SHTF

[hex0rz]

As if things couldn't get worse! I really hoped the vehicle accident was going to be the least of my problems.

I didn't think much of it but I guess the storm we just had roll through the Pacific northwest here was worse than I thought.

Went into work yesterday and the weather was getting bad. Halfway through the shift, the power goes out and stays out. That's when the fun began.

We get called off and head home. Downed trees everywhere! Windy as crap still. Managed to finally get home after some help cleared the road for us.

I geared up and made my round around my area and spent some time cutting up Downed trees to help clear paths for others. Managed to gather a half cord in the process.

As I sit, we still have no power and the local utilities in the region have varied estimates for power to come back on. Our area could be up to 3 days before we get power.

My mother back in Spokane said she was told it could be up to 23 days!

Thankfully I have the generator that I'm Running from the 55th wheel to keep the fridges going. I got the wood heat but no power to run my well. Anyone have ideas how I could rig something up to get it to run temp.?

I'm playing damage control up here and still somehow I have to go to work without the Ability to eat or shower, etc.

I think I need to hunker down. Hope it doesnt take long before we get Our power back!

Believe me, I was putting alternative energy power on my list, but this happened sooner than I had money for!

[Hawkez]

can you not rig you pump to run off the generator?

[Wild and Free]

Most likely the well is 220-240V and will require at least 30 amp service to get it to kick on unless it has a soft start capacitor relay box. Could be done but would require some electrical work and a way to plug it into the generator if it is big enough to run it.

This just guessing as I do not know what type of well he has or how deep it is, could be a simple 20 foot systern open pit well then it would be easy.

I am lucky enough to have dual water supplies, have rural water and my own well which I need to get hooked up into my generator transfer panel for this type of scenario.

Have lived off generator power living here in the Northern plains plenty of times, last one was about 5 years ago went over a week in 20* weather with no power. Nice to have a wood stove for this too.

Edited November 18, 2015 by Wild and Free

[dripley]

Does your generator not have 220 power available on it? Most generators I rent will have a 220v 30 amp outlet on them. My well pump at home is 120v 20 amp circuit. Just thinking out loud and hope all gets better soon. At least you dont have a check to write on this one. 

[Mopar1973Man]

That's one of the things I resolved a very long time ago. After 96-97 Flood I learned a lot. I had a 4kw generator that powered most of the house during that time and we lost power and phone for over 14 days. That's what got me to evolve and move into solar and hydro power. I wasn't going to be caught in a long term storm again. I remember people willing to pay you hundreds of dollars just to rent your generator to power up freezer to keep food from spoiling. We had 3 or 4 different family all living from our place. We are on a high bench above the high river level.

So the only thing I can say is invest in a good generator that has 220 VAC output for your well. Like now I've got a collection of 3 generators now. 6,500w for the main house, 4,000 watt for the guest house shop and 2,000 watt generator for the RV. That's another thing the RV always turns into a fallback home. Like during the flood instead of attempting to power the well and electric water heater for showers we fired up the old Dodge Jamboree motorhome loaded it with water and turned on the propane. Now you had a shower house for every one. Water time came around I would power up the well and fill containers and the RV and then go back to power refrigeration.

Then current the main house and the RV are both solar / battery powered with inverters. I plan on added more updated panels to the main house and taking the older panels for the guest house and building a smaller 2,000 watt system for there.

Edited November 19, 2015 by Mopar1973Man

[notlimah]

Sorry to hear this storm hit you so hard! We're up on Whidbey Island and while the winds were pretty insane, I wasn't directly effected by it. It's pretty much made up my mind that getting a generator for things like this is a must have, especially since my house is all electric. Hope you get everything back in order Anthony. BTW where are you at?

 

Side note.... what brand generators are you guys running for your whole house setups?

[hex0rz]

I just looked again when I got home. The pump is 230 volt. Well Is only 75 feet deep.

Running with a 5500watt cummins onan. Its powering the 5th wheel, two fridges and anything we need to charge.

I ran into town today and picked up 25 gallons of gas. Hoping that Will be enough until power comes back on.

I'm in north idaho. 

A neighbor has an extra generator he's willing to sell. Says it's pretty much brand New. 7000watt for 500.

Dont matter much if I can tie into the panel...

