16+ more years

[dripley]

8 hours ago, 01cummins4ever said:

You are not pulling a 10,000 to 15000 lb trailer on a daily basis and being 2000 miles away from home puts things in a little different perspective . Just saying that the comfort and peace of mind from a new truck might be worth the cost considering the possibility of differential and transmission failures along with other expensive parts along the way.

 

I still hook up my 01 and do 1000 mile round trips through the mountains without to much worry but that’s just occasionally....well.  um. after what happened to the RV yesterday I don’t know  when that will happen again. I know I wont be taking it hunting next week, more on that in a different post 

There is alot of truth in what you say. If its new and breaks let the dealer worry about. But if it is out of warranty it is yours to deal with. Parts and especially diagnostics are expensive. 2nd gen or 4th gen i dont think it makes a difference other than the 4th  being for mechanical issues, could be fewer. If it is electronic thats where diagnostics could get expensive.

 I just crossed 454k on mine and plan to keep it for now. Excluding apperance i will drop 4 or 5 grand in the next year or so on it to get it back right for the long haul with 3 grand of that on a tranny rebuild. The other stuff i can handle, new head gasket for one. As long as the cylinders look good when I pull the head, I am willing to go that route even if I have to spend a little more. 

  This is a personal choice for me as it will be for you.

Edited October 6, 2018 by dripley

[Mopar1973Man]

Just wait if you buy a new truck. Injectors should be replaced somewhere around 100-150k miles at a cost of $3,500 or so. EGR issues plugging up the intake and grid heaters. DEF system failures where it leave you stuck and unable to drive the truck. Lower MPG's on the newer truck unless you delete it then if you live in a smog state that's not possible. Injector fails for some reason it possible to wipe out pistons and cylinders at the same time costing even more. So far there is nothing on the 3rd or 4th gens I'm happy enough to give up my 2nd Gen. Repairs are still way cheaper on the 2nd gen vs 3rd or 4th gens. Once warranty runs out you better be ready to trade it in. Lifespan on CR engine are much lower than the old 1st or 2nd gens. 

[Killer223]

i have both, old and newerish, 95 with 310K no signs of stopping, i also have early 04 with 260K, again no issues. and i LOVE this truck. it is by far my favorite to drive. and i have a 08 deleted. its a monster.

the 08 is more comfortable to sit in for long road trips. i just took it to upstate NY and back, then a week later took my 04 to Richmond VA. the ergonomics in the 04 are my favorite, love that truck, the seat sucks.and it's new from genos. 

the 04 gets 17-18 mpg,

the 08 gets 18-20 mpg.

the 08 is a towing beast!! and i mean beast, it'll out tow the 04 hands down any day of the week. every one tells me the new trucks are expensive to fix... mine kinda were, 5K trans for the 04, $1200 clutch in the 08. other than that, they have been great trucks.

 

that said, DO NOT go into debt to buy a truck. if you don't have the cash, don't do it, if your house is paid for then maybe, maybe. my house is paid for. so i went into debt to by my 08, 4 year term paying it off in 1/2 that time.

 

you have to think how long and how many miles are you planning on driving the truck?

oh and YOLO!

[Guest 04Mach1]

10 hours ago, 01cummins4ever said:

You are not pulling a 10,000 to 15000 lb trailer on a daily basis and being 2000 miles away from home puts things in a little different perspective . Just saying that the comfort and peace of mind from a new truck might be worth the cost considering the possibility of differential and transmission failures along with other expensive parts along the way.

 

I still hook up my 01 and do 1000 mile round trips through the mountains without to much worry but that’s just occasionally....well.  um. after what happened to the RV yesterday I don’t know  when that will happen again. I know I wont be taking it hunting next week, more on that in a different post 

I would trust a well maintained seasoned truck over a brand new truck that has a lot of gremlins to work out. It's proven today's diesel engines are reliable however the emissions sh--stuff the engines are getting choked with are not reliable. Replacing a 6 pack of common rail injectors is cheap compared to replacing a SCR module. Sure there's the EGR and ATD delete as an option but beware I've seen a ton of engines with windowed blocks from advanced timing and over fueling that many of the ATD and EGR delete tuners such as H&S cause with their canned tunes. Plus deleting is becoming a lot more difficult because of the EPA scrutinizing companies and shops. My shop will no longer delete emissions equipment do to the increasing risk of fines and penalties. We've been considering not even working on trucks that have deleted emissions control devices.

