01 2500 auto with a hx40....150 over injectors....adrenaline on level 3....3 piece bd manifold....running 80 on the interstate I’m getting 1000 with a little wind but not even towing anything...seems a little high?

6 minutes ago, kzimmer said:

Injector issues

Popping too low in pop pressure? Possible maybe. 

 

6 minutes ago, kzimmer said:

injection timing retarded

Yup. That is very possible too.

 

6 minutes ago, kzimmer said:

pre turbo exhaust leak

Yea but the OP should of heard it if it leaking. kind of like my boost leak test you can hear the rushing air or ticking noise.

 

6 minutes ago, kzimmer said:

wastegate exhaust leak

Still not sure how you could test for that other than pull the turbo and check the wastegate. Bind it closed and retest maybe?

 

Another guess.. Valve issues? Compression leaking? Blow By?

Edited May 29, 20195 yr by Mopar1973Man

Michael Nelson has always been right on when it comes to giving me advice on all the problems with my trucks. I don't care that he's obsessed with puney roller skate tires . I like mine too. He has saved me so much keeping me out of the dealers and away from another Dodge truck place.  It's cool.... Best website on the planet.

 

The only thing I could add to this thread was already said and that's about dragging brakes which my 02 has been notorious for. Everyone should check the temperature of each wheel on a regular basis. It will also save cooking the grease out of the wheel bearings which, if they suddenly fail, could send you head on into oncoming traffic or over the side of a mountain.

 

One last item I might add.... With bigger tires and wheels withthe way my truck was suddenly thrown into the fast lane during a bearing failure.... I would not want big wheels and tires in an event like that. No telling how much effect they would have as the sudden loss of control could have been much more catastrophic.

Edited May 30, 20195 yr by JAG1

7 minutes ago, JAG1 said:

The only thing I could add to this thread was already said and that's about dragging brakes which my 02 has been notorious for. Everyone should check the temperature of each wheel on a regular basis. It will also save cooking the grease out of the wheel bearings which, if they suddenly fail, could send you head on into oncoming traffic or over the side of a mountain.

 

Like @cajflynn taught me long ago when something fails the result is typically heat. Like yourself I've bought a IR temp gun and keep it in the pocket of the door. I can quickly check brake temperatures, transmission, axles, anything to verify what's going on and why there is temperature.

 

As for @JAG1 he's another person that learn his lesson on running heavy without exhaust brake. Long down hill grade and 4 speed transmission (47RE) couldn't hold it back so net result was dragging the brakes which over heated the brakes, rotors, and the wheel bearings costing him dearly in parts and time. Yup. Exhaust brake is much better than 3rd gen brake upgrade which would of still overheated and caused the same damage. Exhaust brake has nothing to get hot and works great on long downhill grades with heavy loads. 

50 minutes ago, JAG1 said:

I don't care that he's obsessed with puney roller skate tires

 

Ummm... Running the exact size on the door sticker. Stock tire size. 

 

Speaking of brakes, mine dives to the right with braking and has done it since I got it a year ago.  I replaced everything under the front end except ball joints **shudders at the thought** and it still does it (I replaced the steering parts to fix steering wander more than the brake issue).  Going to get new brakes, rotors, and hub assembly today.  Hopefully that fixes it.  BTW, that's a good idea about the IR gun.  

 

For information purpose. This is what 245/75 R16 tires on 3.55 gear and Quadzilla Tuner does at 82 MPH at 2,486 RPM. Remember -50°F from the EGT's and +1 to MPH to be correct.

 

 

Yup... 627°F for EGT's rolling on flat ground at 82 MPH. Boost floats at about 7-10 PSI. The most I have seen climbing the rolling hills is 750°F and 15 PSI of boost. Flat ground it dances around the 625-675°F for EGT's. So using this as a base rule of what could be reached I'm still very puzzled of what is causing his EGT's and Engine Load to be so high. 

