A Shutter, a stutter, a miss?

[Alexio Auditore]

So, for a while, I thought maybe I was breaking traction in the high gears, 5th and 6th, when I would pour the coal to it, usually the roads were a little wet, so I couldn't confirm for sure, but I had my doubts. Saturday, my wife and I are driving home, I hit the free way, trucks warmed up to temp, and I accelerate like normal to merge up to speed, but I could definitely tell something felt off.

 

Under normal driving, I dont notice the truck missing or stuttering at all, like cruising speeds,, but when I lay into it pretty good, it has what I can only describe as a miss, but the truck doesn't sound like it's missing. You just feel it, even my wife said she noticed it. I slowed down and couple times and sped up quick, and would get the same thing to happen. Its hard to do in the lower gears, 5th and 6th I have more rpm range to test it, but what could it be?

 

No codes

 

Clutch has 80k or so on it, southbend

 

Injectors are God knows how old, so there's another possibility. 

 

Fuel pressure does what its done for years, it drops, but not enough to starve to i.p. 

 

Any other ideas? If its injectors, then I'll probably do those along with getting the head surfaced( leaking coolant from passenger side)

[Great work!]

Have you tried it with out any tuners. Clean battery terminals. Has WT-mod been done?

[Tractorman]

6 hours ago, Alexio Auditore said:

but when I lay into it pretty good, it has what I can only describe as a miss, but the truck doesn't sound like it's missing. You just feel it, even my wife said she noticed it. I slowed down and couple times and sped up quick, and would get the same thing to happen. Its hard to do in the lower gears, 5th and 6th I have more rpm range to test it,

 

You are describing something very similar that happened to me.  It did turn out to be an engine miss under the same driving conditions as you are describing.  Mine started just after I installed RV275 injectors.  I didn't notice it immediately because I wasn't driving anywhere to utilize the power.  It showed up on my first tow (only pulling a 4,000 lb trailer), mostly when accelerating in 6th gear.  It felt like when a gas engine has an irregular ignition miss and, like you say, I couldn't hear it but I could feel it under a load in the higher gears.  For awhile I even thought it could be mechanical.  This haunted me for about 18,000 miles.  I use a Smarty S03 tuner and I even set it back to stock.  The miss disappeared, but so did the engine torque.  To me the test was inconclusive.  

I lived with it and tried various things - I even replaced the transmission mount - all to no avail.  Last December I was getting tired of hearing the timing rattle (enhanced by winter blend fuel where I now live) so I set the timing back to stock and left the rest of the tune alone.  Timing rattle gone and no engine miss!  Under any condition!   I left the timing set at stock, even through the summer.  Periodically, I advance the timing just for a test and sure enough the miss returns.  Running stock timing has had no adverse effect on performance or fuel economy.

 

May not be your issue, but then again...,

 

- John

[Alexio Auditore]

6 hours ago, Great work! said:

Have you tried it with out any tuners. Clean battery terminals. Has WT-mod been done?

Ya, clean terminals, w.t. mod done.

 

Maybe it has something to do with the timing.. could be the edge ez, or something that effects the timing like the air temp?

 

Its been cool up here, and like I said, I don't remember it doing this a couple months back when the weather was warmer....

 

Edge ez has been in for 8 years

[dripley]

I had a very similar issue myself about 4 or 5 years ago. It was an irregular miss but not a dead miss. More like a cylinder only got a half shot fuel. You knew it was there but not alarming like a dead misswas. It was only present in the higher gears on heavy throttle like getting on the interstate. At the time I had an old set of RV275'S with about 150k on them. I dont remember whether I disconneted the comp to see if it made any difference or not. I like to think I did but.... I do know a new set of injectors cured it.

 It would also happen on level 3 as well as level 5. Level 3 on my comp is the same as level 3 on your EZ. I am thinking injectors if yours are old and have high a lot miles on them. Also this pre WT's ground mod, new cables and other electrical things I have done since.

[LorenS]

Worn out injectors pop early, aka advanced. With unknown miles on yours, that may be a good place to start.