 

As far as a truck lasting 36 years... I see no reason why it wouldn't unless negligence in maintenance. I own a 1978 F150 that has 590,000+ miles. My grandpa bought it new in July of 1978. I inherited it in 1996 as my first vehicle when i got my driver's license. I rebuilt the original 351m engine at 320k miles shortly after my grandpa gave me the truck. I still trust this truck to go anywhere in North America without hesitation. With the manual transmission and 4.56 gears she pulls better than either of Cummins trucks I own too. She ain't purdy since it's a paint horse after body replacement from cancer but she runs strong and has never left me stranded.

 

 

 

 

Edited October 6, 2018 by 04Mach1

[JAG1]

Pretty tight looking old truck.  I can tell you take care of it.

 

Take a second to think what it takes to accumulate the information required to make a truck more reliable. New trucks do not have this advantage. If you know what the weak points are and proactive about fixing them making them immune to trouble that's the best place to be. It a good feeling knowing your rig well enough that your gut tells you when she is ready for another nice long run. It's not hard to feel that way if you know your truck.

[Mopar1973Man]

1 hour ago, 04Mach1 said:

As far as a truck lasting 36 years... I see no reason why it wouldn't unless negligence in maintenance. I own a 1978 F150 that has 590,000+ miles. My grandpa bought it new in July of 1978. I inherited it in 1996 as my first vehicle when i got my driver's license. I rebuilt the original 351m engine at 320k miles shortly after my grandpa gave me the truck. I still trust this truck to go anywhere in North America without hesitation. With the manual transmission and 4.56 gears she pulls better than either of Cummins trucks I own too. She ain't purdy since it's a paint horse after body replacement from cancer but she runs strong and has never left me stranded.

 

Kind of like my 1973 Dodge Charger SE which was the first vehicle I ever owned. I rolled 336k miles on the odometer then sold it about 4 years ago. That car I replaced the original 400 CID with a 383 CID and beefed it up and had the 727 torqueflite transmission. My Dad bought that car brand new back in 1973 at Reseda Dodge. I even gave the new owner all the original invoice from the dealer. 

 

My 1972 Dodge Power Wagon I put on a bit over 220k miles and because of my lack of knowledge of oversized tires (and wanted to look cool!) I ended up destroying that front axle 3 different times which forced me to buy the current 2002. No longer could get part for that truck being so old. I learned a lot from that old truck. 

 

Now with my 2002 Dodge currently running, I've traveled 356k miles and still going. Yeah, I've had to do repairs but nothing outrageous out of the norm. I tow mostly during the summer either my utility trailer packed with firewood or the RV. Believe it or not my Cummins has only been towed home once in its life. (Broke the transmission mainshaft). Very reliable truck and always brought me home safely. Even in the worse of weather this Cummins just keeps rolling. Never gelled fuel yet even with the weather down to -40*F. Always started and always brought me home. I still going to cross the 500k milestone for sure. 

 

Now as for when I bought the 2002 Dodge brand new. Yeah, it was cool to have a new truck and no issue. But... When issues came it was a pain in  . By the time I reached 48k on the clock, I was losing my first lift pump and then by 50k lost the VP44. Not long from there I gave the Dodge Dealer the middle finger and became my own warranty station. I was already learning about the crappy lift pump and fuel supply by then and the dealer wanted to install an in-tank lift pump which I refused. After that point, I handled all the repairs on my own. I've never looked back. So I basically threw away 50k miles worth of warranty to keep from getting crappy parts which would have kept me coming back for VP44 replacements. I doubt I'll ever buy a brand new truck again. Having a truck payment and dealing with the service techs and making sure your getting the best option. Naw... I'll turn wrenches until I can no longer do it. 

