RV275s

[98whitelightnin]

A buddy of mine and I had basically the same mods done to our 12v trucks, except him with nv4500 and mine was built 47rh. Both compound turbos and a lot of fuel.  He replaced 3 new rebuilt nv4500's while my Goerend 47 keeps on going. I was always a manual guy too until I got my auto built right.

[notlimah]

Yea see 98, that's the other things. I've never been in a built auto cummins so I don't really know what to expect. I know all about the slush box stocker, but no idea about built auto. I think if it were built right with like 2nd gear lock up, firm shifting when needed but smooth while cruising that the auto starts to seem more appealing. But there's always just something about rowing gears that'll be appealing to me. Ughhh decisions decisions!

[IBMobile]

                                   THIS IS ALL YOU NEED TO KNOW!

     

[CSM]

52 minutes ago, notlimah said:

Yea see 98, that's the other things. I've never been in a built auto cummins so I don't really know what to expect. I know all about the slush box stocker, but no idea about built auto. I think if it were built right with like 2nd gear lock up, firm shifting when needed but smooth while cruising that the auto starts to seem more appealing. But there's always just something about rowing gears that'll be appealing to me. Ughhh decisions decisions!

 

Try it before you go through the pain of a manual swap.  I don't have 2nd lockup, and frankly, I don't need it.  A quality converter and good valve body make a huge difference.  

[notlimah]

37 minutes ago, IBMobile said:

                                   THIS IS ALL YOU NEED TO KNOW!

     

 

too funny!

 

29 minutes ago, CSM said:

 

Try it before you go through the pain of a manual swap.  I don't have 2nd lockup, and frankly, I don't need it.  A quality converter and good valve body make a huge difference.  

 

I might have too. What all do you have done to your trans?

[CSM]

1 hour ago, notlimah said:

I might have too. What all do you have done to your trans?

 

Basic ATS stage 2.

ATS converter, low stall... probably wouldn't do that again.  Nice for driving around town, but marginal for towing. 

ATS billet input

full rebuild with Borg Warner red lining

ATS valve body

 

I probably could have gotten off way cheaper elsewhere, and now I would likely go through our site vendor, as he seems a good dude.  

 

Caj Flynn, our former high miler, with a 02 auto with 1.2 mil miles or so it had a couple tidbits for towing with an auto:  For heavy towing at GCVW, you will break input shafts every 180k or so of really heavy towing.  He recommended a billet input, a valve body/trans kit, and a good torque converter with more than one clutch.  Manuals will break eventually too.  

 

The valve body should increase the line pressure to the point that the stock bands work fine, but a small bump helps.  There are other governor mods, sensor mods, etc, but those three above are the basics of reliability.  Slipping of the converter clutch or bands creates heat and excess wear.  Heat breaks down fluid which also cools the clutches. When parts and oil get too hot they aren't properly lubricated and they start breaking down.  Once the gears start to have noticeable surface fatigue, it is only a matter of time.  This is the same as a manual, but with a manual we tend to forget they are there.  Stock, the manuals are far tougher than the autos.  For high power high load applications with a well built auto... I think its a wash.  For drivability, IMO, the auto has a big jump from 2nd to 3rd that the 5sp or 6sp manuals don't.  Manuals also have granny gear, which is really nice at times.  Personally, I would always rather tow heavy with a manual than an auto. However, I don't like rowing across town.   

 

Something else to keep in mind about fatigue.  Autos and manuals need more than just bearings, bands, and syncros replaced.  Both the 47RE and the NV4500 have gears in them and shafts that wear out.  A full rebuild of either trans should address all this, which is why an early rebuild of either trans will be much cheaper than a rebuild after all the gears need replaced.  

 

@Dynamic is the man for transmissions as far as I know on this forum.  I've had good luck with my ATS trans, but I've also talked to folks who got screwed over by ATS.  I can't say I was impressed with their shop staff or customer service, but they got it done quickly and it has run excellent.  

 

PS, if I were going to do a manual swap, I would probably do a G56 like TFaoro did.  The NV series manuals are good, but they aren't a G56.  

 

PSS.  There is a reason than manual trucks came with dana 80s and not 70s!  If you swap to a manual, start looking for a dana 80.

Edited September 18, 2016 by CSM

[notlimah]

53 minutes ago, CSM said:

PS, if I were going to do a manual swap, I would probably do a G56 like TFaoro did.  The NV series manuals are good, but they aren't a G56.  

 

PSS.  There is a reason than manual trucks came with dana 80s and not 70s!  If you swap to a manual, start looking for a dana 80.

