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Marcus2000monster

What makes 24 valves sound different from each other?

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I have noticed recently that my truck sounds nothing like half the other 24 valves I come across? What makes them sound different? The only difference I can think of is HO vs SO? Obviously 5 vs 4 and stock exhaust systems will have some impact still they’re is a large difference. Mods in sig. 

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43 minutes ago, Marcus2000monster said:

I have noticed recently that my truck sounds nothing like half the other 24 valves I come across? What makes them sound different? The only difference I can think of is HO vs SO? Obviously 5 vs 4 and stock exhaust systems will have some impact still they’re is a large difference. Mods in sig. 

Types of oils used (synthetic or dino), exhaust variations, general engine health, modification variation, timing, etc. I'd have to say the injectors you got installed will change fueling characteristics and will change engine tone. My 01 is the one of the quietest VP Cummins engines I've heard. Even the guys I work with noticed a difference between mine and other VP engines we have had in the shop. I attribute this to the engine oil I use and the injectors I have installed because I noticed significant engine tone change after the first oil change and again when I replaced the injectors.

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1 hour ago, Marcus2000monster said:

Why so low viscosity? Do you live in a very cold climate? 

Nope.. well in the summer we see 100+ *F temps. The altitude I live in right now is 6520 ft. Winter time we can see up to -20*F temps. The lower viscosity is easier to pump which saves energy and fuel. The lower viscosity is only about 5 psi lower than say a 15w-40 at idle warm engine. At speed there is minimal oil pressure variation between 15w-40 and 5w-40. These comparisons we're made with my 01 that has 5w-40 and my 97 that has 15w-40 using the same mechanical test gauge.

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I wish I could get my hand on a petroleum oil that is 5w-40 for up here. No one sells it. No, I'm not jumping in the synthetic oils way too expensive I'm on a limited budget. I change oil nearly once a month to every 5 weeks. (7k miles)

 

On the 1996 Dodge (V8 5.9L Gas) I've already switched over to 5w-30 and running the 180*F thermostat because I'm running the Mopar Performance PCM and it advances the timing to 40* BTDC cruising at 65 MPH. This has made a huge jump for MPG from 13-14 MPG to 17.1 MPG on my last tank.

 

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Edited by Mopar1973Man

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6 minutes ago, Marcus2000monster said:

Mike what’s your input on injectors making differences in sound vs stock? 

 

Quadzilla timing and pop pressures make a huge difference.

 

I just got a phone call from @pepsi71ocean that just had his injectors re-popped from the 280 bar he had to 320 bar roughly and way different from what he said. Runs much cleaner, way less smoke that before, pulls with more power since he's running +100HP injectors and Smarty S-03 tuner. The problem with the Smarty S-03 is that you have to take the designers limits. The S-03 is actually designed around STOCK injectors so the fuel and timing control doesn't exactly fit +100 HP injectors. 

 

I'm next in line when I got the extra funds I'm going to up the pop on mine because I know the last set of injectors I installed are 300 bar and nearly 100k miles now I'm sure they are well in the 280 bar range now. With my timing cranked up advanced it makes for quieter cruising, less turbo spooling, smooth run and better yet 20-21 MPG

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Mine is running quieter than it ever has at idle and cruising down the highway. 2 stroke made a difference, then I ran a lot bio blend fuel for quite a while and that quieted it even more. About 50k miles ago I put a set of DAP 50's in and it is quieter than ever. I did not notice an immediate change after swapping but was not expecting anything to happen along the quiet line. Not exactly sure why it is quieter now but it is.

 I remember when I bought the truck. I was standing there looking under the hood with the motor running wondering how you tell when something was going wrong in the engine, does it get quiet? I really dont think so, but coming off driving gassers all my life, it was a thought.

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3 hours ago, Mopar1973Man said:

I wish I could get my hand on a petroleum oil that is 5w-40 for up here. No one sells it. No, I'm not jumping in the synthetic oils way too expensive I'm on a limited budget. I change oil nearly once a month to every 5 weeks. (7k miles)

 

 

 

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T6 is only $20 a gallon most of the time at Walmart. That's the only reason I run it is because cost is barely more than 15w-40 dino. Even Delo XSP 5w-40 is around $20 at Walmart. Im sure UOA with CK4 oils would reveal 7k mile oil changes are a little premature and your not getting your monies worth out of the current oil you are using now since it's being changed too often. I've been running the T6 for almost 100k miles at 12k-15k mile change intervals with some UOA's along the way with zero negative effects.

 

2 hours ago, dripley said:

Mine is running quieter than it ever has at idle and cruising down the highway. 2 stroke made a difference, then I ran a lot bio blend fuel for quite a while and that quieted it even more. About 50k miles ago I put a set of DAP 50's in and it is quieter than ever. I did not notice an immediate change after swapping but was not expecting anything to happen along the quiet line. Not exactly sure why it is quieter now but it is.

 I remember when I bought the truck. I was standing there looking under the hood with the motor running wondering how you tell when something was going wrong in the engine, does it get quiet? I really dont think so, but coming off driving gassers all my life, it was a thought.