 

The fact is no matter what vehicle you buy today they all have there own weakness and it up to you as the owner to study up on those weaknesses. Being I deal with vendors and other providers for the Dodge / Ram Cummins I know a lot about the newer trucks and not very happy with the current state. 

Edited October 6, 2018 by Mopar1973Man

[Guest 04Mach1]

20 minutes ago, Mopar1973Man said:

 

Kind of like my 1973 Dodge Charger SE which was the first vehicle I ever owned. I rolled 336k miles on the odometer then sold it about 4 years ago. That car I replaced the original 400 CID with a 383 CID and beefed it up and had the 727 torqueflite transmission. My Dad bought that car brand new back in 1973 at Reseda Dodge. I even gave the new owner all the original invoice from the dealer. 

 

My 1972 Dodge Power Wagon I put on a bit over 220k miles and because of my lack of knowledge of oversized tires (and wanted to look cool!) I ended up destroying that front axle 3 different times which forced me to buy the current 2002. No longer could get part for that truck being so old. I learned a lot from that old truck. 

 

Now with my 2002 Dodge currently running, I've traveled 356k miles and still going. Yeah, I've had to do repairs but nothing outrageous out of the norm. I tow mostly during the summer either my utility trailer packed with firewood or the RV. Believe it or not my Cummins has only been towed home once in its life. (Broke the transmission mainshaft). Very reliable truck and always brought me home safely. Even in the worse of weather this Cummins just keeps rolling. Never gelled fuel yet even with the weather down to -40*F. Always started and always brought me home. I still going to cross the 500k milestone for sure. 

 

Now as for when I bought the 2002 Dodge brand new. Yeah, it was cool to have a new truck and no issue. But... When issues came it was a pain in  . By the time I reached 48k on the clock, I was losing my first lift pump and then by 50k lost the VP44. Not long from there I gave the Dodge Dealer the middle finger and became my own warranty station. I was already learning about the crappy lift pump and fuel supply by then and the dealer wanted to install an in-tank lift pump which I refused. After that point, I handled all the repairs on my own. I've never looked back. So I basically threw away 50k miles worth of warranty to keep from getting crappy parts which would have kept me coming back for VP44 replacements. I doubt I'll ever buy a brand new truck again. Having a truck payment and dealing with the service techs and making sure your getting the best option. Naw... I'll turn wrenches until I can no longer do it. 

 

The fact is no matter what vehicle you buy today they all have there own weakness and it up to you as the owner to study up on those weaknesses. Being I deal with vendors and other providers for the Dodge / Ram Cummins I know a lot about the newer trucks and not very happy with the current state. 

I have to say the number 1 weakness on any current diesel engine is after treatment (DPF and SCR). For a Cummins 6.7 engine would be injectors for number 2. For a Duramax fuel system number 2. Ford Powerstroke 6.7 fuel system number 2, rust seems to be the common issue in Ford's 6.7 engine fuel system from poor fuel/water separation.

 

I think tire size has saved me a ton of suspension work on the old Ford. The biggest tires I've ever had on it are 31x10.5x15. Most of the time it's had LT235/75R15 tires. Other than C-bushings, radius arm bushings, track bar bushings, shocks, and spring bushings the suspension is completely stock and original. Still has the original steering box, original ball joints, original tie rods, original locking hubs, original axle u-joints, original clutch... Well other than the engine rebuild in 96 and little things like carburetor rebuild and a couple of driveshaft u-joints and the usual preventative maintenance the truck is pretty much still original parts. Its amazing what routinely greasing greasable chassis parts does for longevity. It is needing a clutch pretty bad right now, I don't have any more adjustment in the clutch linkage and the clutch partially releases with the clutch pedal buried in the floor. Its been this way for a few years and I may put a clutch in it one of these days if I ever get bored. I only use the clutch when taking off from a dead stop and float the gears when shifting which the NP435 never has seemed to mind. I don't think I'll ever be able to get rid of the truck. I have so many childhood memories in the truck that the sentimental value is just too much.