 

Personally, I still think is the final gearing ratio. 3.36:1 final to the ground is just too much plus added 4-inch lift increasing the frontal area of the truck adding more wind drag.

 

There is just something causing it to fuel harder and create way more heat.

Edited May 31, 20195 yr by Mopar1973Man

Where do you guys have 80 mile an hour speed limits? I've never done that except for a moment in High school.

Just now, JAG1 said:

Where do you guys have 80 mile an hour speed limits? I've never done that except for a moment in High school.

I84 instates between Ontario, OR to Caldwell, ID. That where I picked up this data at.

 

Mike are your EGT's just that low because your RPM's are screaming high?

4 minutes ago, kzimmer said:

Mike are your EGT's just that low because your RPM's are screaming high?

 

Yup. Plus the tuning and having the timing cranked up 26°. I'm still capable of getting 19.5 MPG running 80 MPH. 23% engine load I'm not even putting much fuel out. 

Edited May 31, 20195 yr by Mopar1973Man

At those speeds, I'm wondering if a truck with a lower final drive ratio would get better mileage, as it would move the RPM's closer to 2000?

Nope. Lower makes the EGT's higher and engine load higher. Just the change from the 235's to 245's is what did this trick for me. Remember wind drag is exponential so it even higher at 80 MPH. So you need the RPM's up to overcome the drag. At 66 MPH I'm a prefect 2,000 on the tach and the EGT's float 550°F. At 55 MPH it drops to 450°F.

---

I've got to ask @kzimmer what is your 80 MPH EGT's like with 35" tires?

9 hours ago, Mopar1973Man said:

Nope. Lower makes the EGT's higher and engine load higher. Just the change from the 235's to 245's is what did this trick for me. Remember wind drag is exponential so it even higher at 80 MPH. So you need the RPM's up to overcome the drag. At 66 MPH I'm a prefect 2,000 on the tach and the EGT's float 550°F. At 55 MPH it drops to 450°F.

---

I've got to ask @kzimmer what is your 80 MPH EGT's like with 35" tires?

 

 

Engine load is relative to rpm. So 25% load at 2500 rpms is a higher fuel burn than 25% load at 2000 rpms, or even 30% at 2000 rpms. 

 

The ISB has never been touted as higher rpms being more efficient. Simply put, there is more drag internal to the engine which will reduce fuel efficiency. 

 

Rpms don’t overcome drag, they never have. Horsepower overcomes drag, and you want to develop that power at as an efficient rpm as possible, which is closer to 2000 than 2500. 

 

 

 

Higher boost usually decreases EGTs.

 

Boost leaks, on the other hand, raise EGTs.

lol  AH I gotta split a hair.  Torque overcomes drag.  Horsepower is purely the rate at which torque is applied.....  I'll buy the beer

 

But after reading this, the next thing I would double check, is the pyrometer accurate?

 

HTH

 

Hag

13 minutes ago, Haggar said:

 

 

 

3 minutes ago, Haggar said:

But after reading this, the next thing I would double check, is the pyrometer accurate?

 

Between the ISSPro in the a-pillar and the Quadzilla on the cellphone both have there own probe. Typically a drift of +50 on the Quadzilla vs the ISSPro.

 

As for my results it very repeatable. When I'm driving nearly 1,000 miles per week. Just a stock tire size on 3.55 gears. Nothing special. Even if I went back to 265's / 235's (31" inch) the pyro would rise closer to 800°F and then the engine load rises. 

 

Looking back on old notes back when I was running 235's with the +75 HP injectors I was hitting 750°F for EGT's.

 

Like I posted above my singled out fuel MPG test was 19.58 MPG for running 80 MPH for 88 miles. 

 

Still in all, if I can reach this low EGT temps running 2.5k RPMs, What is the posters problem? I presented all my data and facts now to try and figure out why he can come close to what I've got happening. Both have 150 HP injectors, both got Quadzilla, Both running HX40 turbo (will HX35/40 hybrid for me). No reason he can't do at least half as good.

