2001 3500 "Y" steering upgrade?

[Doubletrouble]

 I have an '01 3500 dually and am finding myself experiencing the occasional "death wobble" I have replaced the track bar. Need to get under there and check all the steering joints now along with the ball joints for play.

 If I need to replace several I would rather look into an upgrade. Been doing some reading online, apparently there was a factory option for heavy duty steering? Which was a T steering setup?

  If not, what would be a direct bolt on T setup? I don't really want to have to change the taper on the knuckles or do any mods if not required. Just curious what my options are. Thanks in advance.

[IBMobile]

See  if these two articles would help.

 https://mopar1973man.com/cummins/articles.html/24-valve-2nd-generation_50/53_axles-suspension-brakes/00-02-hd-steering-upgrade-r372/

 

https://mopar1973man.com/cummins/articles.html/12-valve-2nd-generation/axles-suspension-brakes/98-99-hd-steering-conversion-r188/

[Haggar]

DT,

 

A lot of "death wobble" is caster related.  Look at your control arms and bushings closely.  Max out the length of the lower control arm.  (since caster is not adjustable, the only thing we can do is rotate the axle)

 

GL

HTH

Hag

[Silverwolf2691]

15 hours ago, Doubletrouble said:

 I have an '01 3500 dually and am finding myself experiencing the occasional "death wobble" I have replaced the track bar. Need to get under there and check all the steering joints now along with the ball joints for play.

 If I need to replace several I would rather look into an upgrade. Been doing some reading online, apparently there was a factory option for heavy duty steering? Which was a T steering setup?

  If not, what would be a direct bolt on T setup? I don't really want to have to change the taper on the knuckles or do any mods if not required. Just curious what my options are. Thanks in advance.

 

There are factory options, there are also aftermarket options. I have a Synergy Mfg. steering setup, its a t-style and I have had no issues so far. No dead spot at steering center, haven't had to touch them for a long time (besides greasing). I did however completely remove the steering stabilizer shock. I didn't feel it was needed. It is expensive at $930 but if you need tie rod ends they are $45 each (plus $20 for the low misalignment dust boots that attach to the knuckles.)

 

If I had to do it over again I think I would go with Dodge Off Road's steering setup, with EMF heim joints. I like the precision and lack of play that heims have, and EMF heims are adjustable and rebuildable so you dont need an all new entire joint every time it wears out. 

[Tractorman]

2 hours ago, Haggar said:

A lot of "death wobble" is caster related.  Look at your control arms and bushings closely.  Max out the length of the lower control arm.  

 

I agree with greatly increasing caster.  I did this 10 years and almost 200,000 miles ago.  After the adjustment I had the caster angle checked - it was 4.5° positive.  This modification is  the single most steering improvement I have done on my truck.  I once considered replacing my steering with the T type, but after changing the caster angle and replacing the track bar with a Rare Parts track bar, I changed my mind.  The truck steers well and I have never experienced the "death wobble" (currently 359,000 miles on the truck).

 

2 hours ago, Haggar said:

(since caster is not adjustable, the only thing we can do is rotate the axle)

 

 @Haggar, did you mean "since camber is not adjustable"?

 

- John

[Silverwolf2691]

2 minutes ago, Tractorman said:

After the adjustment I had the caster angle checked - it was 4.5° positive. 

 

Better than mine was. One bolt was all the way forward and the other was all the way back. Bolts were original too. Swapped those out to change control arms and faced the bolt the same way. 

[Doubletrouble]

 So to adjust csster, I assume there us an adjusting offset bolt in the lower control arms to make this adjustment?

 I need to take a good hard look at all my tie rod end as well the ball joints. Just want this to stop. It doesn't happen often but I don't want it to happen at all. So far it has been only with an empty truck. Don't want to deal with this issue while towing our camper.

 I know the steering stabilizer is bad also. I don't belive this to be the root of the problem though. 

[Silverwolf2691]

 

Looks roughly like this when new, one on each side. Problem is they go into a steel sleeved bushing, rust, and seize. First step in removing control arms is sawzall both ends of the bolt off usually. Also means no more adjustability.

 

Steering damper is, in my opinion, the last thing to replace when getting death wobble. First is the track bar, then ball joints, then steering links, then steering box and shaft. I got into an argument with my dad over my moms Jeep when it was death wobbling because he said just replace the steering stabilizer to stop the death wobble. I told him it was the track bar but he didn't/wouldn't believe me.. But we got a newer vehicle for my mom to replace the jeep before it got fixed. The Jeep had 250-275k on it when we got rid of it.      

[Dieselfuture]

On 9/24/2021 at 10:44 AM, Silverwolf2691 said:

 

Looks roughly like this when new, one on each side. Problem is they go into a steel sleeved bushing, rust, and seize. First step in removing control arms is sawzall both ends of the bolt off usually. Also means no more adjustability.

 

Steering damper is, in my opinion, the last thing to replace when getting death wobble. First is the track bar, then ball joints, then steering links, then steering box and shaft. I got into an argument with my dad over my moms Jeep when it was death wobbling because he said just replace the steering stabilizer to stop the death wobble. I told him it was the track bar but he didn't/wouldn't believe me.. But we got a newer vehicle for my mom to replace the jeep before it got fixed. The Jeep had 250-275k on it when we got rid of it.      

Which ones would you get if you had to, I looked at rockauto they have 3 choices, seems skp do 3°  maybe there's better brand out there  I need to do mine at some point. Highly doubtful I'll get my factory ones freed up.

