New Injectors?

[Rotax3006]

Hi guys

 

So I think its time for some new injectors, truck has a pretty decent knock than sounds like all the injector knock videos on you tube.  The stock ones have 253000 miles on them so I'm sure the pop pressure is pretty low.  From my reading on here it sounds like maybe 100-150k mile per set give or take.  So my question is.  With a mostly stock truck would you guys recommend RV 275s or the DAP 7V.008 50 HP set or something completely different.  Some day I would like to add some HP but nothing too crazy for the time being anyway.  They are pretty similar in cost so looking for advise/experiences for other users. 

 

98.5 Standard Cab with lots of dents and rust. 

[Tractorman]

I just switched to RV275's about 6,000 miles ago (303,000 miles on the OEM injectors).  They perform well for me.  I have never heard of any negative comments about the RV275 injectors.

 

I think there are others on this forum who have run the RV275's and different injectors on the same truck, as well.  You will probably be hearing from them soon. 

 

I use the SO3 Smarty programmer - the RV275's and the programmer work well together.  My truck is a daily driver and is used for towing.

 

- John

[Evan]

I'd recomend sac injectors. I'm running 7x.009 from ducky fuel injection.

7x009 is labeled as a 100hp upgrade. 

Egts are manageable but watch your egt gauge close while towing 

 

Biggers always better I've wonderd if I could have gone bigger.  Ounce I upgrade the turbo I could go bigger.

 

I'm seeing 38psi under a load and pedal grades at 65ish at just under 1300deg

 

 

 

 

 

 

[dripley]

I ran 50's in mine with the comp. To smokey for my taste. You could not smoke out an intersection by any means but still smokey. I could mostly get around that by rolling into throttle insteadof stabbing it. It did hot quick too with the Comp. Had to turn down to level 2 to keep the heat under control while towing.

 I have run the rv's with and without the comp. Not smokey at all without and very little with. I ran level 3 towing with rv's without heat issues. I ran the rv's for about 3 years with out a tuner, every day driving and towing. They are a decent up in power and I got about a 1.5 mpg boost out of them.

 I am replaing my head gasket at the moment and did purchase a set of rebuilt rv's from @dieselautopower. I would have bought new ones but I may end up with a quad in the so bigger injectors might be in my future. Figures these will be fine for a while until I decide whether to make the switch.

 My vote is for the RV's especially if you dont have gauges. You will like them. The difference between 2 are negligible and the RV's are brand spanking new.

[01cummins4ever]

I switched out my original injectors at around 300k, or thier abouts. With new RV 275’s along with a quad xzt+. at the same time. Now have 321k, and completely happy with the performance. The xzt generally lives on level 2 economy mode and saw a 1-2 mpg increase after install but seems to be closer to 1 mpg as the injectors broke in. I do use level 3 when towing and when I do Im usually grossing above 20k Pounds and can still keep my temps in spec. I have a full set of gauges and I wouldnt attempt what I do without them. 

Im sure you can go bigger, but as in my case I have to be careful as I am running a 47re auto with only a little over stock upgrades. So far no problems but stock autos don’t like anything above the 300 hp mark. I believe the RV injectors are a 40 hp upgrade, running them on a stock motor even with no tuner  you would be happy with them. 

[IBMobile]

I'm running the same as @01cummins4ever but with an Edge EZ and use the truck 90% of the time for towing up to 9k pound trailers.  I really like the boost of power with out overwhelming the drive train.  

[Evan]

My sac 7x009 are smokey towing a 10k machine I'm bellowing black smoke. 

That was with no boost fooler. With the boost fooler the truck has woke up alot. Egts seem to be down to.

The mini x had me running at 1300 just cruising on flat ground. Pulling grades I easily hit 1500 peddling back to 13 is and running rpms much higher.

 

I haven't towed the mini since plugging the boost fooler in.  No more defueiling.  I'm seeing alot more psi . Could might be cooler but I could see it hotter since I now get to use the 100hp injectors

 

used to defuel just over 20lbs now itl go easy 30 and I've seen 35-38 under a load 

[Mopar1973Man]

7 x 0.010 VCO @ 320 bar...

 

Towing season is coming close for me. I'm working on my fuel map on the Quadzilla and just figured out how to control EGT's so you can stand on the throttle without getting stupid high EGT's maxed out at 1,100*F at WOT. I'm going to have this all mastered out really well by the time I hitch up my 31 foot Jayco at about 8,000 pounds.

 

Boost max: 47 PSI

EGT Max: 1,100*F @ WOT

 

Just working on smoothing this out a bit more.  

Edited April 3, 2019 by Mopar1973Man

[Evan]

I'll have to get one of those wonder boxes

Though I bet I still run hot towing power equipment 

[Rotax3006]

Thanks for all the replies.  looks like RV 275s are the ticket at least for my application.  Will bad injectors create a ticking/Pssst kind of sound under deceleration?  I have a sound that has been bothering me for a while now that almost sounds like a burned valve but its really quiet (at least compared to the burned valve on the old chevy 292 gasser). Cant hear it under acceleration, only deceleration with no throttle add a slight amount of fuel and it goes away.  I guess it wouldn't be too hard to run a compression test when I swap injectors that would tell me for sure.  I tried to get a video but I made it too long to upload. Maybe I can get a shorter one tonight.  Thanks again guys.

