2012 Range Rover...... not foreign to me but a right POS

[wil440]

My brother has a 2012 range rover 6 cylinder V6 diesel, he did about 6 hours work with me last night servicing and repairs to  a Cat 950H on a site I look after in return for me doing a fault on a range rover POS

Fault is low boost code P1247 turns out the intake manifold right hand side (plastic FFS)  is cracked, believe it or not it is also the cam cover, it has took 8 hrs to get the cover off, no access to anything at all, brother tells me IF the 2 turbos (1 each side) need replacing it's £5K to take the body off to get to them and after looking this is the way to do turbos on this junk.

I have been a  proper UK apprentiship trained diesel mechanic for 43 years and the idiots that designed rubbish this should be shot, just utter mechanical garbage, I have never in my life seen so many sensors in such a small space.

here's one, a bolt screws into a bracket holding lines  the head is 1/4" from the bulkhead right under the scuttle panel where the wipers poke through, screws in from the BACK, bolt is 1" long and it pokes through the bracket and stops the whole intake/cam cover from coming up and off, if it's undone it never comes out far enough to just lift off the cover, might just stove a hole in the bulkhead to put the new piece back on.

here's a tip from the UK...... DO NOT ever buy any Range Rover newer than mid 90's cos boy are they dog s### and if you come across one with the driver thinking he's the dogs just laugh and smile cos they are really a joke

Trying to get my brother into a  2nd gen ram but I'm struggling with it as he's clown

[IBMobile]

Do it, just drill the hole or punch it through the firewall (bulkhead).   In the late 70's and early 80's The camshaft lobs and rocker arms were going flat in the Volvo B27 V-6 engine due to lack of oiling between them.   The easiest way to replace the cam shaft and rocker arms was to slid the shaft the rock arms road on to the firewall, mark where the shaft made contact,  drill a hole there. and finish by sliding the shaft through the hole into the passenger compartment.  Next was to slide the cam shaft to the firewall and drill another bigger hole for for it to slide through then I'd go to the other side of the engine and do the same thing there.   

Edited June 10, 2021 by IBMobile

[dripley]

Damn boys, none of that sounds like any fun at all.

[IBMobile]

All of these new cars are a POS to work on.   Every thing crammed into a small engine compartment where you have to take four things off to get to the problem or like the Ford trucks where you have to take the cab off of the chassis to work on the engine.  Engine parts made of plastic or carbon fiber that last until the warranty is up.  They should stake the engineers to an ant hill with honey on their   

[wil440]

well I agree with all the above.... finally got it off last night, it's wet with oil on the outside and a local LR specialist had already took a look and said straight away that was the problem.

 seperate areas to it, 6 intake runners, 3 injectors tubes, these sit in the head but pass through this cover/intake manifold, camshaft cover

https://rimmerbros.com/Item--i-LR032724--SelectedCurrency-1?gclid=Cj0KCQjw8IaGBhCHARIsAGIRRYrkU39k2cVyeCSvvNzocxZpQFVBLVFxyT6Cv6M_gMBfRye86-Kw5UoaAh2eEALw_wcB

 

https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/land-rover/range-rover/100621/tdv6-27-litre-diesel-engine

 

Worst thing is he's been talking to a guy about a deal on a 2000 ram 1500 5.2, yes I know a 1500 but hey start somewhere I say.  About half way into getting this cover off the guy messages my brother and said he'd swap the ram for the RR and give my brother £1500 cash, we had gone too far to put it back together by this time

it's a gen 2 2wd QCSB, recently painted, trans rebuilt, rear axle rebuilt, heater core, intake gasket, radiator, headers, twin exhaust and a load more, I'm trying to tell him compared to his RR the ram would be easy to maintain

and another guy with a early gen 3  2wd with the 5.9 v8

 

 

Here's another...... we go on about cool diesel and lowering diesel temps, this thing has common rail, both left and right sit right above the exhaust and egr valves, remove the common rail and then strip the egr valve in a gap around 2" wide because one of the cover bolts is behind the mounting bracket for the egr and another bolt for the bracket wont come out until the egr motor is removed.

This job in the RR specialists close by is over £1k

Edited June 11, 2021 by wil440

[JAG1]

My hearing must be bad... you say they're making engine parts from reinforced plastic? 

[Silverwolf2691]

@JAG1, Large amount of intake manifolds are plastic. Valve covers too.

 

All post 2003? Hemis, LS motors, the EcoDiesels (dont start me on those. Had one. No issues but stupidity abounds with those motors), most of the V6's from Dodge I think.. All plastic intake manifolds. 

 

All in the name of thermal efficiency, weight, cost, and emissions.

 

Unless I'm missing some sarcasm...   

[wil440]

9 hours ago, JAG1 said:

My hearing must be bad... you say they're making engine parts from reinforced plastic? 

Your hearing must be really bad there mate...... no mention of reinforced, it is just plastic, melt your soda bottle, dye it black and thats about it

Apparently it's a known problem, original part was made too thin   Now these designers who BTW call themselves engineers (couldn't engineer there way out of a paper bag) couldn't figure out that plastic/heat/expansion spells failure, it is all bolted to an aluminium head and I'll bet the two expand at just the same rate NOT

[Dieselfuture]

I believe it's all by design...

[JAG1]

3 hours ago, Dieselfuture said:

I believe it's all by design...

planned failure incorporated into the cost  of keeping it running. Deiselfuture can keep a truck running for years on returned beer cans.

