1999 3500 Cummins won't crank over

[pepsi71ocean]

Hey guys, so ive done several good wiring go overs and I can't get my truck to start. 

 

I suspect now it could be the neutral safety switch, but I'm not sure at this point since the reverse lights come on when the truck is in reverse. 

 

I'm out of ideas here.

 

EDIT:

 

I pulled codes with the scan gauge and got po602, and po1689

 

Also can anyone tell me what this plug is for?

 

I believe there is a purple and white wire on it. I think it's the CCD, but I don't remember now.

Edited February 6, 2020 by pepsi71ocean

[Dieselfuture]

What's it doing, click no click, wait to start coming on. My contacts in starter were bad an sometimes it clicked and others nothing, after I rebuilt it starts every time.

[pepsi71ocean]

It doesn't even click. Lights come on, and when you go to crank nothing happens. 

 

I did rebuild the starter. It cranks over with a screw driver.  The lift pump doesn't even bump. It's really confusing.

[Tractorman]

@pepsi71ocean, are saying that when you turn the ignition switch to the start position the starter does not crank and the lift pump does not run?  If this is so, then maybe you disturbed a wiring harness connector or something like that when you were working on your wiring projects. I am assuming the engine started fine before you started your work on the wiring.

 

I know that many times when I have had a problem, it was related to previous work that I had done that didn't seem to be related to the  problem.

 

- John

[Dieselfuture]

What he said ^^^ you know quite a bit about your truck not sure how we're going to help. Waiting on more wire inclined minds. 

Didn't you have your ecm repaired ? 

[dave110]

Sounds to me like the connection between the 'run' spot on the key switch and ECM is broken or disconnected somehow. That would explain the no LP run and the 1689 code. The ECM is not being told to boot. There's wiring maps here somewhere. Maybe take a look and start tracing out some wires 

That plug you show a pic. of. Where is that at? Looks like under the dash but not sure.Wish I could help more.

Edited February 6, 2020 by dave110

[pepsi71ocean]

The PCM was rebuilt, but it show voltage when key is on and the scan gauge. The ECM also reports iat temperature and water temperature as well.

 

The starter relay is getting 12v when I key forward. However, on the 85 side of the starter it is not showing voltage? 

 

@Mopar1973Man I have the red probe on the positive side, and the black probe in 85, key forward it reads 0.00 volts.

 

Now the only other things that is odd is I dropped the valve body, and shipped it to Dynamic. I'm now wondering if the netural safety switch could have something to do with this? 

 

I tried pulling it tonight, I can't get a socket on the dam thing lol. It's 1" but I can't get a crows foot on it.

 

Is it possible that the neutral safety switch can be bad, but still allow the truck reverse lights to come on when in reverse?

Edited February 6, 2020 by pepsi71ocean

[dave110]

Should be easy enough to jump the NSS and see if that's the culprit I would think.

[pepsi71ocean]

2 minutes ago, dave110 said:

Should be easy enough to jump the NSS and see if that's the culprit I would think.

Any suggestions on that? 

I probed the switch on the one prob I got 0.4ohm for resistance. 

 

I think that could be it?

[dave110]

Back when I was seriously contemplating a manual swap and reading all the threads I could on it I remember some guys getting away with the Auto PCM and either jumping or grounding a wire on the NSS  to get the truck to run and then tucking the plug up and away. I think some even pulled the leads back up to the PCM and made the connection up there. It's too long ago and I just don't remember exactly. There's a thread or 2 pinned over on CF about manual swaps. Might be able to find it there. However if your LP doesn't run I'd suspect something else. 

 

Here we go. This is taken from a swap thread on CF. I have not tried it myself.

Now for the wiring to make it all work. The only plug needed is the Neutral safety switch off the auto tranny. It is a 3-wire plug. The middle wire on the plug will have to be run up through the fire wall and hooks to the clutch safety switch. The CSS has two wires on it, you can attach to either one of them, and then take the other one and ground it on the firewall. Now for the other two wires on the Neutral SS, These are for your reverse lights. They go to the only plug on the nv4500 transmission. That's all the wiring it takes.
 

Edited February 6, 2020 by dave110

[Dieselfuture]

7 hours ago, dave110 said:

Sounds to me like the connection between the 'run' spot on the key switch and ECM is broken or disconnected somehow.

Could it be ignition switch like @dripley had problems with 

[dripley]

I did and still have the problem. Turn the key the start position and nothing. It started intermittantly and got worse. I replaced the starter switch and it did not fix it. I still have a remote switch hanging from the multifunction switch that I use. Funny thing is the key will still start it but only a couple times then it wont so back to the remote switch. I dont think my lift pump runs when it does not start either, but I am not sure. Bumping the remote switch with the key on and the pump does run. Every thing else works as it should.