It'll end up being a higher priority on my list, as I've been told this is commonplace around here. And usually it's an extended outage as well.

I'm thinking about seeing what my cost analysis will show with solar setup versus doing a generator Running off a 2000 gallon propane supply.

As it sits, still without power and still looking at another possible 2days without.

Edited November 19, 2015 by hex0rz

[Mopar1973Man]

Sad to say propane fuel generators are expensive and burn way more fuel than gasoline or diesel powered.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gasoline_gallon_equivalent

So no matter how you slice it you will need more propane to do the same work of a gasoline powered generator.

[AH64ID]

We have a tri-fuel generator that I need to finish getting hooked up. 

Propane does have fewer BTU's per gallon but the fuel is already at my house and in a big storm with a power outage gasoline may be an issue where propane would not be. 

Gasoline just doesn't store well enough to bother for a long term event. 

[Mopar1973Man]

Quote

Gasoline just doesn't store well enough to bother for a long term event.

Solution I found that works very well. For long term storage of gasoline is a 55 gallon drum will air tight bungs. I've been storing gasoline for YEARS with no loss or issues. As long as the drum is air tight container and does not breathe the fuel will last very long time. Also store diesel in the same manner. I picked up the drums from a oil distribution house that had fresh engine oil and the drum were clean and rust free. Cost only $20 a drum.

Like yesterday instead of driving to town for 10 gallons of gasoline. I just pulled 10 gallons from the drum. When I unscrewed the bung it have a good hard vacuum on it. I know my bungs are still good and the o-ring can be replaced if needed. No issues with the fuel even with long term storage.

Like during the flood of 96-97 I have all the gasoline I could every want. 4 vehicles of our own at the time will 1/2 tank or better. Then the 4 other families had vehicles with fuel in them as well. Gasoline was plentiful and very easy to get. Potable generator where easy to unplug and relocate to another house for  few hours. Propane has to be hard plumbed in.

As for storage of your generator with gasoline is easy too. Most have a fuel valve just shut the valve run the carb dry. I typically try to exercise my gennies 1 a month (at least the main one). The other two are stored empty because the tanks are vented like AH64ID fuel will not keep. This applies to vented containers.

[hex0rz]

Well we only went a day and a half without power! Used at least 10 gallons if fuel for the generator.

I've got a neighbor who said he'd sell me a generator for 425. He says there's very low hours on it and runs great. It's a 5000 watt Generac with Briggs and Stratton. But he bought it back in '99.

The other problem is, I don't think the 220v demand from the well could handle it. The breakers on the panel for the well are two breakers bridged with 30 amp on them.

He used to be an electrician as well. So I was going to have him wire a plug in for me to run the house off the generator. I think I'm gonna need a bigger generator.

I'd like to get my hands on military gen instead.

Definitely looking harder at solar power too. Running the house off of some gigantic 6v batteries is looking like a good idea.

[AH64ID]

14 minutes ago, hex0rz said:

Well we only went a day and a half without power! Used at least 10 gallons if fuel for the generator.

I've got a neighbor who said he'd sell me a generator for 425. He says there's very low hours on it and runs great. It's a 5000 watt Generac with Briggs and Stratton. But he bought it back in '99.

The other problem is, I don't think the 220v demand from the well could handle it. The breakers on the panel for the well are two breakers bridged with 30 amp on them.

He used to be an electrician as well. So I was going to have him wire a plug in for me to run the house off the generator. I think I'm gonna need a bigger generator.

I'd like to get my hands on military gen instead.

Definitely looking harder at solar power too. Running the house off of some gigantic 6v batteries is looking like a good idea.

I'll be honest.. I am not sure you want to price out the size of battery bank you would need to run your standard house, even a small energy efficient one, on battery power. You would be a fraction of the cost for a gen-tran and a good size generator. To do it correctly would take at least 6-8 6V or 6/12 2 V's and they are $$$$$ plus a side of $$$$$. 

My well is also a 220V 30A connection but I have no doubt that it will be just fine on the 5.5KW generator as long as I am not trying to shower in 3 baths, do dishes, laundry, and water the lawn. My well is a variable rpm pump thou and yours may not be. 

I need to get a gen-tran for my house but it did occur to me yesterday that I have 2 30A 115V RV plugs side by side outside the house that each feed off a separate bank. I could make my own 220V plug with pig tails to each RV plug and just shut off the MAIN breaker and power the whole house. It will take some careful fridge/freezer practices but the main thing is that we would have water/heat. 

