Changed turbo and exhaust manifold - now I have white smoke under acceleration

[wil440]

1 hour ago, JAG1 said:

will440, did they place the bearing seals under a pressure test to theses turbos you saw being built? Thank you in advance Bud.

 

BTW, wish I could metal detect your place alone as you probably got history around your place. Ya never know.......

No I've never seen turbo oil seals tested they are build and forget as they usually are ok, kinda like a piston ring seal in the larger stuff.  Also in the larger stuff it is almost never done to rebuild a turbo, worn out is bin as engine is way too much ££ to mess around, some cat stuff doesn't even carry a core charge and typically removed between 10000hrs and 15000hrs to be safe alongside water pumps.

Quarry close to me replaced 4 engines in 2 6030 excavators last weekend, 32litre Cat engines which are also fitted in the 777 dumptruck...... just to be safe now that is big ££££.

 

Plenty of history around here Jag, do a search on Grace Dieu  ruins, 3 miles away, monastery 2 miles away, bradgate park ruins 8 miles away, loads of disused railway tracks that that idiot Beeching closed in the 60's one is just 200 yards from my house

 

Sorry derail alert !!!!  

 

[leety]

5 hours ago, wil440 said:

It's quite normal for turbos to be off, it would be put together on a jig lt could be the right jig or just a jig to get it together, I'm talking new manufacturer as typical these do not use skilled labour. I used to work for caterpillar and if 2% of the factory was skilled that would be it, old matey wouldn't have a clue why he is clocking a turbo mostly he wouldn't even know what it was in front of him. 

It did stay together correctly when you clocked it? This is more so if circlips hold it together 

Both exhaust and intake housings are held on to the bearing housing with bolts.  The turbo was off by 180 degrees when I got it.  I was able to lossen the bolts and rotate the parts without taking them off.  I checker with DAP first before I did it and that is what they told me to do. 

[AH64ID]

I’ve also never seen a NIB turbo with any evidence of being pressure tested. 

[JAG1]

Only reason I brought up the subject is this experience with Leety's new turbo and the danger in having a runaway engine. What would you do if you had an automatic Trans with no way to lug it down?

[dave110]

Put it in neutral?

[JAG1]

13 minutes ago, dave110 said:

Put it in neutral?

Yes, but no way to save the engine.

[wil440]

23 minutes ago, JAG1 said:

Only reason I brought up the subject is this experience with Leety's new turbo and the danger in having a runaway engine. What would you do if you had an automatic Trans with no way to lug it down?

Well detroit diesels were famous for the sump oil runaway being a 2 stroke diesel they had/have much less liner area as it's all intake port, liners then wear and it will suck engine oil, this goes on until BOOM, bit like a world war 2 shell going off with chunks everywhere, Detroit use a intake flap that shuts ALL air into the engine, but there is 2 drawbacks to this.

1.  Once flipped the intake shuts and Straight 6, V8 and V16 all with Roots superchargers manage to suck ALL engine seals inside out within a second, end result is a complete engine stripdown BUT at least engine parts are still in one piece and not in the next field and fished out the dirt with a magnet.

2. Downside number 2 is the worst, on the earlier Detroits certainly fitted to Terex dumptrucks the flap had a tiny lever on it painted red, this lever was under the long bonnet inbetween the V right next to the supercharger...... needed swingers like a bull elephant to get in there and flip that bad boy, seen one once when I was maybe 28..... every single person within 100yards ran off, me included.

 

So if a cummins does run away rip the aircleaner tube off and and put something over the turbo intake, preferably steel, certainly not your hand

In fact when something goes wrong with this site there is a movie comes up with a guy doing the same thing 

[JAG1]

In a runaway situation isn't it best to stay away from the turbo since it can blow, sending out shrapnell and cause serious injury?

[leety]

17 minutes ago, JAG1 said:

In a runaway situation isn't it best to stay away from the turbo since it can blow, sending out shrapnell and cause serious injury?

Yea I'm not trying to cozy up to that engine grenade. 

 

So the deal is if you  have a turbo diesel you must also have a manual transmission.  That would be an add on to my already established no automatic transmission policy.

[wil440]

Not typically the turbo that explodes first, the crank/rods/pistons have a much lower tolerance of RPM.

