kzimmer

Well it was a nice thought lol.

@dieselautopower I need to mention that I found another somewhat rare situation that proves to be a little bit of a pain in the ***. Last week I went to pick up some furniture. I had to parallel park on a side street, between two vehicles, in a snow bank. It requires some pretty awkward throttle stabs, and I found out that the situation is quite a bit worse in reverse. Not exactly sure why. Maybe because the reverse gear ratio is very slightly smaller than 1st. Put it in reverse, no big deal, quick blip of the throttle, or heavy press with a quick let-off and brake after rolling over a chunk of snow/ice, and I'm stalling. It's something that I can work around, and the wife has never had an issue, so it's still pretty rare. Doesn't bother me much, just a little embarassing of there's people around, haha. @Me78569 Let's say I want to keep these at 365 bar. (Because I do... 50% because I like the way it drives, and 50% because I don't want to spend ~4-5 hours on a saturday replacing and re-popping injectors when there's oh so many oil leaks I could be fixing). Are you interested in playing with: 1. An anti-stall feature, likely tailored to people with automatics and high injector pop pressures. Yeah... Probably not a big market for that... Would likely only need to be active at 0% tps. 2. Extra fuel while cranking. I totally understand that there are huge implications here, and the Quad will likely not be happy about controlling fuel while cranking when the battery voltage is being sucked down to nil. Still though... I am prepared to give the quad it's own 12V battery and diode isolate. In the name of VP44 science. I don't want to open up the SAC vs VCO debate, but I have not read a compelling enough argument to pick SAC over VCO. All I can tell you is that with the 7x.013's popping at 365 BAR, my theoretical maximum fuel flow is probably reduced a little bit, and I don't need wiretap to break 50psi with my setup. I haven't turned off the boost limiter yet, but wiretap is pretty much dead to me, lol. The tune I'm running now is a little hazy from 4-15 psi (totally made up those numbers), but it can be as clean as you want it to be. When I bought my original cheap 7x.014's, it was because I didn't know much and I was paranoid about not having enough fuel. They smoked out the dyno shop at 63 psi and would hit 73 on the highway (more air). That was before v2 of course. Too much injector now = not enough tuning. Kinda.

Based on my limited testing, i'd say anything under 350 BAR is fair game, ready to go, no problems and no extra work or special programming needed. 365 drives amazing, but the minor quirks still bug me a little. It's no big deal, its just not perfect. However... this thing is extremely fun to drive, and I'm convinced the higher pop help me get some extra fuel during spoolup without the added smoke. I just can't keep my damn foot out of it.

The only way I can get mine to connect is click the identify (or update) button, and then immediately after, plug the USB cable in. If I plug the cable in first, it almost never works. I also have to disable antivirus (Bit Defender). Try that if the driver is already installed properly.

Lol all good.

Then why the hell haven't I bought one of these yet? Lol.

Question: After starting a vehicle in 3cyl high idle mode, how long does it take for the various stages to kick in?

Walbro 392 mounted on the frame rail, 1/2" lines (mostly) and a sump. It primes with key on and after a crank but I've never actually attempted to listen to it while cranking, pretty tough. Fuel pressure is always good though. My only gauge is on the quad, which is on an android head unit, which loses power while cranking.

@Me78569 what if @mossyoak71 used a smarty to flash his ecm to be a manual? Would the factory anti-stall kick in and help out?

That wouldn't help my situation anyway. My stalling issues happen after letting off the throttle after a stab. The truck factory Defuels after letting off the throttle to get the rpms back to 800, undershoots, and attempts a recovery. The issue is always at TPS = 0. I started noticing tonight that it takes longer to start. A tad bit worse cold starting than the 7x.014's were at 340 bar, which cold started excellent. Actually unbelievably well. There's a stumble now and a tiny bit more cranking. Not a ton but noticeable. Also, I noticed tonight that when up to full operating temps, it starts significantly worse. Extra couple seconds of cranking and stumbling. But when running, it's fine. And it drives exceptionally well. Definitely the best running so far. All in all I think the moral of the story is increase pop until just before any introduced issues become a pain in the ***. I'm thinking that's going to be around 350 bar in my case.

