remember, even though liberalism will try to say otherwise, the globe isnt run with Star Trek socialism.  People still do things to make money.

Edited July 5, 2018 by KATOOM

[Me78569]

personally I do not care about the "Environmentalism" side of it.  I care about how it will operate on the road.

 

Just looking at how an electric motor works it is clear to see, IF battery density increases and charge times decrease, that a electric truck would tow circles around the diesel version.  

 

No gears, broad rpm band, beautiful torque at idle, regen braking, far better efficency ratio due to heat loss, better output per fuel energy density.  

 

I did the math on a elecrtic car to go to and from work.  It would cost me ~1/6 what it does with by ford focus to drive to and from work if I charge at my house. 

 

 

as for solar roof, it would not be something everyone just jumps to out of the blue.  If the roof needs replacing then you pony up the %50 difference and do it.    Point being is it just makes sense to generate power on the roofs of houses.

Edited July 5, 2018 by Me78569

[KATOOM]

I cant comment on your calculations.....but I have friends/family who've tried (and continue to try) the electric car hype.  After sitting down and crunching hard numbers involving fuel costs, electricity bills, charge times, tires, overall wear and tear, etc...  The figures concluded that their electric cars were about equivalent to driving a 60-70 mpg car.

 

Thats a good thing yes, but just noting that of the few cars we were using in those calculations, one of them was too small to take their family anywhere, and the other had a distance range low enough that it kept them from taking it anywhere but to and from work.  Most people cant afford specialty vehicles.  Most people use their one or two vehicles for everything they do...

 

I remember when crew cab trucks became immensely popular back in the late 80's early 90's.  And...the main reason they became so popular was because people were wanting "versatility".  A vehicle roomy enough that they could take the kids to school, get groceries, go to work, take on vacation, throw the dogs in the back, and still pull the family boat to the lake.  People still want that too which is why Ford is no longer making passenger "cars" other than the Mustang.

[Me78569]

Agree on all points, my only point was when it comes to the cost per gallon vs mpg of the focus ( which is only to and from work use) vs the cost per kwh and range per charge the electric car is significantly better during day to day use.  

 

The electric car would not fill the role of the 4th gen that we ordered.  I am not saying it would.

 

 

I am not going to run out and buy a electric car, because the upfront cost vs the cheap ford focus does not make sense.  When the ford finally dies and I am forced to replace it I will be looking for a purely electric car to take it's place.

[AH64ID]

Personally I'd like to see more diesel hybrids. A 1 cyl turbo diesel hybrid would put any gas hybrid to shame in terms of efficiency and longevity. If the costs get to where it's reasonable I wouldn't mind having something as a DD, but nothing I'd take likely ever take on the highway and certainly never back woods. 

 

There are too many people who don't have the ability to charge for days or weeks at a time, which is why I don't think we'll ever be free of fossil fuels for pickups and work vehicles, but the inner city stuff could defiantly take advantage of progressing technology. 

[015point9]

Last month Trying to google up some info on wife's crv and ended up on a .UK web forum.  There was a diesel section for crv's.  Seems after you translate from liters to gallons they get better mileage.  Can't get small diesel in U.S. though.  I wonder why not?

[Mopar1973Man]

13 hours ago, AH64ID said:

There are too many people who don't have the ability to charge for days or weeks at a time, which is why I don't think we'll ever be free of fossil fuels for pickups and work vehicles, but the inner city stuff could defiantly take advantage of progressing technology.

 

I totally agree with that. 

13 hours ago, AH64ID said:

Personally I'd like to see more diesel hybrids. A 1 cyl turbo diesel hybrid would put any gas hybrid to shame in terms of efficiency and longevity. If the costs get to where it's reasonable I wouldn't mind having something as a DD

 

I guess you are thinking like a train concept. 1 cylinder diesel engine driving an electric generator. Back charging batteries and also driving the vehicle as well. 

 

[Me78569]

That would be pretty cool, however there is some pretty cool technology that looks like it might solve the long charge time issue.     We are alreadying seeing 30 min %80 charge times and it is only going to get better.

 

 

I just droll at the thought of regen brakes while towing.   I could likely get a full charge coming down i70 into denver lol I read it is ~%75 efficent in the current technologies.  Brake pad life would be extended by 5x.  

 

Edited July 7, 2018 by Me78569

[dripley]

42 minutes ago, Me78569 said:

 

 

 

I just droll at the thought of regen brakes while towing.   I could likely get a full charge coming down i70 into denver lol I read it is ~%75 efficent in the current technologies.  Brake pad life would be extended by 5x.  

 

 

Kind of like an energy producing exhaust brake.