[Tractorman]

3 hours ago, dripley said:

I had a very similar issue myself about 4 or 5 years ago. It was an irregular miss but not a dead miss. More like a cylinder only got a half shot fuel. You knew it was there but not alarming like a dead misswas. It was only present in the higher gears on heavy throttle like getting on the interstate. At the time I had an old set of RV275'S with about 150k on them.

 

Interesting what you describe - I was having the same symptoms.   I never considered an injector issue since the RV275 injectors were new when this started happening on my truck.  One thing I didn't mention is that the miss would go away when I used cruise control, even when it was pulling hard in 6th gear climbing a long grade.  That kind of threw me a curve.  I wondered if the ECM altered timing when on cruise.  It was the only thing that made sense at the time.

 

So, now I am wondering if I got a new injector with low pop pressure right out of the box.  Maybe I am masking the problem by setting the timing to stock....?

 

@Alexio Auditore, you will have to let us know what fixes your engine miss.

 

- John

[Alexio Auditore]

Thanks everyone for the responses. Somethings on these trucks are odd, I haven't noticed a dip in fuel mileage or power, but sometimes that doesn't mean something isn't wrong. Ill probably start looking into injectors... any tips on what I should get? I believe these are after market sticks to begin with. 

 

I'll let you guys know what ends up happening, but it maybe a bit, if it gets worse, which it seems to be, ill have to do something sooner than later. 

 

Could a sensor be screwing with my timing? Does Intake temp sensor mess with timing?

Currently, im sitting between 360-400hp with chip on 3. 

 

These are numbers from the dyno at Alligator's Hunting For Horsepower, 400hp 8 years ago, 360 about 3 years ago. There dyno is kinda meh, so its around there. Supposedly they were 60 hp sticks

[dripley]

7 hours ago, Tractorman said:

 

Interesting what you describe - I was having the same symptoms.   I never considered an injector issue since the RV275 injectors were new when this started happening on my truck.  One thing I didn't mention is that the miss would go away when I used cruise control, even when it was pulling hard in 6th gear climbing a long grade.  That kind of threw me a curve.  I wondered if the ECM altered timing when on cruise.  It was the only thing that made sense at the time.

 

So, now I am wondering if I got a new injector with low pop pressure right out of the box.  Maybe I am masking the problem by setting the timing to stock....?

 

@Alexio Auditore, you will have to let us know what fixes your engine miss.

 

- John

The descriptions were so much alike that had to share mine. I known cruise control by passes the apps sensor from earlier problems I experience. As far as changing the timing I dont know. When I had some surging issues I would set the cruise and could still see the the throttle percentage increase and decrease but seldom overcame the cruise since l was cruise at a higher throttle percentage. Never tried cruise to see if the miss dissappeared. Weak injector out of the box, could be? It happens.

4 hours ago, Alexio Auditore said:

Thanks everyone for the responses. Somethings on these trucks are odd, I haven't noticed a dip in fuel mileage or power, but sometimes that doesn't mean something isn't wrong. Ill probably start looking into injectors... any tips on what I should get? I believe these are after market sticks to begin with. 

 

I'll let you guys know what ends up happening, but it maybe a bit, if it gets worse, which it seems to be, ill have to do something sooner than later. 

 

Could a sensor be screwing with my timing? Does Intake temp sensor mess with timing?

Currently, im sitting between 360-400hp with chip on 3. 

 

These are numbers from the dyno at Alligator's Hunting For Horsepower, 400hp 8 years ago, 360 about 3 years ago. There dyno is kinda meh, so its around there. Supposedly they were 60 hp sticks

I never lost any mileage even on the oe injectors qwith 250k on them. As far as power maybe I did. Hard to notice if the power is reduced on such an extended run. The only loss in mileage l ha e experienced is when l put the new VP on one year ago. Dropped from 19.5 to 18.5. I attribute this to not having the pump tapped. Don't want to ruin a perfectly good warrantee on a $1k part. I will be tapping the pump soon. I miss level 4 and 5. 

