Trac-Loc Clutch replacement

[Blueox01]

I'm staring to feel a vibration from the differential when starting from a dead stop, especially when turning a corner, thinking my Trac-Loc is done, anyone ever R&R that carrier? I figure since there's no problem in the ring gear/pinion gear wear pattern, I should be able the replace those clutches with just pulling the axles (3500) non-weight bearing on the axles, just make sure I put back any shims that might be under the carrier bolts. Don't think I would have to even mess with pinion. Any thoughts? If I remember right when both wheels are off the ground,when a wheel is rotated both wheels should spin in same direction,right?

Edited December 28, 2020 by Blueox01

[AH64ID]

Even with a LSD the wheels will generally spin opposite directions. 
 

 

If you have to spend any money on the carrier I’d upgrade to a Tru-Trac. It will make any clutch style LSD’s whimper in shame. Helical gear LSD’s are better in nearly every scenario, aside from zero wheel speed. 
 

It’s unlikely I’d ever spend money on a clutch style LSD, unless it was to remove it. 

[Blueox01]

See I always thought regular Diff's Non Limited slip rotated in different directions. Anyway $275 for clutches VS $750+ and having to R&R ring gear, and that I just started feeling this, after 20years and 950K seams like less work and $$$$

[wil440]

Wouldn't hurt to change oil and add friction modifier first and while you draining it check for bits. 

As for rebuild you will need to either slightly press the casing top to bottom or make a tool which uses the 2 holes to do the same then separate the carrier if my memory serves me right 

[NIsaacs]

53 minutes ago, wil440 said:

Wouldn't hurt to change oil and add friction modifier first and while you draining it check for bits. 

As for rebuild you will need to either slightly press the casing top to bottom or make a tool which uses the 2 holes to do the same then separate the carrier if my memory serves me right 

 

 

I agree. When did you change it last and with what? Normally, when a Trac-Loc wears out the clutch's, you just have an open diff, no unusual operation. If you are getting clutch chatter when you turn, an oil change is in order. Generally, this only happens when the axle has been run and is warm. Cold, they rarely show any unusual activity.

 

If you do rebuild the clutch's, be sure and get a complete rebuild kit, including center pin, axle gears and spider gears. Like this:

 

https://torqueking.com/product/40430/qu40430-dana-80-trac-lok-dana-inner-differential-parts-overhaul-kit/

 

Again, if you do repair the clutch's, there are no shims to mess with. The carrier will  just fall out and fall back together. The reason being, the carrier bearings/races will be worn/loose. If they are bad, you will need to change them. This is where shims come into play (they are behind the bearings) and they (bearings) press on and off. This is also a very difficult process and will require experience in Dana set up. The Dana axle is the most difficult of all axles to rebuild/set up.

 

What wil440 is talking about is a housing spreader. The Dana housing should be spread for easier install of the carrier with new bearings. However, it can be done without one, just takes longer and ya gotta cuss a lot, Lol.

 

This is one area where I disagree with John.....The Trac-Loc is a fine, strong, long wearing unit and will almost last forever with good maintenance. He is an off highway guru, lol.

 

Most good quality gear oil has the friction modifier included, read the specs. If not, you need the additive. Since you tow, I recommend 85/140 regular oil or 75/140 synthetic .

 

Additive:

 

https://torqueking.com/product/40218/qu40218-dana-4-ounce-bottle-limited-slip-lube-for-powr-loc-trac-loc/

 

Picture of open and limited slip: 

 

 

[Blueox01]

I think last change was with Castrol Limited slip gear oil 90/140, Was supposed not to need additive, after chatter started added 8ox of additive, no change. Opened cover smells burned.

[AH64ID]

@NIsaacs has a lot more experience with the Trac-Loc than I do. Last time I ran one was in a 1998 Ranger. I hated it, thou I’m sure you never guessed.  Unpredictable on snow/ice, no added support in dirt. Scary on slick off camber roads. I had run one in a precious Ranger too, but didn’t learn. You know what they say about fool me twice... it gets expensive after that 
 

Anyhow, sold the Ranger and bought a 95 4Runner and put an ARB in it. Traction when needed and open when on snow/ice loved it. Sold the 4runner and bought a Tacoma with a e-locker, like the ARB I loved it. Sold the Taco and bought my 05. Was about to buy a tru-trac and remove the OEM LSD when I learned it was helical too and left it. I’ve been very happy with it, especially for how I use the truck.  The 18 has the same OEM helical LSD. 
 

I’d love to get a tru-trac in the front of the 18, but have a hard time justifying it to my adult self. 

Edited December 28, 2020 by AH64ID

[Mopar1973Man]

One of the few reasons I love my standard open diff only one wheel spins per axle. Still keep my traction. Last trip back from Lewiston coming up Whitebird I felt the rear tire slip a bit but she kept tracking straight on. 

 

 

[Blueox01]

8 hours ago, wil440 said:

Wouldn't hurt to change oil and add friction modifier first and while you draining it check for bits. 

As for rebuild you will need to either slightly press the casing top to bottom or make a tool which uses the 2 holes to do the same then separate the carrier if my memory serves me right 

Are you talking about the Clutch carrier needs to have pressure when separating?

[LorenS]

14 hours ago, Blueox01 said:

anyone ever R&R that carrier?