[Leaky88]

Tried a newer one.

 

I rented a 16 from Enterprise a couple of years ago for 2K RT to Wyoming.

 

I could hear my wife talking, the radio playing and there was no smell of #2.

 

Didn't like it. Never do that again!

 

 

[NIsaacs]

10 hours ago, 04Mach1 said:

 With the manual transmission and 4.56 gears she pulls better than either of Cummins trucks I own too. 

 

I think I would question this part, Lol

 

I run 428's for years in my '74 Ford dually with 4.56 gears and a 3spd aux. The Cummins conversion runs circles around it. 

10 hours ago, 04Mach1 said:

 

 

 

 

 

[KATOOM]

As long as you take care of a vehicle by changing the fluids and lubricants on a regular basis and fix worn parts before they damage something else.....they'll basically last forever.  The variable out of your control though is when needed parts and lubricants are no longer available.  Thats when you either fabricate, wing it, or conform...

 

Usually I decide to get rid of a vehicle when the cost of repairing it is overruling the financial benefit of owning it.  Meaning, I'm not spending thousands of dollars a year just to keep an old vehicle running if I can drive a new one for about the same.

[Guest 04Mach1]

5 hours ago, NIsaacs said:

 

I think I would question this part, Lol

 

I run 428's for years in my '74 Ford dually with 4.56 gears and a 3spd aux. The Cummins conversion runs circles around it. 

 

Many different variables can cause the 428 to not pull good. For starters it's a car engine that was never produced for a truck. A 360 or 390 ford truck engine would run circles around the 428 car engine when pulling weight. The 428 was an awesome Mustang engine though. There are many differences between say a 302 truck engine and a 302 car engine. The truck engine will be low rpm high torque. The car engine will be high rpm, high horsepower but low torque. There are differences in the parts the engine is built with that effect torque output such as camshafts, truck engines usually have heavier crankshafts and rods, and the list can go on. Torque moves the load.

 

Edited October 6, 2018 by 04Mach1

[NIsaacs]

37 minutes ago, 04Mach1 said:

Many different variables can cause the 428 to not pull good. For starters it's a car engine that was never produced for a truck. A 360 or 390 ford truck engine would run circles around the 428 car engine when pulling weight. The 428 was an awesome Mustang engine though. There are many differences between say a 302 truck engine and a 302 car engine. The truck engine will be low rpm high torque. The car engine will be high rpm, high horsepower but low torque. There are differences in the parts the engine is built with that effect torque output such as camshafts, truck engines usually have heavier crankshafts and rods, and the list can go on. Torque moves the load.

 

 

Yes, I have run most of the Ford engines in my time. Put a lot of miles on a Ford 900 w/534 and IHC's with the 549, good engines.

 

However, with that said, the 351M is no match for even a stock 1st gen.

 

1st dyno sheet is my 428 CJ in my '75 F-250 sled pull truck

2nd one is my Cummins Ford

 

[Guest 04Mach1]

Ive out pulled many first gen Cummins Dodge's with the 78 with equal weights and similar trailers in real world daily driver trucks. Not a truck built for the sport of sled pulling. Even so... The seat of my pants feeling when pulling 10k pounds or more of weight with the moderately built 351m that has work and parts done to it you can't buy from Jegs or Summit that is backed by a NP435 and 4.56 gears pulls harder than either of my Cummins B series engines backed by 47RE slush boxes and 3.55 gearing. I can maintain speeds such as 50-60 pulling in top gear on grades such as Raton Pass leaving or coming into New Mexico grossing around 12,000 lbs. with the old Ford. I've never worked either of my Dodge 2500s as hard as the Ford has been worked in it's life but the few times I've had cars on trailers behind the Dodge's and I've never felt the pulling that my Ford has. I don't have chassis Dyno sheets, my butt dyno says the Ford pulls better than either Cummins powered Dodge trucks I own. Someday I hope to own a 2nd gen with either a 6BT or an ISB backed by a manual transmission and proper gearing so I could experience the pulling power a Cummins is capable of and make the proper real world comparison.

