Vibration after Southbend Dual Disc Clutch installed

[LegendaryKing]

On 6/3/2019 at 2:05 PM, Mopar1973Man said:

Man that sucks... Now you got the arm issues, the wrecked SUV and your truck out of action. Take a deep breathe and work your way through it.

 

The insurance company of the driver that rear-ended me just informed me they are not responsible for my personal injury medical bills. 

 

When you're going through hell ... keep going, that's no place to stop.

[Mopar1973Man]

6 minutes ago, LegendaryKing said:

When you're going through hell ... keep going, that's no place to stop.

 

Absolutely. There is always somewhere better to stop. You might take on some extra damage pushing through but it well worth it in the end!

[dripley]

8 hours ago, LegendaryKing said:

 

The insurance company of the driver that rear-ended me just informed me they are not responsible for my personal injury medical bills. 

 

When you're going through hell ... keep going, that's no place to stop.

How do they figure that if the injuries were sustained in the wreck?

[LegendaryKing]

Update: The rebuilder finished with the transmission and returned it to the trusted installer.  

Report from rebuilder: Transmission looked brand new.  No unusual wear patterns on the gear teeth, everything looked almost perfect … except for the syncros.  New syncros and bearings were installed; the transmission was re-assembled with new input shaft and sent to trusted installer. 

 

Report from trusted installer: Installed transmission and took for test drive.  Transmission shifted like butter.  One of the nicest direct shift truck transmissions he had the pleasure of driving.  HOWEVER, on the test drive when he released the gas pedal at 1,500 rpm in 4th gear there was a whirring noise under reverse torque (deceleration) followed by grinding.  The transmission would no longer go into 4th or 5th.  After a few applications of the clutch pedal, the transmission would go into 4th and 5th gear but not without “grinding”.   Transmission rebuilder inspected trans while in truck and said it had to come back out.  When the trusted installer drained the fluid it had LOTS of “glitter” in it. 

 

Truck is still waiting on the rebuilder to finish the transmission.  I have not hear anything since this past Friday.  We are at the beginning of week 3 since trusted installer removed transmission and sent it off to rebuilder.  Tags just came due for the truck and that is a kick in the wallet, as I have not had a working truck for a year.

[LegendaryKing]

Update:

Report from Trusted Installer: Rebuilder decided transmission on first rebuild was so clean and complete only 1^st and reverse syncro needed replacement so that is all that was replaced.  This is contradictory to what Trusted Installed requested, which was to replace all the syncros and bearings.  When the trusted installer took the truck out for a test drive the 4^th gear syncro shredded.  All other internals look perfect.  This time new bearings (again), and ALL syncros were replaced.  Hoping for truck delivery sometime next week.

[LegendaryKing]

Update:

I still do not have the truck back. 

Report from Trusted Installer: Transmission still isn't right.  It comes out of gear when you come off throttle and back on throttle.  Transmission re-builder Trusted Installer subbed out to is now out of business.  There is a dumpster out in-front of the building and the owner is nowhere to be found.  Trusted installer is planning on tearing down transmission and rebuilding from the ground up. 

 

I was given an estimate of approx 8 additional weeks until complete. 

[kzimmer]

That is absolutely brutal. No suprise he went out of business. Dirt bags like that are why I'm afraid to hire anyone for any services.

[LegendaryKing]

11 hours ago, kzimmer said:

That is absolutely brutal. No suprise he went out of business. Dirt bags like that are why I'm afraid to hire anyone for any services.

 

Brutal is the fact that I haven't had a working truck since August 2018 with what should have been a SIMPLE clutch replacement. 

[Mopar1973Man]

Don't feel bad. I'm going to be pulling my transmission for the 3rd time. 2nd gear has a failed syncro. I can clutch and try and it grinds every time. Now if I clear the shaft but shift 1st or 3rd first then back to 2nd its smooth as butter. I know my 1st and 2nd are still carbon fiber syncros. Under warranty and will be repaired but I'm getting tired of pulling this transmission and losing fluid (ATF and Mobil 50). 