 

[Mopar1973Man]

Personally... I would upgrade control arms so the bottom arm are adjustable to gain your caster back. Then I would do a adjustable track bar to gain your thrust angle back. Got to remember there is some of us that don't get death wobble or have front end issues that require these mods. This just points out there is a geometry issue that has be created by customization.  

 

I'm completely stock front end. Never had death wobble. Still stock tie rod setup, still stock track bar, still stock steering (blue top quick ratio). Consider what you've changed you'll find your issue. Making more and more changes on top of a problem you will chase your tail trying to fix. 435k miles still rolling...

Edited September 26, 2021 by Mopar1973Man

[Doubletrouble]

9 hours ago, Mopar1973Man said:

This just points out there is a geometry issue that has be created by customization.  

 My truck is also completely stock. Just replaced the track bar with a stock replacement piece from RA. Looked under the front today while my daughter was turning the wheel back and forth and found the left tie rod end has some play as well.

 I was just inquiring about the T conversion in case I had to replace several parts. In that case I would just consider the upgrade at that time.

[Evan]

If the truck isnt lifted more than 3" i wouldn't worry about a adjustable track bar.

Any replacement track bar will work however i wouldn't expect more than 50k out it wich is also fine since its a consumable part.

 

Of truck has 200-300 k assume all parts need replaced regardless of wether they are thought to be good or not.

Ball joints, steering (replace with 2008.5+) track bar, control arms (stryker arms off ebay) unit bearings.

 

If stock max castor to possitive side, if lifted get stryker control arms for the lift height then max castor to positive side. 

 

I dont like the idea of adjustable lower control arms paired with slotted lower control arm brackets and castor bolts. Plate would need to be welded in to delete the castor bolts and washers.

This doesnt follow the KISS (keep it stupid simple) concept and allows more room for error 

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/MOOG-DS800981A-Steering-Linkage-Assembly-For-09-13-Dodge-Ram-2500-2500-3500-3500-/255026362321?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49286&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2000-2002-Dodge-Ram-1500-2500-3500-4WD-Upper-Lower-Stock-OEM-Control-Arms-/262702045098?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49286&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0

 

I run all parts i recomend. My truck has a 2" lift so i run the longer stryker arms.

 

I do not run a oe style track bar i run a 7/8" heim track bar with brackets i welded to the truck frame 

 

I have dealt with death wobble on other dodges but never my truck

 

I see alot of guys him hah around this wobble **** ohh its not wore it out yet it still drives good till it wobbled.

 

Well its old it has alot of miles rubber and metal deteriorate and wear. So replace the damn wear parts.

My old man is the worse, i replaced that 5 years ago. Well thats 150k , lol

[Doubletrouble]

 @Evan, would that steering kit in the first link be a direct bolt on? No mods to the knuckles or anything else?

[Evan]

For 2001 yes. For 2000-94 pitman arm would need to be reamed or replaced with 2001-2002 pitman arm.

 

On all trucks about 1/4" of thread needs cut of tie rod end at pitman arm to be able to center drag link to center wheel. 

 

I have a thread somewhere with photos where put moog 2008.5 plus steering on my 02 and 07 work truck.

 

Ill see if i can find it 

 

 

Edited September 27, 2021 by Evan

[Sycostang67]

I bought a complete linkage setup for an 03-08 2500/3500, it was a Mopar part, bolted right up to my 2001.  I got it on Amazon for about $430 earlier this year.  

[Doubletrouble]

So the taper of the tie rod ends is the same for 03-08 as a 2001? 

 I read somewhere which parts swap between years but can't find it again.

[Silverwolf2691]

https://www.dieselbombers.com/5-9l-24v-performance/59210-bomb-proof-bolt-2nd-gen-steering-cheap.html

 

For later 2nd gens only, the tapers seem to match from 2000 all the way to 2013. I think after that they went to the crossover/split linkage setup: 

 

 

[Evan]

I bought this to ream my jeep knuckles to chevy 1ton tie rod ends. 1.5" tpf(taper per foot) 70 bucks.  Ive reamed 2 sets of jeep knuckles and two pitman arms. I think its got lots more life left. Potential money maker.

 

Its kinda exspensive tool but very worth it. I do think the dodge taper is 1.5tpf from 03 to now maybe.

 

This reamer will work on both tie rod ends and pitman arm. Pitman is same taper just slightly deeper.

 

I could be way wrong but i dont think i am.

 

 

[Doubletrouble]

@Silverwolf2691, thanks for the link. Seems like the mopar kit would work on an '01. I don't use my truck as hard or rough as some but I would like to upgrade thing when I can. Heavy duty parts usually works out to be longer life in my situation. With recently buying an 11k pound fifth wheel I want the steering to be tight and strong.

[Silverwolf2691]

 

Just remember to get the most up to date versions. They had recalls on that stuff early on.

 

For my truck I'm looking at potentially a crossover setup. I've been doing a fair amount of digging on it and there are things I like and don't like about them. Most of it comes down to the bump steer issue and adjustability. I think the bump steer issue can be solved with good measurements and a 3rd gen track bar. The adjustability issues are due to the fact that we cant run a straight bar. Diff cover gets in the way. Either live with half turns on the heims, or measure really well. Possible option is to make a center adjustment, similar to a turnbuckle. Need to ponder some more and I'm not dead set on it either.