@Carbur8tr very interesting thoughts. I think that makes sense. Let me ask you guys this, is increasing demanded fuel via canbus 0-4095 mechanically the same as using wiretap to keep the solenoid open? If so, we may have come full circle as @Me78569 experimented with canbus anti-stall a while back, lol. It's important for me to note, that I put it in gear and don't touch the throttle, it won't stall. The RPM will drag down for a portion of a second, and then recover and idle normally, in gear. Now, the situation is worse if i'm idling in gear and stab the throttle on and off quick. If it does not stall, it also recovers fine. Now also, it seems to be *a little bit* worse on lvl 3 than on lvl 0. Still exists on lvl 0 though, but I did notice a difference. Whether it's an anti-stall via canbus or wiretap, depending on the mechanics of either, I think it can be resolved. But.... is it worth it? We may never know, haha.

Cool! I take my used oil and antifreeze to them. They have a second office close to where I work. Just keeper under 50 psi until I get a manual trans in, lol.

Excellent! If I decide to pull mine again, I'm going to set the pop to 350 bar. Truck runs great at 365, just that little quirk. With a manual I likely wouldn't even notice the quirk because of anti-stall.

Got my high idle back, thank you sir. I'll try to get one soon. The wife needs the truck today so I gotta take the car out of town.

I had a chance to put on about 160km on the highway tonight. 100-200° drop in EGT cruising at a little over 70mph (650° give or take) and at WOT (quad Defuel set to 50 psi, 1000° max, settled down to °940 or less). Happy with that. WOT spoolup is great and very little smoke. 10psi to 50psi happens lightning fast. It's a beast. I just need a long highway trip at reasonable speeds to test mileage. Also need to dial in fuel and timing.

I'd say go for it.

That's a really interesting idea. Just for reference, do you know what the timing range is for common rail trucks? What kind of timing do those things need when they reach 4000 rpm? I know it's a different beast, but maybe the timing range from low rpm to redline will help identify timing requirements up high. @Me78569 The quad would have to have control of timing at all times in this case, correct? During cranking, idling, etc. I'd be terrified of what would happen if I was WOT and the quad shut off, possibly adding 10 degrees of timing.

This bugs me as well. I mean we can't be pioneers here... The pros have done this. But they never had quad v2 tuning either. There has got to be more positive than negative here. My 7x.014's were a night and day difference. So much better with higher pop. I never ran these 13's at stock pop pressure but I'm pretty confident there's some benefit to the higher pop. I just wish I knew more about diesel theory and could prove it. That comp d thread was full of people who basically said "no you can't" without any educated explanation or any reasons that derived from experience. Almost like one of those general consensus things that nobody questions because.... just because? Similarly, it wasn't long ago that you'd be called an idiot for running 7x.14's and a small single turbo. Everything I read talked about how important it was to match injector size with turbo size. Go too big and you will over fuel the turbo. Now it's moot. Injectors too big? Dial back the fuel. Done.

That's what it seems like. I can't dedicate the time for a while to reduce pop, but when I do I think that's the exact range I'd use. But here's what's bugging me. Ignoring the stab-and-release issue, which again isn't normal operation, it runs great. I wonder at what point it becomes a hindrance as far as efficiency goes, on the highway for example. I don't do enough steady consistent driving to get concrete data. Do you think it can be generally accepted that increasing pop pressure on a vp44 injector is equivalent to a common rail increasing rail pressure? I'm thinking both wouldn't effectively inject x amount of fuel in less time.