I definitely think 2 stroke oil quiets our engines. I can hear the timing change according to apps position and power demand with 2 stroke oil.

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11 minutes ago, 04Mach1 said:

I definitely think 2 stroke oil quiets our engines. I can hear the timing change according to apps position and power demand with 2 stroke oil.

The bio diesel did the same thing, even a bit more noticeable than the 2 stroke. 

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17 minutes ago, 04Mach1 said:

Im sure UOA with CK4 oils would reveal 7k mile oil changes are a little premature and your not getting your monies worth out of the current oil you are using now since it's being changed too often.

 

Ummm... I can't base on mileage alone when I may be idling the truck for long periods as well. Like this summer there was times where I slept in the truck with the A/C running for 4 hours idling. Then come this winter I'll be doing the same thing idling trying to stay warm at times. Not a normal just drive thing I've got to weigh in the full effect of everything. 

 

Now that the RV was towed home now. There is nowhere for me to go and hang out for 4 hours for 3 days a week while waiting for MoparMom to have here dialysis. Most days I fire up the laptop against my cell phone and continue to do web work while in the truck. Being now the temperatures are dropping down during the daytime I'll be prone to idling and keeping the heat going. 

 

7k to 8k is a safe realm without adding the cost of UOA. I'm sure I could jump up to 20k miles if I was like @cajflynn that ran 600 to 800 miles a day hauling boats. 

 

Now like @dripley is also the same kind of person that idles for long periods as well being his truck becomes his office lot of the time. Again you have to account for the long idle periods we place on the engine being those engine hours are not counted on the odometer. 

Edited by Mopar1973Man
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1 hour ago, Mopar1973Man said:

 

Ummm... I can't base on mileage alone when I may be idling the truck for long periods as well. Like this summer there was times where I slept in the truck with the A/C running for 4 hours idling. Then come this winter I'll be doing the same thing idling trying to stay warm at times. Not a normal just drive thing I've got to weigh in the full effect of everything. 

 

Now that the RV was towed home now. There is nowhere for me to go and hang out for 4 hours for 3 days a week while waiting for MoparMom to have here dialysis. Most days I fire up the laptop against my cell phone and continue to do web work while in the truck. Being now the temperatures are dropping down during the daytime I'll be prone to idling and keeping the heat going. 

 

7k to 8k is a safe realm without adding the cost of UOA. I'm sure I could jump up to 20k miles if I was like @cajflynn that ran 600 to 800 miles a day hauling boats. 

 

Now like @dripley is also the same kind of person that idles for long periods as well being his truck becomes his office lot of the time. Again you have to account for the long idle periods we place on the engine being those engine hours are not counted on the odometer. 

I suppose there is no such thing as too much maintenance. It all goes to how deep the pockets are. If the relatively low cost of UOA could save me the cost of 3 or 4 oil changes a year and help me identify impending engine failures such as over fueling injectors or internal coolant leaks I would be all over it. Another common failure that every size of Cummins has sometime in it's life is camshaft failure which is easily identified with routine UOA, I've changed 3 total camshafts nin well maintained ISB6.7 engines and many more in other Cummins engines, the ISX15 seems to be the worst about camshaft failure. @cajflynn second gen never saw the quality of oils that are at our disposal now days so Apple to Apple comparison can not be applicable. What I mean by that is CI-4 oil did not have near the capacity to keep harmful by-products of combustion in suspension like the CK-4 oils we have now.

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Is the noise mainly from combustion? I'll guess our engines may sound different based on air/fuel ratio, compression, condition of valve sealing area, condition of injectors and amount of fuel delivery. Operating altitude and amount of boost?

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1 hour ago, 04Mach1 said:

What I mean by that is CI-4 oil did not have near the capacity to keep harmful by-products of combustion in suspension like the CK-4 oils we have now.

 

Yeah but ol' Cajflynn covered 1.3 MILLION miles without any need of special testing or synthetic oils. Chevron Del 15w-40 and Fleetguard oil filters. Kind of like @dorkweed did a 84,000 mile oil change on SuperTech 15w-40 oil. He was running a bypass filter (Motorguard) and change filters every 7k miles and testing and Blackstone labs keep him going till 84k miles. 

 

All these that I'm quoting are members of the website and actually documented these happenings. 

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7 minutes ago, Mopar1973Man said:

 

Yeah but ol' Cajflynn covered 1.3 MILLION miles without any need of special testing or synthetic oils. Chevron Del 15w-40 and Fleetguard oil filters. Kind of like @dorkweed did a 84,000 mile oil change on SuperTech 15w-40 oil. He was running a bypass filter (Motorguard) and change filters every 7k miles and testing and Blackstone labs keep him going till 84k miles. 

 

All these that I'm quoting are members of the website and actually documented these happenings. 

I'm 15k on oriellys 10w-30 for heavy duty tractors, and a fleetguard filter and I'm getting pretty decent mileage going 70mph everyday from school and home, which is around 80 miles.

