Teardown and Rebuild

[Royal Squire]

Could using graphite grease specifically cause the abs issue 

[Me78569]

is the tone wheel internal to the bearing? IE is the bearing sealed except for the ABS sensor?

[Mopar1973Man]

ABS tone wheel and the inner side of the bear is open/unsealed as far as I know so as the bearing heats it will push grease out. I've verify all my stuff on my truck traded ABS modules, front sensors, etc. When my stuff is place on another truck there is no lights or issues. Hook it all up on my truck using my tone wheels ABS / Brake light. The only temporary relief is compressed air to blow the grease out of the tone wheel teeth. Last 1-2 days and back. This is the factory grease in the bearing never been touched. 

Edited June 6, 2016 by Mopar1973Man

[TFaoro]

 

26 minutes ago, Me78569 said:

is the tone wheel internal to the bearing? IE is the bearing sealed except for the ABS sensor?

 

Yes. Just like stated below, the inside of the bearings is open to the ABS. Here's one place I got a bit of information. Make sure to read through all of the pages and check out the pictures.

http://www.cumminsforum.com/forum/3rd-gen-non-powertrain/326190-greasing-front-wheel-bearings-11.html

 

20 minutes ago, Mopar1973Man said:

ABS tone wheel and the inner side of the bear is open/unsealed as far as I know so as the bearing heats it will push grease out. I've verify all my stuff on my truck traded ABS modules, front sensors, etc. When my stuff is place on another truck there is no lights or issues. Hook it all up on my truck using my tone wheels ABS / Brake light. The only temporary relief is compressed air to blow the grease out of the tone wheel teeth. Last 1-2 days and back. This is the factory grease in the bearing never been touched. 

If issues do arise with pumping grease in I WILL disclose the issue. If I don't see any issues within a couple weeks, I'd have to say it has to do with your truck specifically. Maybe you should just pump that sucker full of grease... if it doesn't work anyway extra grease isn't going to make it worse. AFAIK the sensor should see right through the grease like it isn't there. Unless your grease is full of metal there shouldn't be an issue.

[Me78569]

interesting.  

 

I wonder how common it is to see ABS issues on older bearings?  Seems to me that once you start to get some fillings coming off the bearing your ABS sensor would start to loose it's ability to sense the tone wheel.  However I am no expert on this.  All the ABS systems I have worked with have had the tone wheel external to the bearing.

 

I cannot think that if you use the right grease that it will cause issues in the tone wheel.

 

 

[TFaoro]

3 minutes ago, Me78569 said:

interesting.  

 

I wonder how common it is to see ABS issues on older bearings?  Seems to me that once you start to get some fillings coming off the bearing your ABS sensor would start to loose it's ability to sense the tone wheel.  However I am no expert on this.  All the ABS systems I have worked with have had the tone wheel external to the bearing.

 

I cannot think that if you use the right grease that it will cause issues in the tone wheel.

 

 

Well, my passenger side was replaced at an unknown amount of miles, and the driver side is factory. 205K and still rolling with no codes!

[Mopar1973Man]

25 minutes ago, TFaoro said:

Unless your grease is full of metal there shouldn't be an issue.

 

That's the problem the grease is full of metal from natural wear of the bearing. Fine dust type stuff and black in color. I could try cleaning them up again pump it tight with grease.  

[Me78569]

that's why I was curious if this was a semi common issue on front ABS trucks.  seems like the natural procession of wear vs codes ya know?

[leathermaneod]

Is it possible that this could be an issue with the sensor itself? Or did you try swapping out just the sensor? If not that, then maybe there is something wrong with your tone ring specifically. Maybe it's wearing oddly for some reason, or defective...

 

 

TFaro you mentioned orange coolant....is the the Zerex G-05? I've been wanting to change my coolant and trying to decide which to run. The ASTM numbers confuse me too because some of them say the meet the 4985 and some say 3306, and ours is supposed to be 4985 as per the owners manual. I was gona go with the green stuff from autozone because it's 4985 and says it's safe for light diesels and is low silicate, but I'd rather get the pre mixed stuff so I don't have to mix it. So then I was gona get supertech, it's 4985, but it doesn't say if it's low silicate. So then I saw the Zerex G-05 that's made by Valvoline at autozone and it is pre mixed and says it's approved by cummins (it would since its Valvoline), but it's not 4985, it's 3306 and some other number I think. So what gives? Which is safe/best? Any opinions?

Edited June 6, 2016 by leathermaneod

[Mopar1973Man]

30 minutes ago, leathermaneod said:

Or did you try swapping out just the sensor?

 

Yeah 4 sets of them in the front. Front ABS sensors are not cheap that for sure...

 

31 minutes ago, leathermaneod said:

If not that, then maybe there is something wrong with your tone ring specifically.