Edited November 23, 2015 by AH64ID

[hex0rz]

I'm looking at this long term. I really want to be off grid completely. I cannot run a generator to make all the power I need all the time. 

For now until I get set up, I'll do the generator in emergencies.

I'm eyeing forklift batteries. Found some good ones in the range of a few thousand and is supposed to last at least 20 years.

The neighbor said he spent 65 on parts and wired it up and all he has to do is turn the main off before firing up the generator.

[Mopar1973Man]

Just to confirm AH64ID my eight 6V batteries total up to $4,800 for the set. Not cheap.

@AH64ID You might to be very very careful with the back feed idea. I know it works but if for some reason the main breaker doesn't open or was forgotten you might electrocute power company worker or cause a serious over load of your generator as it attempts to power the neighborhood. I know this most likely won't happen but always best to error to the side of caution. 

 

[Cowboy]

Was there some kind of a storm recently?  What does SHTF mean?

 

I got the same setup as AH64ID is talking about.  Not quite as fancy though, I disconnect the AC and use it's circuit, hook that to a 3500W Gen and we have everything needed.  If power is expected to be out an extended period of time, hook up the 10,000W gennie and live like a king haha.

Edited November 23, 2015 by Cowboy

[Mopar1973Man]

LOL. I don't even know the power is gone out. My inverter is so quick to transfer over I don't feel any changes at all. I only lose stove, oven and the drier. Everything else works just fine well. So how I tell if the power is back on I just click the oven time to 0 minutes so it buzzing when the power comes back on. Even transferring back to city power is seamless and don't see any change.

I only need the generate more so if days are more cloudy than sunny. Winter time is mostly generator usage being our direct sunlight hours are very limited. So morning we would use the generator for recharging from the night discharge then maybe charge on last time before bed.

I've gotten use to living on a 30 Amp service. We learned how to share power for big appliances. Toaster, coffee pot, etc. So when the power does drop there is certain then we turn off and use only when needed. Like water heater that is flipped off at the breaker. Like I said before depends on the reason if it a long term I would fire up the RV for a shower house and such. Temporary outage just turn off the water heater. Oh it converted from 4,500w 220vac to 1,100w 110vac. Much less load.

[Wild and Free]

1 hour ago, Cowboy said:

Was there some kind of a storm recently?  What does SHTF mean?

 

I got the same setup as AH64ID is talking about.  Not quite as fancy though, I disconnect the AC and use it's circuit, hook that to a 3500W Gen and we have everything needed.  If power is expected to be out an extended period of time, hook up the 10,000W gennie and live like a king haha.

SHTF =  Shits hits the fan. Ha ha it didn't edit me there to s***. by adding one extra letter I am so bad.

Edited November 23, 2015 by Wild and Free

[AH64ID]

20 hours ago, Mopar1973Man said:

 

@AH64ID You might to be very very careful with the back feed idea. I know it works but if for some reason the main breaker doesn't open or was forgotten you might electrocute power company worker or cause a serious over load of your generator as it attempts to power the neighborhood. I know this most likely won't happen but always best to error to the side of caution. 

 

Yes and no... While the potential to backfeed is there the generator wouldn't last a second before tripping the circuit breaker or overload protection due to the HIGH draw that everything on the line would be drawing if the MAIN breaker was open. So while it could backfeed it won't happen with a 5.5KW generator. 

[Mopar1973Man]

True. Just like to place that warning out there for other to know as well. The other part of the warning. If the main breaker for some reason was forgotten and you did plug in and the power came back on it could do damage to the generator!

Kind of like my Inverter I leave on Sell out mode. So all the extra power I produce is sent back to the city lines. This system has a double fall out system. One is exactly like you said the circuit load would trip the inverter into overload status. Then the other catch the inverter is bound to the city by matching frequency cycles. So as soon as the city frequency drop outside the pre-set limit in the panel the inverter drops the city line like a hot potato goes to inverter mode. I pretty sure I'm set at 55 Hz at a bottom limit.

[Wild and Free]

If the home is wired correctly with an actual transfer switch there is no way of power going either way as the only thing the generator sees are the circuits wired into the transfer switch which is past the main breaker box.