I installed the 14's at normal pop pressure. A shop in town set them up for me. When I removed them (maybe 20,000 kms or so) I measured the pop pressures anywhere from 280 to 315. They did a crappy job. Cold starts weren't great, they smoked white at idle pretty much at all times, worse when cold. Idle was getting a little unbalanced if that makes any sense. A month or two ago I bumped them up to 340 bar. Helped cold starts, cut down on smoke when the engine started to warm up. Seemed to build boost faster. A little bit of driveability improvement. I set the pop pressure of the 13's at 365. Might be a little high, stumbles a little when it's put in gear, and when it's cold, as mentioned above, a stab of the throttle in gear has a 50/50 chance of stalling while the motor is cold. Not as bad when it's warm, but still noticable. I haven't driven a ton yet but drivability seems awesome. I haven't finalized my tune yet, but I'm starting 5% higher at 0psi, and smoke significantly less. Spoolup is even better. I think I'll gain a little more yet when I fine tune timing. Idle smoke is virtually gone, which is nice. I haven't let it boost higher than 42 psi yet because of my trans, but I'm fairly certain these will flow at least as much fuel as the 7x.014's did, if not more. 14's were rated at 250 HP, and these 13's are rated at 275 HP. They're honed to flow more I guess. So I retained the volume of fuel with the added benefit of slightly smaller holes in the nozzle. I'm not sure at what point increasing pop pressure stops helping atomization, intensity, etc.. Logic tells me the more fuel you can jam in less time with a constant injector size, the better. 340 bar had zero negative affect. 365 has no negative affect while driving along, just the couple unlikely scenarios listed above.

With the new injectors I mean.

Thanks Nick, I'll try to give it a go this week, Saturday at the latest. The wife says the truck drives better now. Not sure what that means, but I'll take it.

That might be true. However, I bought the cheapest one I could find on eBay about 5 years ago. Still works. Reads and clears codes, can get live sensor data, etc. Not the fastest thing in the world, but works. The guts of the brand name and cheap ones are likely very similar if not the same. Brand name and warranty tend to cost a lot more. Depends on if those things are important to you. I'm thinking about buying a second one so I can keep one in each vehicle.

Look up elm327 on Amazon. The Bluetooth ones work with any android device. Its the ****. I got the torque pro app for like 5 bucks and the adapter for like 25 bucks. There are also other apps. Less than 30 bucks invested and tons of possibility. Plug it in and leave it, no need for devices to stow in your glove box.

Observations so far for the 7x.013" nozzles: Idle haze is gone, even when cold. My old nozzles had a white haze pretty much all the time, and it was worse when the engine was cold. These idle very clean, even with the 365 bar pop pressure. Cold starts are a tiny bit rough at first, like for a split second. When it's running, it's fine. @Me78569, for some reason I lost high idle. I also flashed 2.7.3 at the same time though. It's actually really strange. I can hear it try to kick in. I have the high idle delay time set for 90 seconds. (side note, before today, the high idle didn't actually ramp up. It just jumps directly from 800 rpm to 1200rpm, which I am totally fine with). Now, after 90 seconds, I can hear the jump like it's going to leap from 800 rpm to high idle, just a quick jump, split second, and then it's back to 800 rpm. And, 90 seconds later, the same quick jump, and back to 800 rpm. It's almost like I tapped the go pedal. But I didn't. I was outside the truck the first time I noticed it. Side note, I just remembered something while I was typing. I was on 2.7.1 when I first started the truck after installing the new nozzles. High idle worked. I flashed 2.7.3 this morning. I guess that's when it stopped working. Had a quick 10 minute cruise on the highway tonight. Just by listening to the truck, it sounds like it could use some more timing. It was at around 19-19.5 degrees at about 107 km/h, probably 1650 rpm or so. Added another degree, but it still has less rattle than before. Interesting. It's definitely louder at idle. More of a pronounced rattle. I don't think it's extreme, or dangeous. Just different. If I put it in drive, and stab the throttle really quick and let off (not normally behavior obviously), there's a chance the truck will stall. When cold, there's a pretty good chance. When the engine is up to operating temperature, it likely won't stall, just stumbles a little. This is the only negative I have seen so far, and if one doesn't do stupid things with the accelerator pedal, it's not a big deal. I need to try it again on lvl 0 and lvl 1, I'm pretty sure I've only done that on level 3. I'm curious if the quad amplifies the problem or relieves the problem. I made a really quick and lazy tune starting at 75% canbus fuel and jumping up by 1% per psi until 10psi and then 2% onward. The old 7x.014" nozzles started at 70%. I'm pretty sure I can still throw some more fuel at these nozzles sub 10 psi and have less smoke. And spoolup is already noticeably better the way it is now. Which is obviously awesome.