 

Ever notice there aren't many stores selling LR parts? That's because there's so many broke down the side of the road abandoned, you just take what you need. Sorry Will440 

Edited June 12, 2021 by JAG1

[IBMobile]

1 hour ago, JAG1 said:

Ever notice there aren't many stores selling LR parts?

What are "LR parts"?     

[wil440]

LR = Landrover

4 hours ago, JAG1 said:

planned failure incorporated into the cost  of keeping it running. Deiselfuture can keep a truck running for years on returned beer cans.

 

Ever notice there aren't many stores selling LR parts? That's because there's so many broke down the side of the road abandoned, you just take what you need. Sorry Will440 

 

 

LR and RR used to be the best 4x4 you could buy here IF you wanted the vehicle to work, the series 1, 2 and 3  offroad where unbeatable, on road they were noisy,slow and underpowered and horrible to drive until 4 low was engaged and offroad 

The 90's and 110's  were better both on and off road, I used to compete in trials in a 1983 110, I have lots of pictures somewhere, in one I'm driving through water 6" up the windscreen, it did have a snorkel to the roof line

Early Range Rovers were good too, here they made a great base for a landrover by using the RR 100" chassis and cutting a series 2 or 3 body to fit, or make a pickup out of a RR

They went rubbish after owned by Ford

[Silverwolf2691]

9 hours ago, IBMobile said:

What are "LR parts"?     

 

LR = Land Rover

RR = Range Rover (90% sure on this one)

[JAG1]

Things keep going the direction they're going and a nice second gen be worth 100K. It's a crazy world isn't it?

[Mopar1973Man]

I've got a gent just down the road from me wants $25,000 for his 2nd gen. Between the brand new flatbed, and other new items I can see why. 

[wil440]

Finally I might have convinced my brother to get a Ram

There is a Gen 2 2wd diesel QCLB on ebay right now but while the guy is interested in my brothers RR he wants cash 

2nd gen 1500 5.2 looks good and clean this guy would throw 2k and swap

 

Finally quite local (50miles away) a 3rd gen 1500  5.9V8 QCSB, wrapped in bright green, pictures looked great so off we go, owner assured us it was great, got there and the thing had been lower right to the ground, front edge of the fuel tank was 4" off of the road, sleeping policeman (as a speed hump is called here) would have ripped the tank off.

Chassis at the rear was notched and badly,  bed floor cut out and replaced again badly with aluminium, whole interior painted black including the leather seats and also including the drivers side rip in the leather.

Aluminium radiator with 2 electric fans, no inner front fenders, air con removed, air filter box removed and a pancake filter housing with a K&N

Some time and money had been spent on the exhaust with a diverter valve and stainless silencer so quiet and loud BUT CAT removed and I know 100% from experience that a 5.9 petrol Ram without a CAT will not pass emissions test here in the UK as I took my 3500 for a quick check without a cat when mine fell apart.

I don't like Gen 3 2wd 1500's at all so I wasn't really that bothered but if it had been a gen 2 I wouldn't have been able to hold my tongue,although  I did tell him that he'd reduced it to scrap

[Dieselfuture]

Personally I would not touch a 1500 ram with a 100 foot pole, just my experience. 

[wil440]

16 hours ago, Dieselfuture said:

Personally I would not touch a 1500 ram with a 100 foot pole, just my experience. 

I know what you're saying but it is a whole different ball game here, most that have been imported are 1500's, the people that buy them don't tow trailers full of wood/cows/horses/boats etc etc etc, due to fuel costs here they are just a car and usually never used for what they were designed for, here the work pickup is and it banes me to say always from Japan ie Mitsubishi, Nissan or Toyota or EU as the VW Amarok is everywhere, there is also other EU car makers getting into pickups even I think merc

Ford have a range of r/h/d trucks but if the rest of Turds vehicles are anything to go by then thats a no.

So for here a 1500 ram makes the rest look like toys 

He's seeing one tomorrow, 2000 2nd gen 1500 2wd 5.2 QCSB owner is driving up from Brighton maybe 200 plus miles, going to fill it with fuel and gas (it's on propane too which drops fuel costs by 1/2) and give him 2k. it will easily tow his work welding trailer (he starts working for himself next week and  a RR is no more use than a chocolate fireguard)

The ram has had a rear end rebuild as you do, trans has been rebuilt front end rebuilt and truck painted, my brother has told the owner who specialises in RR rubbish that I'll be looking it over and dropping my Modis on it and I've had 2gen ram for 18 years and If I find anything he takes it back.....

[wil440]

He's done the deal, 1 2012 RR sport for 1 2000 5.2 1500 plus 2k and a full fuel tank and a full propane tank, I couldn't resist telling the guy that the ram in 5 years will be worth more than the RR pos, better for me as I now fix a ram instead of real garbage, 

And more to the point it just might have motivated me to fix my 3500

And while I'm on this track @Mopar1973Man could you maybe sort out a gas ram section, a lot of stuff carries over anyway, I have both a 98.5 diesel and a 98 gas 5.9, guess what as a driver I prefer the 3500 5.9V8, but as a tow vehicle the 98.5 24v does it but my 3500 hasn't towed my 5th as it's off the road rusting so I cannot compare

I think here in the uk diesels will be done within the next 5 years or at least taxed off the road

[01cummins4ever]

2 hours ago, wil440 said:

 

And while I'm on this track @Mopar1973Man could you maybe sort out a gas ram section, 

This is probably covered in the Mopar Dodge Chrysler forum.

 

2 hours ago, wil440 said:

I think here in the uk diesels will be done within the next 5 years or at least taxed off the road