This is currently on my agenda for tomorrow. My spiders and side gears were pretty loose 40k miles ago so she's get those parts, too. Kit from East Coast Gear Supply:

Looks like it's only an extra $50 for those parts versus just changing the clutches and steels.

https://eastcoastgearsupply.com/c-284521-gears-install-kits-carriers-spider-gears-dana-spicer-gears-dana-80-d80-dana-80-carriers-spider-gears-small-parts.html

 

 

 

[Blueox01]

1 hour ago, LorenS said:

This is currently on my agenda for tomorrow. My spiders and side gears were pretty loose 40k miles ago so she's get those parts, too. Kit from East Coast Gear Supply:

Looks like it's only an extra $50 for those parts versus just changing the clutches and steels.

https://eastcoastgearsupply.com/c-284521-gears-install-kits-carriers-spider-gears-dana-spicer-gears-dana-80-d80-dana-80-carriers-spider-gears-small-parts.html

 

 

 

Let me know how it goes.

12 hours ago, wil440 said:

Wouldn't hurt to change oil and add friction modifier first and while you draining it check for bits. 

As for rebuild you will need to either slightly press the casing top to bottom or make a tool which uses the 2 holes to do the same then separate the carrier if my memory serves me right 

Found that last time I used Lucas 85/140 It supposedly has the additive in it.

[wil440]

6 hours ago, Blueox01 said:

Are you talking about the Clutch carrier needs to have pressure when separating?

The axle casing needs stretching slightly (for want of a better description) to get the carrier out, either side of the cover you will see 2 holes maybe 1/2" ish diameter this is where it fits

https://www.randysworldwide.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/Dana_Spicer_Housing_Spreader.pdf

 

It looks scary but it's not, I've done a few 

[IBMobile]

I've pulled a lot of Dana differentials apart.  Volvo used a Dana 30 in their 240 model and the 31 in the 740/940 model.   Yes a spreader is nice to have to get the carrier out but I've seen mechanics use a big pry bar to get them out.  When putting it back in a spreader is definitely need. 

 

The Dana differential are well built with tight machined tolerances.   If you use the same carrier, ring and pion then, the side gears, spider gears, and all bearings can be replaced by using the same shims in the same places.   I've done this dozens of times replacing spider gears , carrier and pion bearings.  I even did a ring and pion change out once using the same shims with out a problem.   

 

Be sure the carrier bearing retaining caps are marked before removing them so they go back the same way they came off.  Some times the cap and housing would be marked from the factory with an A on one side and a B on the other.  If they aren't marked use a punch to mark them; one dot on the top of left cap and housing and two dots on the top right side cap and housing.

[Joe_Pool]

Might also check cmgearworks.com

Large supplier of OEM Dana/Spicer parts (located in Springfield, MO)

 

Dana/Spicer 2003857 TL overhaul kit 295.00 [Dana 80, 35 spline, Dodge & Ford]

Clutches only 225.00  [old p/n 2003819 -- new p/n 702009, for D70 or D80]

Edited December 29, 2020 by Joe_Pool
To add information

[Blueox01]

19 hours ago, wil440 said:

The axle casing needs stretching slightly (for want of a better description) to get the carrier out, either side of the cover you will see 2 holes maybe 1/2" ish diameter this is where it fits

https://www.randysworldwide.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/Dana_Spicer_Housing_Spreader.pdf

 

It looks scary but it's not, I've done a few 

I think I'm going to just service it this time, all the gears, R&P/spiders look good. Trying to clean some of the sludge that has built up over the miles out, then have some Lucas SYN 75W-140 and Trans X LSD additive to go back in. I'm starting to wonder if my rear springs are causing the shudder/chatter I'm hearing, all the pads between the leafs are gone, I can see a slight ridge between leafs, I had ordered a new set of #8800 springs to install, going to see what that does..

Edited December 29, 2020 by Blueox01

[Joe_Pool]

Check local rental yard -- you may be able to rent a case spreader (be sure to have a dial indicator -- no more than .015" spread!).

[LorenS]

I replaced all the carrier guts today. As I removed the bearing caps the whole assembly would've fallen on the floor - or my feet - if it hadn't been for the rear sway bar! So, she got new carrier bearings today, too.

 

All in all pretty simple. Would've been fast, but those bearings are probably best PULLED off, versus pushed off with a press. Getting everything blocked up correctly was the time consuming part.  And dumping in 4 qts of Amsoil 75W-110 was an exercise in patience, as well. Next time I hope to add an auxillary fill plug, and a sight glass in the factory fill hole.

[Blueox01]

Did you need a spreader to widen the case?

[LorenS]

8 minutes ago, Blueox01 said:

Did you need a spreader to widen the case?

I sure didn't to get it out - like I said, it about fell on the floor!

Didn't use one for reinstall, but probably should have. If by myself it would have been necessary.

 

I bought a cheap spreader off of Amazon but forgot to grab it when I went to my dad's to use the lift.

[Blueox01]

9 minutes ago, LorenS said:

I sure didn't to get it out - like I said, it about fell on the floor!

Didn't use one for reinstall, but probably should have. If by myself it would have been necessary.

 

I bought a cheap spreader off of Amazon but forgot to grab it when I went to my dad's to use the lift.

Yeah, that's what I was worried about, it falling on the floor! Did You end up getting one of those Turbos of Benzforce?