Edited May 31, 20195 yr by Mopar1973Man

13 minutes ago, Haggar said:

lol  AH I gotta split a hair.  Torque overcomes drag.  Horsepower is purely the rate at which torque is applied.....  I'll buy the beer

 

But after reading this, the next thing I would double check, is the pyrometer accurate?

 

HTH

 

Hag

 

Its a perfect relationship between hp and torque. 

11 hours ago, Mopar1973Man said:

Nope. Lower makes the EGT's higher and engine load higher.

 

Can't go by engine load, the load measurement is based on fuel injected "per stroke". As RPM's increase for the same amount of load, naturally, less fuel per stroke is required, so load will appear to drop.

 

11 hours ago, Mopar1973Man said:

I've got to ask @kzimmer what is your 80 MPH EGT's like with 35" tires?

 

Not sure, I never drive that fast. Truck will be back on the road Saturday, I'll try to get you some data on that in the near future. With the 2" level and 35" tires I'm probably seeing a lot of wind resistance. That and where I live it's always so damn windy.

 

1 hour ago, AH64ID said:

Engine load is relative to rpm. So 25% load at 2500 rpms is a higher fuel burn than 25% load at 2000 rpms, or even 30% at 2000 rpms. 

 

Yeah that's what I was getting at, I missed this response at first.

 

22 minutes ago, Haggar said:

But after reading this, the next thing I would double check, is the pyrometer accurate?

 

This is a very good question for the OP. I was thinking about this myself. Does a failing pyrometer read High?

2 minutes ago, kzimmer said:

Does a failing pyrometer read High?

 

Typically drops low. My DiPricol did fail and was reading half the temp it should. Being that pyrometer problem is a bi-metal pair and creates a very small millivolt signal. As the probe fails the voltage drops. Some EGT gauge use a signal amplifier to boost the signal for the gauge.

6 hours ago, kzimmer said:

Yeah that's what I was getting at, I missed this response at first.

 

Here is a other way to look at it. 

 

If higher rpms were more efficient why would anyone use OD at speeds below 65-70?

 

63 mph should be ~2500 rpms in 4th and ~1900 in 5th for MoparMan. Which gear do you think would yield better mileage. We all can easily say 5th, as the internal drag of the engine is lower and it makes the required power more efficiently. If you run the numbers the same hp is required in either gear, and torque obviously varies based on rpm and gearing... but wheel hp and tq will be the same. 

Regardless... I came to the table with what facts that I can provide. No theories here, all post information was taken from the trip to Nampa and back to Ontario. The MPG numbers is posted from my previous trip to Nampa and back to Ontario. 

 

Again EGT's are lower, engine load is lower than most and making 19.58 MPG at 80 MPH.

 

The part most I don't think are calculating is frontal area increase in lifts and larger tires. Then the rotational mass of the larger tires takes even more energy to keep twisting. Wind drag where a vehicle standing taller in the wind is going to have more drag. Like the OP installed a 4 inch lift, and oversized tires. For every 1 pound of rotational mass you can drop is like 8 pounds off the frame in rule of thumb. Again adds up to more drag. 

 

More about rotational mass...

http://hpwizard.com/rotational-inertia.html

 

Still got 3.55 gears, 245/75 R16 stock sized tires, 150 HP injectors (7 x 0.010 @ 320 bar), HX35/40 Hybrid Turbo (60/60/12), factory steel wheels (16 x 7), and my economy tune with some steep timing. No other magic here. Wheels and tires are what Dodge and Cummins designed the truck to run with. 

 

Like the drag coefficient on my truck in factory trim is 0.41. A one ton dually Dodge has a drag coefficient of 0.49. I can see a lift kit and oversized tires going up in the 0.5 to 0.6 realm adding huge amount of drag.

 

 

Edited May 31, 20195 yr by Mopar1973Man