 

Think of it this way as long as the turbo has oil feed it's sort of ok but feed it engine internals and it will explode

Stop the air you will cut rpm no matter what the engine is using for fuel

 

I just remembered another 2 stroke, Rootes themselves made a smaller one, Rootes was a car manufacturer here up until the 60's but they made 2 stroke diesels for Commer and other trucks, these were reknown for running backwards, if you let the clutch out and it sort off nearly stalled it could easily run backwards, so you pull off in 1st it switches and you're in reverse which is one of 4 

Gardner diesels would also run backwards but they were 4 stroke these would start with next to no crank movement either foreward or backwards

 

I just remembered Chrysler bought out Rootes 

Edited December 22, 2020 by wil440

[AH64ID]

Blocking the turbo is the best way to shut it down. A thick piece of metal or large piece of wood. 
 

There isn’t a load on the engine so the rpms climb quickly, which is what damages the engine. Minimal load means minimal exhaust, which won’t overdrive the turbo rpms. 

[dave110]

5 hours ago, leety said:

Yea I'm not trying to cozy up to that engine grenade. 

 

So the deal is if you  have a turbo diesel you must also have a manual transmission.  That would be an add on to my already established no automatic transmission policy.

I would think trying to stall stop a runaway Cummins with the anemic Dodge brakes would be a chore no matter what transmission, but if I had to do it I'd use my lockup switch after I had the truck itself stopped and off the road. Hopefully I'll never have to do it.

[wil440]

10 hours ago, dave110 said:

I'd use my lockup switch after I had the truck itself stopped and off the road

My guess on that would be 

Parts List

1 torque convertor

1. transmission

1. Engine

2. front fenders

1. Hood

1.Windshield

And whatever else the shrapnel took out 

[That Guy]

I just had a thought, if the road draft tube was clogged/blocked for some reason, it will either blow out the tappet gasket or blow out the turbo seal.... I've seen both. 

 

That said, this seems far more like a crib death than blocked vent considering it was fine before. Still worth a peak under to see if the almost iconic constant draft/haze from the tube is unobstructed.

 

Still sucks to get a DOA turbo, and warranties almost never cover other consumables or downtime.

[dave110]

12 hours ago, wil440 said:

My guess on that would be 

Parts List

1 torque convertor

1. transmission

1. Engine

2. front fenders

1. Hood

1.Windshield

And whatever else the shrapnel took out 

I agree, and I doubt a manual would fare much better at the task. Stall stopping was brought up which is why I mentioned it. As you said the only good way to stop a runaway is to block the air intake. I suppose if one were worried about it a piece of 3/4 plywood could be kept in the engine bay for just such an occasion. I'm told a hose clamp works in a pinch too. Heck I'd even stuff a chicken in there if there was one around at the time. On second thought catching a chicken involves running and bending over and with my back and knees I's just as soon replace the engine again.

[wil440]

5.9 isn't known for runaways so mainly no problem, maybe a precaution  to have something to block off intake when changing  turbos

this was meant to happen but still dramatic

 

https://www.thedrive.com/news/36023/the-aftermath-of-a-diesel-engine-that-ran-full-throttle-for-eight-minutes

[That Guy]

The intercooler will hold several gallons before it starts to get sucked into the intake. 

 

Neighbor has a tractor that he claimed was smoking horribly. It was leaking from the compressor seal and the turbo was seized... ran like that for almost 6 months. Never had issues with it running away or not wanting to stop. Burned about 2 quarts per hour. Non intercooled turbo literally blows vertically straight down into the intake plenum.

[leety]

9 hours ago, wil440 said:

5.9 isn't known for runaways so mainly no problem, maybe a precaution  to have something to block off intake when changing  turbos

this was meant to happen but still dramatic

 

https://www.thedrive.com/news/36023/the-aftermath-of-a-diesel-engine-that-ran-full-throttle-for-eight-minutes

Well that was fun!!!  Thanks for sharing it

 

[AH64ID]

Any updates @leety?

[leety]

17 minutes ago, AH64ID said:

Any updates @leety?

I sent the upgrade turbo back for evaluation.  Oil found its way in my exhaust pipe and intercooler.  It almost seemed like the return oil line was clogged or something.  I checked the oil return line to see if I had any clogage and found no evidence of that.  I'm waiting to hear back from DAP on the turbo.  

 

I had to pull all things cool air apart and clean everything up all the way to the intake.  Cleaned the intercooler out, which it needed anyways.  When I purchased the truck the boots had been torn for awhile so that was already on my todo list.

 

The fuel leak was coming from the top of the filter bowl.  The lid had backed off just enough to drip out a bit.

 

Got a new stock Holset cartridge from Becks Pacific and put that in for the time being.  That's something I wanted on my shelf as a just in case spare. Took it for a test drive today and there's still a bit of white smoke but nothing like before.  It was going away as I drove it.  Everything sounded and ran good so far. I'll get it out again tomorrow for a longer drive to see if it clears up all the way. I'll also do a block test on it just to be safe.