 

Like I said if I can blow all the grease out of the tone wheel it works for 1-2 days then grease return in the teeth ABS light is back on. Weird but true...

[TFaoro]

1 hour ago, Mopar1973Man said:

 

That's the problem the grease is full of metal from natural wear of the bearing. Fine dust type stuff and black in color. I could try cleaning them up again pump it tight with grease.  

 

That might "dilute" the metal filings in there. I'd wait until I have some run time on mine and make sure there's no issues first though.

 

1 hour ago, leathermaneod said:

Is it possible that this could be an issue with the sensor itself? Or did you try swapping out just the sensor? If not that, then maybe there is something wrong with your tone ring specifically. Maybe it's wearing oddly for some reason, or defective...

 

 

TFaro you mentioned orange coolant....is the the Zerex G-05? I've been wanting to change my coolant and trying to decide which to run. The ASTM numbers confuse me too because some of them say the meet the 4985 and some say 3306, and ours is supposed to be 4985 as per the owners manual. I was gona go with the green stuff from autozone because it's 4985 and says it's safe for light diesels and is low silicate, but I'd rather get the pre mixed stuff so I don't have to mix it. So then I was gona get supertech, it's 4985, but it doesn't say if it's low silicate. So then I saw the Zerex G-05 that's made by Valvoline at autozone and it is pre mixed and says it's approved by cummins (it would since its Valvoline), but it's not 4985, it's 3306 and some other number I think. So what gives? Which is safe/best? Any opinions?

I'm using Dex-Cool from Walmart. I'm pretty sure you can run just about anything and it's not going to hurt. Just make sure it's not full of silicate!

[Buzzinhalfdozen]

3 hours ago, Me78569 said:

that's why I was curious if this was a semi common issue on front ABS trucks.  seems like the natural procession of wear vs codes ya know?

I've replaced a lot of wheel bearings on early 2000's Chevys for this very issue. 

[CTcummins24V]

2 minutes ago, Buzzinhalfdozen said:

I've replaced a lot of wheel bearings on early 2000's Chevys for this very issue. 

 

Had this issue on my 3rd gen. ABS module would randomly go off and pulse. Ended up using a flathead screw driver and cleaning the grease of the wheel one tooth at a time. It worked. 

[Buzzinhalfdozen]

2 minutes ago, CTcummins24V said:

 

Had this issue on my 3rd gen. ABS module would randomly go off and pulse. Ended up using a flathead screw driver and cleaning the grease of the wheel one tooth at a time. It worked. 

That sounds like a fun afternoon. 

 

[TFaoro]

Another 50 miles and the pan is completely dry. Also I have no ABS codes. If the grease I pumped in was going to cause a code, it would have done so by now. I'll keep pumping them with grease as they aren't cheap!

[CSM]

grease does expand when heated... is be cautious about pumping it truly full.  

 

also, where is the old grease going to go?

[TFaoro]

6 minutes ago, CSM said:

grease does expand when heated... is be cautious about pumping it truly full.  

 

also, where is the old grease going to go?

Same place the air would go when it heats up... I'd assume out the seals. I don't think they're solid but there's 20-25 pumps in it. 

 

No idea about the old stuff. As long as there's fresh grease in there they'll last longer than without 

[CSM]

1 hour ago, TFaoro said:

Same place the air would go when it heats up... I'd assume out the seals. I don't think they're solid but there's 20-25 pumps in it. 

 

No idea about the old stuff. As long as there's fresh grease in there they'll last longer than without 

 

In the past I've thought that.  I also wonder if the grease is really what wears out first?  I know the general train of thought is "it can't hurt" but I don't think it is worth the work.  If the bearings are high quality and the truck is used properly with semi normal tires, it should work well.  Personally, I think that the big killer of unit bearings in our trucks is side loading from ball joints, track bars, etc. that are failed and are loading the bearings more than a truck in good repair.  The unit bearings i've replaced coincide with other front end issues, mainly ball joints.  

 

In short, I think the bearings are seeing a surface wear issue that results in dirty grease, where the cause of failure is surface fatigue, not lack of lubrication.   

Edited June 7, 2016 by CSM

[Dieselfuture]

8 hours ago, TFaoro said:

 

That might "dilute" the metal filings in there. I'd wait until I have some run time on mine and make sure there's no issues first though.

 

I'm using Dex-Cool from Walmart. I'm pretty sure you can run just about anything and it's not going to hurt. Just make sure it's not full of silicate!

I was told by a rebuilder not to use dexcool as it causes severe electrolysis and damaging to gaskets and some other stuff.

[leathermaneod]

1 minute ago, Dieselfuture said:

I was told by a rebuilder not to use dexcool as it causes severe electrolysis and damaging to gaskets and some other stuff.

Did he give you any recommendations on what you should use?