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5 minutes ago, Mopar1973Man said:

 

Yeah but ol' Cajflynn covered 1.3 MILLION miles without any need of special testing or synthetic oils. Chevron Del 15w-40 and Fleetguard oil filters. Kind of like @dorkweed did a 84,000 mile oil change on SuperTech 15w-40 oil. He was running a bypass filter (Motorguard) and change filters every 7k miles and testing and Blackstone labs keep him going till 84k miles. 

 

All these that I'm quoting are members of the website and actually documented these happenings. 

I see what you're saying... I'll never disagree that running down the highway at 65 is better for the oil than sitting at a 700 rpm idle. 

 

I once knew of a CAT 6NZ C15 in a Pete 379 that was at 1.2 million miles with well over 700k on the Mobil Delvac 5w-40 synthetic with no by-pass filter. He used about a gallon between filter changes which he used a CAT 1R-1808 oil filter every 25,000 miles with a Speedco UOA. Other than a couple of overhead adjustments there was never any other work done internally on the engine. He hauled cars which incurs a ton of idle pto time also. His oil of choice was Delvac 15w40 every 25k miles before the switch to synthetic. Unfortunately the guy passed away of pancreatic cancer a few years ago and I lost contact with the truck. I run the T6 12k-15k miles even when dealing with Denver Metro and Colorado Springs traffic which results in idle time sitting in traffic.

 

My main point is UOA is cheaper than oil and will definitely keep more green in your pocket without draining perfectly good oil out of the pan when you could get more miles from the oil consequence free. Oil never wears out, it just gets contaminated. The key is to find when contamination is getting to the point where the oil can no longer adequately protect the engine and base the filter change and oil pan drain intervals accordingly. 

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I recently spent a week on stock tuning...i removed the tuner for some diagnosis.

 

I could not believe how quiet my truck was with a stock timing. I have noticed on long drives at steady speeds, the timing will adjust and quiet down...but this was almost an instant on throttle change. 

 

These VP injections are very loud...and timing worsens that.

 

Now thatbthe tuner is back in....it is loud once again.

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If you over advance the timing yes it makes it louder. But if you hit that happy medium where the engine load is lowest and the timing is advanced them you gain both worlds.

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Mike i have to agree with the guys here. you can easy go 10-15K on your oil. even idling.

my 04 idles all night long on my road trips. a good 6-9 hours sometimes, my UOA are great. i change between 10-15K and anywhere form tractor supply 15-40 to walmart 15-40, and lately it's been delvac MXf2 15-40, every one has been good for longer service. TBN usually in the 6-8 range.

heck i'll pay for a UOA for you to prove it for you. i'd much rather see you get more use of the modern oils than flush good money out.

these engines like what ever oil meets the spec, and is on sale. they are not hard on oil at all. not like a PS is anyhow.

i'd venture to sugest you can switch from the delo to walmart and save a few $, it's good oil. else my 04 woulds died years ago.

i like the Devlac MXF2 as it's a CI oil. yes they reintroduced a CI oil. and so far i really like it. and the 95 12V likes it as well.

 

Mike your manaual was written for the oils of the day, todays oils are a lot better, and you an go and should get an hour meter, 500 hours.

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11 minutes ago, Killer223 said:

Mike i have to agree with the guys here. you can easy go 10-15K on your oil. even idling.

my 04 idles all night long on my road trips. a good 6-9 hours sometimes, my UOA are great. i change between 10-15K and anywhere form tractor supply 15-40 to walmart 15-40, and lately it's been delvac MXf2 15-40, every one has been good for longer service. TBN usually in the 6-8 range.

heck i'll pay for a UOA for you to prove it for you. i'd much rather see you get more use of the modern oils than flush good money out.

these engines like what ever oil meets the spec, and is on sale. they are not hard on oil at all. not like a PS is anyhow.

i'd venture to sugest you can switch from the delo to walmart and save a few $, it's good oil. else my 04 woulds died years ago.

i like the Devlac MXF2 as it's a CI oil. yes they reintroduced a CI oil. and so far i really like it. and the 95 12V likes it as well.

 

Mike your manaual was written for the oils of the day, todays oils are a lot better, and you an go and should get an hour meter, 500 hours.

Couldn't have said it better my friend.... Dads 95 went 300k+ miles with my dad on Walmart and Oriellys oil from the day he bought it, and there was never any metal on the drain plug and he changed it religiously at 10k. Now on his 03 he is using the same oil BUT running now at 30k on an oil change, and we are the firm believer that the longer the change the better the mileage. Before the custom tuning he has now (which I wont go into, I've blabbed about it enough) with a smarty was getting 22mpg, and the last time he changed his oil, right after we did it (btw still no metal on the plug or anything) he started getting ~18mpg out of the truck. Call us crazy but theres definitely a connection between weight and how long its been on a change.

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i know modern deere tractor oil is designed for 500 hours of service. and there is no real reason to believe these engines will be any different.

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22 minutes ago, Killer223 said:

i know modern deere tractor oil is designed for 500 hours of service. and there is no real reason to believe these engines will be any different.

Hell like I said earlier, I was using a bit of heavy duty 10w-30 due to a slight oil leak (stupid I know, I didn't realized it till it was all gone :doh:) bit as far as I can tell its still running the same and running great! It might be time for people to take a step back and question these types of things.... Don't you think?

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