1999 3500 Cummins won't crank over

[Mopar1973Man]

 

Starter solenoid relay.

86 - should see +12V only with the key twisted in the START position.

85 - should show ground only when the transmission is in PARK or NEUTRAL.

30 - should be hot all the time. 

87 - Should be powered if 86 and 85 are working.

 

 

Edited February 7, 2020 by Mopar1973Man

[dave110]

11 hours ago, pepsi71ocean said:

@IBMobile do you think that crank in the purple thing could be causing the NSS to not work?

 

I'm not sure why, but I suspect that is the issue at this point. I swapped it with a new one and it still won't start. But jumping it directly from the battery to the one side works.

 

When I put the valve body up i think it may have cracked?

If you ground the middle pin on the NSS does it work? If so the switch would be bad if not it's something else.

[IBMobile]

12 hours ago, pepsi71ocean said:

Its the pin from he relay that is closest to the drivers side of the truck.

That is 87 and it goes to the starter solenoid, that is why the starter works.

 

                                

RELAY PIN LOCATION

 

OHM READING TERMINAL 85 TO PIN #2 AND THROUGH NSS TO TRANSMISSON CASE FOR GROUND

 

BATTERY VOLTAGE AT TERMINAL 30

 

 

VOLTAGE AT TERMINAL 86 WITH KEY IN START POSTION

 

If you have a high OHM reading, 0L or 1, at terminal 85 with the transmission in park or neutral then there is an open circuit.  Either the wire is bad from the relay to the switch, the switch is bad, the linkage is out of adjustment or a problem with the part that is cracked in the valve body.      

 

[Dynamic]

If you jump terminals 30 and 87 at the relay, does the starter engage? If so, then your starter is fine. If not, you're looking for something on that circuit. Neutral safety switch would be out of the loop at that point.

 

Are you getting power on terminal 86 at the relay when the key is in the crank position? (Use a test light, not a DVOM. DVOM's require basically zero current flow to read voltage, and can definitely lead you on a goose chase in a situation like this.) If so, then your ignition switch is working correctly. If not, you're looking on that circuit.

 

If you ground pin 2 at the NSS, does it crank? If so, then that circuit is working fine, and the problem lies with either the switch itself, or the cam on the rooster comb (the purple thing), which is what I would suspect since you had the valve body out.

 

If the transmission is in OD, it will not manually downshift until OD is commanded off and the transmission completes the downshift to 3rd.

[pepsi71ocean]

I think it's the can in the rooster tail. When I was putting it up, i had to do it too get that E clip out of the parking paw, it zingged when I was tryin to put it on. And I think that is when the valve body slide on me. I'm fault sure that purple thing is cracked. 

 

 

[dave110]

Ever get this one figured out?

[pepsi71ocean]

21 hours ago, dave110 said:

Ever get this one figured out?

 

I think it is the purple cam on the valve body. It has a crack in it, and I suspect that it cause the truck to not register park or neutral, so it doesn't want to start because it thinks it's in a gear.

[Evan]

This may be my simple mind working but if the truck wont crank or start how can it have trans issues?

Is there more to the story.

 

Dont **** with electrical that's has anything to do forward of trailer plug on rear bumper.  

[wil440]

2 hours ago, Evan said:

 

 

Dont **** with electrical that's has anything to do forward of trailer plug on rear bumper.  

?

[Dieselfuture]

2 hours ago, Evan said:

This may be my simple mind working but if the truck wont crank or start how can it have trans issues?

Is there more to the story.

 

Dont **** with electrical that's has anything to do forward of trailer plug on rear bumper.  

I think he had intermittent issues with it starting maybe and because he dropped the valve body, he thinks he damaged the switch inside of it because its cracked now and not functioning like it supposed to 

The trailer plug thing is funny though, I feel that any time I mess with anything something else comes up, we'll see what this installing a resonator brings 

[pepsi71ocean]

Well guys, I wired up a relay to power my starter from one of the extra switches on the truck.

 

I'm wondering if this will effect he high idle, because the truck didn't do it yesterday morning as it was 20f out. 

[Dynamic]

56 minutes ago, pepsi71ocean said:

Well guys, I wired up a relay to power my starter from one of the extra switches on the truck.

 

I'm wondering if this will effect he high idle, because the truck didn't do it yesterday morning as it was 20f out. 

Why not pull the valve body and fix it?

[pepsi71ocean]

13 hours ago, Dynamic said:

Why not pull the valve body and fix it?

 

Two things,

 

1. Funds are really tight, I havn't had the chance to find the part online to buy it.

2. the truck was pressed into service as soon as sea trials were done. I've driven almost 1,600 miles since the truck was back in service. I've been running it 7 days a week non stop.

[Dynamic]

I don't remember hearing my phone ring. I could have helped you out...

[pepsi71ocean]

44 minutes ago, Dynamic said:

I don't remember hearing my phone ring. I could have helped you out...

 

I called, but I can't remember if I left you a voicemail or not. It was I think a late Tuesday or Wednesday Night. 

 

I'm still trying to get my truck to downshift when I command it. I put it into manual 2 but it takes along time to downshift. I was thinking it would have taken less time. Like almost instant in this case? 

[Dynamic]

You must have called when I was out of town. I'll check my messages again. Sadly, I don't always get them.

 

So you're having trouble with manual 2nd? I would recommend putting a pressure gauge it and then we can run some tests. That valve body was all kinds of screwed up. I want to make sure it's working like it's supposed to.

 

Anyway, give me a call. I will be off most of this week working on the new shop since we have some nice weather, but you can try to catch me, or I'll be back in the shop at the end of the week.

[pepsi71ocean]

3 minutes ago, Dynamic said:

You must have called when I was out of town. I'll check my messages again. Sadly, I don't always get them.

 

So you're having trouble with manual 2nd? I would recommend putting a pressure gauge it and then we can run some tests. That valve body was all kinds of screwed up. I want to make sure it's working like it's supposed to.

 

Anyway, give me a call. I will be off most of this week working on the new shop since we have some nice weather, but you can try to catch me, or I'll be back in the shop at the end of the week.

 

I'll try to get some pressure tests done. How would you like me to test them? and what procedure?

 

Quite literally, the only way it downshifts into M2 is if I O/D off and then don't touch the pedal, and sometimes it will downshift around 30mph, and then usually shifts right into 1st if i downshift it.

 

I know dtt did a wonder on it.

[IBMobile]

These are the line pressures I have with Dynamic's valve body.

 

Air temp 91°F  Transmission fluid temp 165°-190°F

Line pressure, transmission in drive :  no throttle  stopped   85 PSI       

                                                          light throttle  2ed gear 105 PSI

                                                          light throttle  3ed gear  110 PSI

                                                          light throttle  4th gear   120 PSI @ 2200 RPM

                                                          W/O throttle  1-2 shift   180 PSI @ 2800 RPM

                                                          W/O throttle  2-3 shift   175 PSI @ 3100 RPM 

                                                          W/O throttle  3-4 shift   150 PSI  

                                                          W/O throttle  4-3 shift  150 PSI  

                                                          100% throttle 4th gear TCC locked @ 70 MPH 160 PSI

                                                          0% throttle 3ed or 4th gear TCC locked down hill slowing 100PSI

                                                          reverse gear stall test 330 PSI