Truck will start in the morning but won't start after driving a few miles

[Drc]

2 minutes ago, Dieselfuture said:

Don't feel obligated just our experience, back in the day I had a shitty experience there but it was almost 10 years ago and I believe who I delt with doesn't work there any longer. Since then I bought a few things there with good luck and good support. This goes for any company, some are not around anymore because of it and others are still screwing people. 

I do some research and look at reviews on certain companies with good reviews thanks for the input

[dripley]

One other thing to consider. There very few companies that reman the pumps. It requires very specific and expensive equipment to do the work. 98% of the folks selling them do not reman them. They are just resellers.

[CUMMINSDIESELPWR]

probably been said but you have the dreaded hot no start syndrome on the vp, no codes but no hot start and will cold start. i had same thing happen to me, swapped the vp out and all fixed. but you will need to upgrade the lift pump to one that can handle the task of cooling as well as pressure or you WILL do this again around 100,000 more miles...   i recommend the fuel boss mechanical pump, no problems and wont fail like an electric lift pump.

[Bullet]

^^^ +1 what he said about lift pumps.

[Mopar1973Man]

Some of us just went for the AirDog 150 and still running after 250k miles. I only had to replace the pump motor. The OE AirDog was a 2G pump. That went the 250k miles. Now the 3G pump barely lasted 7k miles and failed with bad seal and ate the shaft bearing locked up. 4G pump 165 GPH now I'm rolling and we'll see how far the 4G AirDog does. So far its stable 15 to 17 PSI. 

[dripley]

I have lost 2 pumps. I believe they were 3g pumps. Both lssted about 4.5 years. Both replaced under warranty but was a headache. Hopefully the 4g lasts much longer. I am not knocking the mechanical pumps, just dont dont want to spend 6 or 7 hundred more to replace the whole system at this point.

[wil440]

When I got my truck the PO had just fitted a Fass pump that fits in the same place as the stock pump... I forget which Fass it was .. the cheapest. I noticed he hadn't fitted a fuel filter of any sort accept a pre pump canister filter similar to the old inline petrol filters,  luckily it hadn't done no miles on the pump before I got it so I fitted a Caterpillar filter head and Cat filter and went bigger lines from the pump onwards, I then got a bumper pull TT which was around 11 to 12k lbs loaded, this was before I got a fuel pressure gauge (doh).

I noticed that sometimes it would sort of cough for want of a better description when pulling hard so I spoke to @dieselautopower and got a fuel pressure gauge on it's way, very glad I did, fuel pressure was dropping too far and coincided with the cough.

I did some more pipework before the pump and also used a Cat inline prefilter before the pump which is used on Cat excavators with the C13 engine so big enough for me this stopped the cough but I still wasn't overly happy with the fuel pressure so back to DAP and got a DTT mechanical pump and a quad

The Cat filter I use is a 2 micron filter ultra high efficiency and is quite restrictive so I had to use the highest geared pulleys that came with the DTT pump, idle is 12 to 15 psi and max is 25 to 28 psi with the pressure spring cut a little shorter than it was as psi was a little high at max on the stock length with the high geared pulleys.

The DTT pump mounting bracket didn't quite sit flat to the sump face but this could be stamping differences on the sump for all I know, I just reshaped the bracket slightly.

 

I am more than happy with the DTT mechanical pump and my fuel pressure, I already had a fuel filter so didn't need or want to move from Cat filters, the DTT is cheaper than the fuel boss and this swayed my decision as import duty and tax into the UK  always hurts. It came with lines and fittings and I added a draw straw

I'm not knocking electrical fuel pumps I just decided a mechanical pump was for me, my fp goes up with rpm not down and I removed something electrical from an electrically challenged truck 

The point of this long post is whichever way mechanical or electrical it's best to do it right once.

  

[CUMMINSDIESELPWR]

18 hours ago, Mopar1973Man said:

Some of us just went for the AirDog 150 and still running after 250k miles. I only had to replace the pump motor. The OE AirDog was a 2G pump. That went the 250k miles. Now the 3G pump barely lasted 7k miles and failed with bad seal and ate the shaft bearing locked up. 4G pump 165 GPH now I'm rolling and we'll see how far the 4G AirDog does. So far its stable 15 to 17 PSI. 

i will agree, airdog was great then went crap and hopefully is good again, if someone wanted electric.  i was done with electric being a weak link in the chain and opted for mechanical, but its weak link is the belt which would take something extraordinary to break.