 

This has been going since summer of 2019 yet when I broke 5th gear and still not right. Then 3rd and 4h syncros, now 2nd syncro. 

 

Weller thinks its the clutch but I'm pretty sure its not. You don't even need to press it all the wall to thew floor to disengage the clutch. Engages at the top of the pedal swing. Again I can clear the shaft by hitting 1st or 3rd first to sync the shaft then hit 2nd to launch. 

[Ironforger]

Wow, some incredible dumbass install mistakes. Cardboard between the flywheel and crank?  What???  Hand tight bolts?

 

At least you quickly took it to someone else to get the issues resolved.

 

Agree with other posts on this thread, I prefer to do my own work whenever I can. I did a full clutch job this past summer, installed a south bend stage II clutch and had my flywheel resurfaced. I replaced the rear main seal while I was in there. 

 I took my time and double checked each step. Works perfectly.

 

I know it's not possible for everyone to do their own work. Make sure you have a reputable mechanic from the get-go.

 

Oh and yea regarding that ball bearing pilot bearing that comes with the south bend kit, It fits very tight on the input shaft. Good luck getting that trans to go in smoothly. Most guys end up cranking the last half inch in with the trans mount bolts. Mistake.  I discarded that ball bearing pilot bearing and went with a solid oilite bronze pilot bushing. Fit perfectly and once I got that trans lined up it went right in smoothly without the need to use the trans mount bolts to crank it in.

 

 

[98whitelightnin]

My sb dd still shifts like garbage too and I’m afraid it was installers fault but I don’t have the place or help to pull the thing out right now. This nv4500 was the best shifting one id ever driven, until this garbage clutch job.

[LegendaryKing]

Finally got the truck back from trusted installer.  The owner of the trusted installer shop took a class and got trained on manual transmission rebuilding just to fix my truck.  Turns out the only thing wrong with the transmission this time was the input shaft wasn't shimmed properly.  Transmission now shifts great.  I'm letting the truck sit for a few days and then I'm going to go fire it up and drive it cold to see if it still shifts great.  Owner of the trusted installer shop says it shifts great cold or warm.  This is the happiest he has been with the transmission.

 

Trusted installer's opinion: transmission would shift a whole lot better with a factory clutch over the dual disc, but acknowledges the dual disc will outlast and out perform holding power of a factory style clutch.  Since this isn't a "race truck" or a "street toy" where super fast shifts matter the whole package will probably serve me well for years and miles to come. 

 

While it was there the list of items repaired was:

All ball joints

Control arm

Hub & bearing

Allignment

Thermostat

Front/rear diff and transfer case fluid

And I know I'm forgetting something but I'll update this thread in a few days. 

 

Truck drives straight as an arrow.  It almost feels like the newer modern trucks ... 80% of the way there.  There is a little bit of play in the steering box but that is to be expected on these trucks.  I have a steering box brace to help with the box deflection, but the box itself is on the worn side.  It's not too bad yet and I'm still recovering from this bill maybe at a later date I'll think about a box, but right now the truck drives so good it's not worth it to me. 

 

[Dieselfuture]

1 hour ago, LegendaryKing said:

I have a steering box brace to help with the box deflection, but the box itself is on the worn side. 

You can try adjusting over center. Clean top of box, mark with paint marker a line on hex screw and top cover, then lossen the nut, then turn hex clockwise a 1/4 snug the nut wile holding hex. If it gets better but still lose go another 1/4. Mine is 3/4 in, working good for now.

@Mopar1973Man has another way of adjusting it. Give it a try, you'll be surprised. 

[Mopar1973Man]

35 minutes ago, Dieselfuture said:

@Mopar1973Man has another way of adjusting it. Give it a try, you'll be surprised. 

 

Yup, I run the the adjustment screw all the way to bottom just lightly seating then I back off from bottom 1.5 turn to give slack to the gear teeth. You'll have to lift the output shaft a bit so you can get the slack you need. 