 

@NIsaacs I didn't post any of this challenging you to a pee pee measuring contest so until we match up trucks weight for weight and mile for mile there is really no reason to argue since we have neither one seen each other's trucks run. I'm simply comparing my perspective of my Ford F150 to both of my Dodge 2500 trucks.

[NIsaacs]

3 hours ago, 04Mach1 said:

 

 

@NIsaacs I didn't post any of this challenging you to a pee pee measuring contest so until we match up trucks weight for weight and mile for mile there is really no reason to argue since we have neither one seen each other's trucks run. I'm simply comparing my perspective of my Ford F150 to both of my Dodge 2500 trucks.

 

No problem, I don't ever argue, not my style. However, I will discuss certain points from time to time. As a 50 year veteran of Fords, I will speak up some, even on a Cummins site

 

Enjoy your day. 

[Guest 04Mach1]

3 hours ago, NIsaacs said:

 

No problem, I don't ever argue, not my style. However, I will discuss certain points from time to time. As a 50 year veteran of Fords, I will speak up some, even on a Cummins site

 

Enjoy your day. 

Ok... On a different note  how hard was it to transplant a 6BT into an old Ford? I have a 180 horse P-pump 6BT that's going to find it's way into my Ford someday. I've been looking at buying a donor beat to crap F250 off the rez for the suspension since I don't think the Ford 9"  or Dana 44 will cope too well with the additional torque.

[NIsaacs]

It wasn't that bad to install, however it is a 4x2, 4x4 has a lot more challenges. When looking for a donor I would go F350, D60/D70 axles v/s the D44/D60 F250. Since you have a '78, you will need to look for a '77.5 - '79 with the wide frame so your body will fit. My engine has the aftercooler so I didn't need the room for an intercooler. My radiator and firewall are original, there is room with the right fan hub. https://www.turbodieselregister.com/threads/74-ford-f-350-cummins-6bta.260213/

 

 

[Guest 04Mach1]

Nice. I didn't realize that the F250 used the D44 front also. I hope the F350 parts won't be like finding a needle in a haystack. The engine is out of a 96 F550 and was intercooled, I want to stay intercooled so looks I'll have the challenge of that also. 

[NIsaacs]

The engine must be out of a '96 F-650, Ford didn't build a F-550 back then. Does it have an air compressor? If it does and you keep it, it and the power steering pump bolted to the back of it will cover your side motor mount bolt holes. Mine has it so I had to use front and rear mounts. 

[Guest 04Mach1]

On 10/7/2018 at 11:42 AM, NIsaacs said:

The engine must be out of a '96 F-650, Ford didn't build a F-550 back then. Does it have an air compressor? If it does and you keep it, it and the power steering pump bolted to the back of it will cover your side motor mount bolt holes. Mine has it so I had to use front and rear mounts. 

Might have been a F650. It did have an air compressor. Its got a service truck body with crane. The engine itself needs rebuilt. The truck is used at a coal mine and the engine got dusted from a torn intake pipe coupler. Peabody Energy wanted a Cummins Reman engine installed and provided the engine so I ended up with a worn out 180 6BT since they didn't want it back.

 

This was the new engine installed. 

[Mopar1973Man]

Heck just figure my 1996 Dodge even though it's a 5.9L V8 gasser I've got good idea it will make it to 30 years. It's already 22 years old and still in awesome shape. The engine just twisted out 17.1 MPG on this last trip and running strong. The odometer has 176,242 miles.

 

The 2002 Dodge is back off the road for a temporary time. When I got home with the RV and used the 4WD the front axles were popping and crunching as the wheel-joints where finally shot after 356k miles. So instead of running again on those and have the shafts beat up the unit bearings, I figure I would just use the 96 for a few days no bigger.