[Evan]

Have you adjusted valves? 

A loose valve will seat harder and longer as the valves stretches and everything wears.

Most cummins I've seen don't get valves adjusted at the 100k or120k Cummins recommends .

 

I'd probly adjust them if they haven't ever been touched. And go from there

[WiscoRedkneck]

5 hours ago, Evan said:

Have you adjusted valves? 

A loose valve will seat harder and longer as the valves stretches and everything wears.

Most cummins I've seen don't get valves adjusted at the 100k or120k Cummins recommends .

 

I'd probly adjust them if they haven't ever been touched. And go from there

I'm that guy who didn't follow those recommendations and at 270k with a weird noise that came about I adjusted the valves and fixed the slight tick knock thing. I found out the previous owner did them at 100k per conversations with him.  Knowing what bad and good sounds like you can almost tell by sound when it comes time to adjust the rattle box just gets more noisy.....

That being said I am in the process of putting another new set of rv275s in this weekend.  So far this set has about 310k previous owner put rvs in at 70kish.  Definitely has an injector miss, but I never once had an issue with rvs if I go compound turbos I will go bigger but 35/40 hybrid turbo rv275s and a smarty and she will pull 20k no issues and the truck can still get out of it's own way if you know what I mean. Best stepping stone injector imho

[Rotax3006]

I thought the exact same thing as you guys so I pulled the valve cover and took a look.  I set them at 150k then again at 225k.  They were almost perfect at .010 and .020 (where I set them).  I did get a video of the noise at idle today. Sorry about the shaking.  I also noticed the idle is slightly elevated.  I think I read Mopar1973man injector write up that that is a sign of wear.  I'm definitely going to go with the RV 275 injectors when I do pull the trigger.  I did break a valve spring a about 5 years ago but it didn't fall in.  I'm sure it kissed the piston a few times before I got to a place where I could shut it down. The valve did not feel bent you could spin it freely, felt like it seated fine.  It was the daily driver at the time so I didn't have much choice but to put it together and drive it.  (work gets in the way of everything!). This sound didn't start then though so I think its ok. Oil pressure is great still and the blades in the turbo look perfect.  Could be leaking seat though.  Might be worth getting a compression gauge and checking it out.  I do have a backup vehicle now so I can take my time this go around. 

[Rotax3006]

Well I guess I found that exhaust/leaking valve sound.  Anyone ever braze these up?  Good replacement?

[Mopar1973Man]

On 4/3/2019 at 8:07 AM, Evan said:

I'll have to get one of those wonder boxes

Though I bet I still run hot towing power equipment 

 

Nope. Very controllable and no real issue with EGT's on my last tow which was a 8,000 pound 31 foot Jayco RV. This includes climbing grades at 6% and 7% not a problem. 14.93 MPG for towing the RV from New Meadows, Idaho to Parma, ID. I've got to work on the tuning tune a bit more I'm sure I can make it work awesome. 

 

Injectors are DAP VCO (7 x 0.010 @ 320 bar) which is different from your Ducky Fuel Injection (7 x 0.009) popped at most likely 305 bar.

 

 

Edited April 15, 2019 by Mopar1973Man

[Evan]

You like vco better? 

I've got know idea about poppin that's freak to me

 

Popping at 320bar is better than 305?

I dont think I get near 14  towing. Though when our fuel bill is 4k a month it's easy to not care. Our big cam cummins gets about 6. 

Edited April 15, 2019 by Evan

[Mopar1973Man]

57 minutes ago, Evan said:

You like vco better?

 

Better stability compared to the SAC. At least in my experience, the first set of SAC 7 x 0.0085 injectors had a nasty stalling issue and very lopey. Now with the 7 x 0.010 @ 320 bar they got a very mild lope but smooth at an idle. Doing the tune work for higher pop pressure.

 

57 minutes ago, Evan said:

I've got know idea about poppin that's freak to me

 

Stock injectors by FSM specs are 310 bar pop pressure for the injector. Most performance injectors start popping at 300 or 305 bar for flow reasons. Now which you step over to the higher side and jump to 320 bar the flow is reduced but the efficiency is increased. The fuel is atomized better and ignites easier. 320 bar will give better longevity to the injector too making them last longer. 

 

1 hour ago, Evan said:

I dont think I get near 14  towing. Though when our fuel bill is 4k a month it's easy to not care. Our big cam cummins gets about 6.

 

I drive a Cummins Big Cam 400 for the fire dept I know what you're talking about. As for myself, I've got 250-mile trips to do 3 days a week. I'm after the efficiency of the injector. So far I'm on my way past 20 MPG and still rising. 

[Rotax3006]

Well the 275s are in!  Truck definitely has some more zip and sounds a lot better. Throws a little smoke but not enough to get into trouble.  Thanks for all the tips.

 

[Mopar1973Man]

Yeah, need more timing and a bit of defueling to spool the turbo to clean that up. 

[Rotax3006]

2 hours ago, Mopar1973Man said:

Yeah, need more timing and a bit of defueling to spool the turbo to clean that up. 

Would a boost fooler and elbow help with anything or are those a waste of money?  Don’t have the funds right now for a high end tuner.  One of these days I’ll find the right deal but the kids seem to take all my disposable income.........thanks