 

If your dyno 360 to 400hp you are doing pretty darn good in power. The wish me numbers, engine 235 or 245 + 60hp injectors, and 80 hp on the ez  add up to 375 or 385 hp. If you are over that at the wheels you are doing damn good.  Mine adds up to, 245 engine, 30 more for the rv's, and 120 in level 5 for a grand total of 395. Never dyno'd mine to know where it really stands.

 

Good luck on what to try. I still do think if your injectors are old and high mileage it is most likely what the problem is. But thats not a personal garauntee. Injectors are pretty reasonable for our 24 valves. 

 

Dave 

[Mopar1973Man]

17 hours ago, Alexio Auditore said:

Does Intake temp sensor mess with timing?

 

Yes only if the IAT falls below 80°F being the ECM is programmed to add another +3° to +4°of timing on cold air. Hence why the Mopar1973Man MPG Fooler fools to 143°F and MPG is gained back. Cold air hurts MPG's. 

 

How to check. Just turn the key to on and check the ECT and IAT temps at key on. If the ECT and IAT are the same then the sensor is fine. During this test don't use a block heater it will skew the results. Typically the IAT and ECT will be the same. If this checks out you just need more heat under the hood and keep the IAT warmer. Hence why I run winter fronts and BHAF can enjoy more under the hood warmth.

[jlwelding]

I had two edge ez's and both had corrosion on the inside. 

[Mopar1973Man]

Yup not the first time I've seen that...

[Alexio Auditore]

Checked the temps after work today, both were only a degree off from eachother. So I'm thinking its fine..

11 hours ago, Mopar1973Man said:

If this checks out you just need more heat under the hood and keep the IAT warmer. Hence why I run winter fronts and BHAF can enjoy more under the hood warmth.

Winter fronts, is that the cover you throw over the grill or radiator?

 

Heres a question that has never been asked on this website, if injectors are the issue, what do you guys recommend? 

 

 

[LorenS]

The standard answer is @dieselautopower, it's what I ordered on Monday. What to use with your Edge EZ, I haven't a clue.

 

I saw they list up to 100 HP injectors in their package deal with the Quadzilla version of the EZ, so surely 75, 90, or 100 should work with the EZ.

 

https://www.dieselautopower.com/dodge-ram-cummins/1998-5-2002-5-9l-24-valve-dodge-cummins/1998-5-2002cummins-fueling-and-injection/1998-5-2002cummins-fuel-injectors/re-manufactured-bosch-bodies?dir=asc&order=price

2 hours ago, Alexio Auditore said:

Winter fronts

Yes, any way to block off the openings in the grille.

Edited December 3, 2020 by LorenS

[dripley]

The rv275's have worked the best with the comp for me. Ran some 50's in it while back and they were to smokey and a bit toasty for my liking.

[dieselautopower]

Consider doing an adrenaline by itself instead of the EZ/Injectors combo.  It will give you gauges and custom tuning and enough power comparable to 100HP injectors and EZ.  

[Mopar1973Man]

Absolutely correct. Better gains on MPG once you get the timing dialed in on the Quadzilla and making better power with way less smoke. Well more smoke from the tires as they tend to spin from the extra power. 

[wil440]

I'd agree with a quad. Best thing I did on my truck and I haven't had time to tune anything just downloaded one tune for towing and one for when not towing. Truck runs a huge amount better. Just now need a trans build and I'm good to go 

[LorenS]

3 hours ago, dieselautopower said:

Consider doing an adrenaline by itself instead of the EZ/Injectors combo

But if his injectors are on the way out, then it's not an option to JUST do an adrenaline.

[Alexio Auditore]

I've considered the quad, but I do believe it will be the straw that breaks the camels back as far as the vp goes. 266k miles on the vp, I want it to last as long as I can. 

 

Plus, the quad adrenaline seems overwhelming for someone who does have a full understanding of the the timing curves and all that other jazz. But either way, I have to figure out the miss first...it could be the ez, but not sure yet.