 

You can do the 1/4 turn method but you might have to do it like 20 times till you get the slack taken up.

[Tractorman]

1 hour ago, Mopar1973Man said:

Yup, I run the the adjustment screw all the way to bottom just lightly seating then I back off from bottom 1.5 turn to give slack to the gear teeth. You'll have to lift the output shaft a bit so you can get the slack you need. 

 

Can you elaborate a little more on this procedure, especially the "You'll have to lift the output shaft a bit so you can get the slack you need."    I have never made the adjustment this way.  I may try the procedure, but I would like to fully understand it before I try it.  Thanks.

 

- John

[dripley]

I would be interested too about the lifting of the shaft. Never heard of that. Mine will only turn about a have turn until bottoms out now. I guess I might have run out of adjustment after 500k. Done it several times over the years.

[Mopar1973Man]

Basically if you keep twisting the adjustment downward or tightening the output shaft is push down into the the rack of the gear. Now once bottom is found you lift up with your hand and push the output shaft back up as you get your slack adjustment. The weight of the drag link and the pitman arm prevents the adjustment screw to lift the full load. Just using the screw you'll get roughly 3/4 of turn and it will stop, till you lift the pitman arm up pushing the output shaft back up since the adjustment screw can't lift the weight. 

 

 

Looking at the photo the adjustment screw is on the other side. Pushing downward or towards us in the photo. The drag link is hanging from the output shaft. Soo as the adjustment goes tighten (downward) int the gear rack then it will hit bottom. Now lifting up allowing the screw to lift the output shaft back up from bottom to set your slack.

[Tractorman]

4 hours ago, Mopar1973Man said:

I run the the adjustment screw all the way to bottom just lightly seating then I back off from bottom 1.5 turn to give slack to the gear teeth.

 

I think I understand what you are saying about lifting the pitman arm / drag link and turning the screw the other way.  How did you arrive at 1.5 turns in the other direction?  How do you know that this final 1.5 turns is the exact position for adjustment?

 

There steering gearbox on my truck has 3 1/2 turns of the steering wheel from stop to stop.  Does this make a difference?

 

Just want to be sure I fully understand this before I try it.

 

- John

Edited April 13, 2020 by Tractorman

[Mopar1973Man]

You need some slack in the gear to prevent binding up over the center position. You add slack to prevent it from binding up. If 1.5 turns is still stiff add another 0.5 turn out.

 

If you removed the box and rebuilt it you would do the same thing bottom out and set you slack. Just the output shaft has nothing  attached. So backing off is easy because no drag link hanging.

[Tractorman]

On ‎4‎/‎13‎/‎2020 at 5:14 AM, Mopar1973Man said:

You need some slack in the gear to prevent binding up over the center position. You add slack to prevent it from binding up. If 1.5 turns is still stiff add another 0.5 turn out.

 

I understand about needing slack to avoid binding in the over center position.  I was just curious as to how you arrived at the 1.5 turns out.  Did you get that information from a service manual?   Did you experiment and come up with a specific value on your own?

 

I have always had a very small amount of slack in the steering wheel - about 1/2" of travel on the outer circumference of the steering wheel.  It is unnoticeable while driving and the truck steers well.  I have always used the 1/4 turn at a time technique to reach the final adjustment setting.

 

Yesterday, I used your procedure to make a steering gear box adjustment.   The steering wheel play did not change, but there was a small, but definite improvement on straight line steering and steering wheel return.  I think I may have had the adjustment just a touch too tight previously.  My testing consisted of local driving in Baker City and 28 mile round trips to my property and a 250 mile round trip to Nampa, Idaho today.  Today's test was a good test as winds were 20 to 30 mph all day - head winds, cross winds, and tail winds.  The truck was easy to steer under all conditions.

 

@dripley, I will be curious to hear your results if you should decide to try it.

 

- John