Figure my issue is in the wiring somewhere. As much as I love electrical problems it will have to wait untill I have the time and ambition to dig into it.

[IBMobile]

Test ignition switch by volt test at pin 86 at starter relay plug.  Battery voltage there when key is turned to start position.  

 

Test the neutral safety switch with ohm meter at pin 85 at starter relay plug in the PDC.  One meter lead on ground and the other at pin 85.  When transmission is in park or neutral the reading should be about 0 ohms.  

 

Using a 14 gauge wire between pin 30 and 87 of the same plug should cause the starter to run. 

[pepsi71ocean]

1 hour ago, IBMobile said:

Test ignition switch by volt test at pin 86 at starter relay plug.  Battery voltage there when key is turned to start position.  

 

Test the neutral safety switch with ohm meter at pin 85 at starter relay plug in the PDC.  One meter lead on ground and the other at pin 85.  When transmission is in park or neutral the reading should be about 0 ohms.  

 

Using a 14 gauge wire between pin 30 and 87 of the same plug should cause the starter to run. 

 

I have an open loop on 85 regardless of the position.

 

Testing the starter cracking now.

 

I swapped the NSS this am and saw this. Could this have something to do with it?

 

I think that could be a crack in the plastic piece but I'm not sure women?

 

 

[Great work!]

That bare spot completes the ground through the NSS and provides ground for the start relay. The linkage may need adjustment. Try holding the key in start with one hand and move the shift lever up and then down through the ranges slowly if it starts then adjust linkage

[ColoradoColt]

Any chance the ignition run fuse would cause this? I’m sure you checked fuses anyway. Just throwing out ideas

[IBMobile]

With out the ground for the starter relay, pin 85, through the NSS the starter will never work.  The power flow is pin #85 to pin #2 (middle pin) of the NSS to the metal part of the NSS body which is grounded when screwed into the transmission case.  

  

[pepsi71ocean]

22 hours ago, IBMobile said:

 

@IBMobile do you think that crank in the purple thing could be causing the NSS to not work?

 

I'm not sure why, but I suspect that is the issue at this point. I swapped it with a new one and it still won't start. But jumping it directly from the battery to the one side works.

 

When I put the valve body up i think it may have cracked?

[IBMobile]

4 minutes ago, pepsi71ocean said:

 do you think that crank in the purple thing could be causing the NSS to not work?

If that metal square is used to activate the switch and it has become dislodged and recessed then that is a problem. 

If you have tried a new switch and ohm test still shows an open circuit at the center pin or terminal 85 of the starter relay plug in the PDC then yes the problem is in the transmission.

 

22 minutes ago, pepsi71ocean said:

But jumping it directly from the battery to the one side works.

What are you jumping directly and which terminal?

 

 

[pepsi71ocean]

1 hour ago, IBMobile said:

If that metal square is used to activate the switch and it has become dislodged and recessed then that is a problem. 

If you have tried a new switch and ohm test still shows an open circuit at the center pin or terminal 85 of the starter relay plug in the PDC then yes the problem is in the transmission.

 

I cant get my finger deep enough inside. ironically im also having transmission shifting issues so now im also chasing other stuff..

 

Quote

What are you jumping directly and which terminal?

 

Its the pin from he relay that is closest to the drivers side of the truck. I literally put a plug into it and hop it onto the positive terminal from the battery. I believe its the brown wire socket? I'll take a photo in a min.

 

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Also, @Dynamic I wanted to give some feed back. So far no stalling issues with the truck.. It did it once yesterday when we first got it moving, but after 120 miles of driving, and dozens of idling and shifting no stalling issues. I'm really happy. I can idle in drive at a stop light and the truck temp stays about 160.  The truck runs so much better.

 

Now, some quirks, and Im not sure if this is me, (my install or related to this non starting issue), When I take my foot off the pedal the truck coasts (which is normal IIRC), but if i drop it into manual 2 or manual 1, it doesn't downshift unless the O/D off is turned on?

I noticed that if i keep my foot on the pedal and lift it slowly it will downshift?

 

Is this a TV cable issue, maybe the shift linkage, or say a loose band or say a cocked valve in a bore? I did my best to let the trans sit in neutral ball and adjust the shiftier rod.

 

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@IBMobile here is the photo

 

Edited February 7, 2020 by pepsi71ocean