 

1 hour ago, Mopar1973Man said:

 

 

 

I guess you are thinking like a train concept. 1 cylinder diesel engine driving an electric generator. Back charging batteries and also driving the vehicle as well. 

 

I always wondered why a concept like this would not work on a smaller scale. It has always amazed me how power the locomotives put to the rails.

[KATOOM]

This has crossed my mind many times over the past few years.  I could see why diesel / electric drivetrain systems wouldn't be practical for every day to and from work around town trucks.  Too many load variations.

 

But I actually dont understand why it hasn't been implemented yet into the class 8 trucks....  

[Me78569]

Battery density wasnt high enough to give enough reserve without increasing weight beyond the point of it.

[dripley]

37 minutes ago, Me78569 said:

Battery density wasnt high enough to give enough reserve without increasing weight beyond the point of it.

Diesel/electric locomotives don't rely on batteries though, except starting the diesel engine or am I missing something?

[AH64ID]

53 minutes ago, dripley said:

Diesel/electric locomotives don't rely on batteries though, except starting the diesel engine or am I missing something?

They don’t. It’s just a very efficient way to produce a constant power output. 

 

It might work in Class 8, but without a battery bank I don’t think it would be as good in pickups or cars. 

 

A city bound delivery vehicle with a small 1 cyl diesel generator and a decent battery bank could likely get 10x the fuel economy, or more, of current delivery rigs. It would also do better on maintenance than all the starting and stoping of engines. 

 

It it wouldn’t surprise me to see UPS or FedEx putting some R&D money into the idea. 

[Me78569]

Yep they don't but their load is very static.  

 

You need batteries in a truck because load is always changing and the generator couldn't keep up all the time.

 

Volvo is interoducing electric trash trucks right now.

 

It is going to save a ton of money over paying for fuel.

 

Internal combustion is going to loose.  I read some more articles on the peak car that stomped the record this year.  Apparently they went up slow because the road was wet, they said they could have shaved 30 seconds off the run.  

[AH64ID]

Constant load and zero drivetrain losses... it’s  amazing how’s efficient it is. 

 

 

Electric trash trucks would be impressive! 

[dripley]

I thought y'all were talking about locomotives and not smaller scale. Shrinking the tech to smaller is definitely above my paygrade. Things are changing and it is coming.

[Guest 04Mach1]

11 hours ago, KATOOM said:

This has crossed my mind many times over the past few years.  I could see why diesel / electric drivetrain systems wouldn't be practical for every day to and from work around town trucks.  Too many load variations.

 

But I actually dont understand why it hasn't been implemented yet into the class 8 trucks....  

The diesel electric technology probably hasn't been introduced into anything except locomotives and heavy  machinery due to weight. Class 8 OTR trucks legal GVW is 80,000 lbs. Added weight of the DC generator and traction motor would greatly decrease the load  the truck could legally carry. The load is what the customer pays the truck owner to haul. 

 

For class 8 trucks the trend is going to CNG. We're just waiting for the CNG infrastructure to be developed outside of the major cities. Cummins has invested tons of money into development of CNG engines. Diesel engines have become too problematic with all the EPA mandated pollution control. 

 

A lot of UPS and FedEx fleet is CNG fuel. XPO Logistics LTL was starting to look into CNG when I left the company. Almost all garbage trucks in the Denver Metropolitan area are CNG fuel. I was also starting to notice a lot of RTD buses using CNG in Colorado. I also saw Coca-Cola and PepsiCo trucks using CNG in Denver. Coca-Cola also has some using hybrid technology in their fleet.

[Mopar1973Man]

The whole idea CNG is not going to be out here anytime soon. Too far to truck in the fuel and have storage locations that are forest fireproof. We are just lucky to have diesel fuel out here. When I bought my diesel back in 2002 I was seriously worried about diesel fuel supply being there was only a few stations at the time which now is just a few stations being some have gone out of business or very unreliable. To this day even propane is limited even out here and no you not allowed to pump your propane either. CNG that is going to be a big PITA to bring to an area like this. 

 

Just for fun I still live in an area without cell service for miles. There is people in this area without city power to this day... CNG I highly doubt it will become any real fuel supply out here. 

[Guest 04Mach1]

Infrastructure is going to be the issue with any alternative fuel for transportation. There are just too many rural areas that are decades from being able to support CNG or electric vehicle technology. 

[BIOHMMWV]

I think this will be the future of Diesel for the foreseeable future.

https://www.trucks.com/2017/10/03/cummins-achates-advanced-tech-military-diesel-engine/

 

A design that dates back to around 1890.