Torque Converter Lock / Unlock Issues

[JAG1]

I tried calling Michael Nelson about this last night but he's very busey. I wanted to ask him about the painted alternator mounting bracket. I found that the bracket does not give a full connection to ground and has some resistance.

 

I also read a lot about the value in running a separate ground from the Alternator housing to the negative battery post. Read there is a lot of benefit to that since batteries absorb most of the AC noise from the system.

 

So I don't really know without talking to Michael because he is the electrical engineer. My truck has never had this problem and my alternator has a separate ground added.

[CSM]

i run a separate ground. 

[notlimah]

Any pics of the second ground setup?

[leathermaneod]

Very curious as well!!!

 

[Mopar1973Man]

Like i had a conversation with @JAG1 about the ground. I typically do not suggest adding extra anything for wiring. Like him I told him to double check again on the ground. I bet the case of the alternator has a thin lacquer coating and make for poor contact. So I suggested to lightly sand the contact points of the case and the test patch. Now I bet the ground plane is improved. 

 

You can add the extra grounds but you must remove the wiring mods and filters BEFORE doing AC noise test. These mods will cover over the problem giving false good results on the test. Its so common to find over on CF of all the TQ conv problems and there is one guy fight a random issue and the alternator is passing the AC noise test. Now remove his noise filter, extra ground, etc. Now it fails absolutely. So extra grounds will not solve the problem with bad alternators but it will mask the issues long enough which in turn gives better chances of ECM, PCM or VP44 failure from excessive AC noise in the power.

 

So this why I don't suggest it because I want to see the noise sooner than later and deal with the alternator issue quickly than having it masked and slowly killing the computers.

Edited August 10, 2016 by Mopar1973Man

[AndrewFrias]

8 hours ago, Me78569 said:

.9 is not ok that alternator's diodes are burnt out.

So, took the same Alternator to an alternator shop and they said the ripple is .1 and .0... The dude at the Alt. shop sed the alternator is CHERRY.  He also said that the tester at NAPA adds to the VAC, therefore increasing the NAPA reading to .9. He also added that there were no bad diodes....

[DomeEnterprises]

Ok sorry for the delay I wasn't getting notified of all the replys and have had a crazy day. There is a set of wires coming from the alt which are the grounds for it. Two have these grey connectors which I decided to eliminate because they looked all corroded so I used yellow butt connectors to eliminate them. Then there is a third wire that goes to the fender it's secured by a sheet metal screw. I cut that wire off and then decided to take a ground from the negative and ground it on the large bolt for the hood hinge. I didn't re set anythin just cut and spliced those wires and changed the ground that was on the fender. 3 of my trucks have been flawless since. A friend of mine was having the same issue on and off lately Monday I sent him the photos. He changed the wiring and that night the issues were gone. Talked to him Tuesday and again today still going good.  Others who are having this problem give it a shot it's so simple. I couldn't believe it made it go away I was almost to the point of putting in a Manual tranny in one of the trucks.

[AndrewFrias]

Smokes, thats the main ground! Perhaps I should try this....

[DomeEnterprises]

Andrew give it a shot. 

[Me78569]

It's hard to see, but It look like you are just adding and replacing / fixing a ground ( PCM and ECM)?  The main battery ground connects directly to the block.  I am not sure I see the point of the secondary ground.   Not trying to be a naysayer but the 12 gauge wire is not even worth the trouble when you have that 0 gauge wire doing the same thing.  If you PCM / ECM ground wire was bad then fixing that is a good thing.

 

Have you tested any of your 4 trucks for AC noise in the charging system? 

 

 

 

Andrew,  If the alternator guy said your are getting .1 AC off the alternator I am going to say your alternator is causing the unlocking issue.   I honestly cannot count how many guys have unlock issues, test and find AC noise then replace the alternator and no longer have issues.  

 

What changed since leaving the factory in the truck that causes the truck to now need another ground wire?  Something wore out is what I can see.  

Edited August 10, 2016 by Me78569

[DomeEnterprises]

I'll have to take a better photo in the morning. one comes from the alternator and the other goes back towards the fire wall. I didn't know it was for the pcm.  The second pic was what my buddy did that wire is a lot bigger than the red one I did. I just moved that ground to the bolt for the hinge. Never tested any for ac noise 

[Me78569]

I would test for AC noise.  For whatever reason our alternators are PLEGED by that issue.  AC noise is TERRIBLE for all the electronics in the truck.  You can ground things all day long, but the issue is still there hidden causing issues for the future.    We know for a fact that most of the unlock issues are due to AC noise.   

 

 

My point is the alternator is grounded to the engine block via bolts / mount, the block is grounded to the battery by two  0 or 0/2 gauge wires.  I don't see how another wire to the alt to ground is going to help, unless your alternator is not making good ground via the mount, which is possible.    The addition of a small gauge wire shouldn't be needed.  

[Dieselfuture]

for a truck that is very anal about battery cables and wires in general, your cable need some cleaning. 

[DomeEnterprises]

I didn't add another wire to the alt for ground I simply changed the location it was grounded. I'll put some photos up tomorrow to show it better. 

[Me78569]

So the wire that you ground via the yellow crimps is the PCM and ECM ground 

 

 

From what I can tell there is no wired ground to the alternator, it is grounded via the mounting to the block, as shown by the wiring diagram.  

 

 

 

I am in no way saying what you did didn't solve your issue, but I want to make sure we are all on the same page and don't end up with misinformation in regards to this.    

Edited August 11, 2016 by Me78569

[JAG1]

I will report back tonight about sanding some lacquere off the Alt case to see if there is  resistance thru the mount bracket.

[JAG1]

I sanded the alternator case and tried to find any resistance thru the mount bracket. One volt meter I have is too smart (need classes for it) and couldn't understand the reading but the other more simple VM said  zero resistance between the Alt case and engine block. So my thoughts about a separate grounding from Alt. case to neg battery post isn't needed. However, some may have more rust or corrosion on their bracket soit might be good to check anyhow. Be sure batteries are disconnected while using the volt meter on OHMs as it will hurt the VM if dc volts are present.

[DomeEnterprises]

Ok these photos are of the one truck I have not done it to as its out of commission and hasn't been on the road in a while. This one did it the worst so I'm waiting on some parts to test this out on it. There are the two grey connectors. All I did was eliminate them and use butt connectors so that it makes a good connection. If you open those up they just look all corroded. Second picture is the ground wire that is just self taped to fender. All I did was take that wire off cut  it and made a new one then relocated it to be grounded on the large bolt for the hood hinge. In that group of wires one comes from alternator, other goes back to firewall into wiring harness and the third is the ground. I just relocated it. Never added any additional ground. 

Here's a photo of all of them except one that I sold. It was a 99ex cab that was giving me hell before I sold it that was the first one I stumbled across trying the wiring change.  And the blue one on the end is the one that has been parked for a bit.

[DomeEnterprises]

Anyone try this out? My buddies truck is still running strong. No issues 

[notlimah]

I'm not a huge electrical wiring guy, but it seems like you just cleaned the ground cables or replaced bad connectors and then put the ground cables in different locations, correct?