 

 

18 hours ago, dripley said:

I have lost 2 pumps. I believe they were 3g pumps. Both lssted about 4.5 years. Both replaced under warranty but was a headache. Hopefully the 4g lasts much longer. I am not knocking the mechanical pumps, just dont dont want to spend 6 or 7 hundred more to replace the whole system at this point.

if you have something that works, no point in replacing for sure.

14 hours ago, wil440 said:

When I got my truck the PO had just fitted a Fass pump that fits in the same place as the stock pump... I forget which Fass it was .. the cheapest. I noticed he hadn't fitted a fuel filter of any sort accept a pre pump canister filter similar to the old inline petrol filters,  luckily it hadn't done no miles on the pump before I got it so I fitted a Caterpillar filter head and Cat filter and went bigger lines from the pump onwards, I then got a bumper pull TT which was around 11 to 12k lbs loaded, this was before I got a fuel pressure gauge (doh).

I noticed that sometimes it would sort of cough for want of a better description when pulling hard so I spoke to @dieselautopower and got a fuel pressure gauge on it's way, very glad I did, fuel pressure was dropping too far and coincided with the cough.

I did some more pipework before the pump and also used a Cat inline prefilter before the pump which is used on Cat excavators with the C13 engine so big enough for me this stopped the cough but I still wasn't overly happy with the fuel pressure so back to DAP and got a DTT mechanical pump and a quad

The Cat filter I use is a 2 micron filter ultra high efficiency and is quite restrictive so I had to use the highest geared pulleys that came with the DTT pump, idle is 12 to 15 psi and max is 25 to 28 psi with the pressure spring cut a little shorter than it was as psi was a little high at max on the stock length with the high geared pulleys.

The DTT pump mounting bracket didn't quite sit flat to the sump face but this could be stamping differences on the sump for all I know, I just reshaped the bracket slightly.

 

I am more than happy with the DTT mechanical pump and my fuel pressure, I already had a fuel filter so didn't need or want to move from Cat filters, the DTT is cheaper than the fuel boss and this swayed my decision as import duty and tax into the UK  always hurts. It came with lines and fittings and I added a draw straw

I'm not knocking electrical fuel pumps I just decided a mechanical pump was for me, my fp goes up with rpm not down and I removed something electrical from an electrically challenged truck 

The point of this long post is whichever way mechanical or electrical it's best to do it right once.

  

the dtt looks like a internal gear pump and i know the fuel boss is an external fuel pump, both are positive pressure pumps though :D

 

that dtt looks nice though

Edited April 30, 2020 by CUMMINSDIESELPWR

[wil440]

24 minutes ago, CUMMINSDIESELPWR said:

the dtt looks like a internal gear pump and i know the fuel boss is an external fuel pump, both are positive pressure pumps though :D

 

that dtt looks nice though

The DTT is a gear pump, everything plus a little more in the kit, as I said I added a draw straw and dropped the tank to do that, only thing I would say is test the mounting bracket to make sure it sits flat to the sump flat area and doesn't sit on the strengthening flange as mine did, easy enough to sort out with a  small grinder or die grinder bit, I found one old post somewhere (not here) where a guy had the same problem but didn't notice it and pulled one sump thread due to the bracket sitting on the flange which effectively shortened the bolt and the amount of threads it had 

[Bullet]

Electric pumps are very capable at what they do...just not so much at how long they do it.  There hasn't yet been an electric motor invented that lasts anywhere close to forever...so pump failure is inevitable.  Electric pumps have fantastic warranties...and there will come a time when you will use it and have to perform repairs. 

 

Mechanicals are simple, overbuilt, constantly lubricated and have ridiculously slow spin rates...built for lifetime service.  Belt is the only possible failure point...they are cheap enough to carry spares and easy enough to replace anywhere.  Belt change interval is 75k miles.

 

As an electric pump owner I would worry when its last day will be, where I will be when it happens, if I will be able to get home without damaging my VP, how many days will it take to get the pump(s) in and perform the repair(s), and how will I get to work in the meantime.  As a mechanical pump owner I worry if I left the iron on when I left the house.

[Cronus577]

Despite what everyone is saying, my truck had the same symptoms as yours, instant crank when cold but long crank / no start when hot. Ended up just being the fuel pressure regulator banjo bolt on the side of the VP44. After I replaced that it hasn't had any issues, cheap part and only takes a few minutes to change. Worth the price before assuming the VP44 is toast. 

[dave110]

Mechanical things are built for a lifetime of service. Interesting theory. The vacuum pump is mechanical. Mine didn't last a lifetime. In fact if mechanical things lasted a lifetime then my 53 block wouldn't have cracked, my torque converter wouldn't have wore out, my unit bearings wouldn't have came apart, and my dash wouldn't have fell apart swapping out my heater core that never would have leaked. As far as electrical failures on my truck I did replace a window motor once. Oh, and an alternator but only because the pulley nut came off and the threads got messed up when it and the pulley took off for the other side of the earth. Really that was a mechanical failure too. Anything that moves can, does and will fail at some point or we wouldn't all be here sharing info. on how to fix it. I don't want to start a war but I don't think it's fair to say a mechanical pump will last forever and an electric one will have problems. I'm usually the exception to the rule but I just have not had the issues everyone seems to have with electric LP's. I guess once the belt drives are around as long as the motor drives then we'll have a better idea on how long they last.

[Bullet]

 

23 minutes ago, dave110 said:

Mechanical things are built for a lifetime of service. Interesting theory. The vacuum pump is mechanical. Mine didn't last a lifetime. In fact if mechanical things lasted a lifetime then my 53 block wouldn't have cracked, my torque converter wouldn't have wore out, my unit bearings wouldn't have came apart, and my dash wouldn't have fell apart swapping out my heater core that never would have leaked. As far as electrical failures on my truck I did replace a window motor once. Oh, and an alternator but only because the pulley nut came off and the threads got messed up when it and the pulley took off for the other side of the earth. Really that was a mechanical failure too. Anything that moves can, does and will fail at some point or we wouldn't all be here sharing info. on how to fix it. I don't want to start a war but I don't think it's fair to say a mechanical pump will last forever and an electric one will have problems. I'm usually the exception to the rule but I just have not had the issues everyone seems to have with electric LP's. I guess once the belt drives are around as long as the motor drives then we'll have a better idea on how long they last.

It's funny that you say you don't want to start an argument then misquote me and then give examples that have nothing to do with what I said.  My ex-girlfriend used to do that too...thanks for reminding me of her.

 

I don't remember discussing vacuum pumps or engine blocks.  I spoke specifically of the mechanical fuel pump vs the electric.  You can can conflate my remarks if you would like but if at the same time you are going to argue that the electric pumps are just as reliable and long lasting as the mechanical pumps then I imagine I won't be the only one having a laugh at your expense.  Mechanicals have been around plenty long enough to determine their longevity compared to electrics so the evidence is pretty obvious to most.  A minimal amount of reading on the subject will make it obvious to you as well.  Many threads out there about multiple warranty replacements on electric pumps.  Where's all the threads about mechanical pumps going bad...where's any...where's one?  You are lucky to not have had an issue yet...I hope you didn't just jinx yourself.

[dave110]

Wow. You took that different than I meant it. It wasn't even aimed directly at you, which is why I didn't quote your post as you said. I surely offended you though and for that I'm sorry. Didn't mean to ruin your evening. 

[Bullet]

1 hour ago, dave110 said:

Wow. You took that different than I meant it. It wasn't even aimed directly at you, which is why I didn't quote your post as you said. I surely offended you though and for that I'm sorry. Didn't mean to ruin your evening. 

No worries Dave...not offended at all and my evening hasn't suffered any.  I read it as sarcastic so I merely just hit the ball back over the net.  I apologize if I misread your words and/or offended you.  Personally I enjoy a little friendly fire every so often so definitely no hard feelings here.  I hope we can remain forum friends...I have always appreciated your posts and opinions here. 

[dave110]

12 hours ago, Bullet said:

No worries Dave...not offended at all and my evening hasn't suffered any.  I read it as sarcastic so I merely just hit the ball back over the net.  I apologize if I misread your words and/or offended you.  Personally I enjoy a little friendly fire every so often so definitely no hard feelings here.  I hope we can remain forum friends...I have always appreciated your posts and opinions here. 

Good deal. Hey, thanks for the beer 

[CUMMINSDIESELPWR]

hugs for everybody!

 

 

i think to better surmise the comparison, mechanical pumps have a higher propensity to last longer if not many times longer than electric pumps.

Edited May 15, 2020 by CUMMINSDIESELPWR

[Bullet]

2 minutes ago, CUMMINSDIESELPWR said:

hugs for everybody!

 

 

i think to better surmise the comparison, mechanical pumps have a higher propensity to last longer if not many times longer than electric pumps.

No hug for you...got something better... 

[CUMMINSDIESELPWR]

11 hours ago, Bullet said:

No hug for you...got something better... 

 

HAHAHAHAHA  who dropped the soap