 

Thanks for all the insight on this auto vs manual debate. These last two points you made are what have really been the toughest debates for me. Not to knock the 4500/5600 trans, I wouldn't mind having either, but if I'm going to swap I'd prefer to go G56 since its the best, but that's more effort then I'd want to put into a swap right now. The rear axle was something I'd thought about as well, and being that I have an 02, finding a dana 80 with discs is tough. If I'm going to do a swap, I want the best, and that's the G56 and dana 80, but those combined with everything else involved and the time,  start to add up to a lot more then a built auto.

 

On the flip side, I don't want a built auto that drives fine empty but has quirks when towing. That's something I'm hoping Dynamic can put to rest and work his magic so you could have the best of both worlds with the built auto.

 

My towing is and probably never going to be close to GCVW. Obviously I can't predict what all I'd tow, but it wouldn't be something I'd regularly be doing. More then likely I'd be around 8-10k MAX regular towing, pulling a TT for camping trips.

 

I really don't think I can say that I'd prefer one trans over the other, being that they both have their pros and cons, so really at this point it comes down to getting the best trans setup I can get for what fits my budget and future power goals. 

[CTcummins24V]

I'll poke the fire...after all my tranny work, I still want a manual. Having complete control over shifts can't be beat. Daily driving, stuck in bumper to bumper traffic frequently would be the only downside to a manual, in my opinion. Cost wise between a built auto and manual is comparable, minus the labor time for the manual swap. 

 

After upgrading to a low stall triple disc, billet input and billet flexplate, I probably have close to $5k in the tranny, and I still don't like the shifting. My biased opinion.

 

[CSM]

you could just buy a 3rd gen...

Haha.

[IBMobile]

14 minutes ago, CTcummins24V said:

I'll poke the fire...after all my tranny work, I still want a manual.

[notlimah]

13 minutes ago, CTcummins24V said:

I'll poke the fire...after all my tranny work, I still want a manual. Having complete control over shifts can't be beat. Daily driving, stuck in bumper to bumper traffic frequently would be the only downside to a manual, in my opinion. Cost wise between a built auto and manual is comparable, minus the labor time for the manual swap. 

 

After upgrading to a low stall triple disc, billet input and billet flexplate, I probably have close to $5k in the tranny, and I still don't like the shifting. My biased opinion.

 

 

Do you mind sharing what parts you put in? Or who did it? I sorta feel like the majority of auto builds depend on who did the build.

 

9 minutes ago, CSM said:

you could just buy a 3rd gen...

Haha.

 

True! But with 3 trucks already in the driveway and the wife telling me it needs to be 2 or else... I don't want a manual THAT bad! haha

[Mopar1973Man]

Like my truck being a close example. NV4500 5 speed manual went 263k miles before breaking the mainshaft. Then first clutch failed at 150k miles. Now compare the light duty 1996 Dodge Ram 1500 only made 160k and the entire transmission required rebuilding and torque converter replaced. 

 

22 minutes ago, CTcummins24V said:

Daily driving, stuck in bumper to bumper traffic frequently would be the only downside to a manual, in my opinion.

 

Should try small town city or residential streets. City speed limit is 25 MPH and all residential is 15 MPH. Then stop sign every where. I will admit either auto or manual transmissions they both get hot in slow crawl driving. Even like my back country driving on and off the throttle, constantly changing gears, etc.

[leathermaneod]

I think the auto vs manual thing is also at least partially kinda like the grass is always greener thing. I have a manual and sometimes wish I had a built auto. Never gona swap though lol Other guys have built autos and wish they had an nv4500 lol. There are guys out there doing manual to auto swaps! Not saying this is always the case, just an observation of what often seems true. 

[notlimah]

I definitely agree @leathermaneod! I think points you and others have brought up prior have me leaning back towards just building the auto. I have faith that @Dynamic won't disappoint and by the time I'm driving out of there I'd forget all about a manual swap.

 

And if for some reason it comes back up, I'll be on the hunt for a nice 1st gen!

[leathermaneod]

2 minutes ago, notlimah said:

And if for some reason it comes back up, I'll be on the hunt for a nice 1st gen!

I would kill to own a clean first gen like some of the ones I've seen. There was one on the Baltimore CL a while back that looked like it had just rolled off the lot! Awesome paint too! Dude was asking like $23k iirc. It was an auto though.

[notlimah]

Wowzers! That seems a little high! Hahah 

[KATOOM]

I think this all proves how important it is to have two Dodge Cummins trucks.

[notlimah]

I have two Cummins! Problem is they're both autos! 

[Mopar1973Man]

I was crazy smart... 96 Dodge gassed and 02 Cummins. Some days wish I bought an 96 Cummins. 

[TFaoro]

3 hours ago, Mopar1973Man said:

I was crazy smart... 96 Dodge gassed and 02 Cummins. Some days wish I bought an 96 Cummins. 

I've still got that 01 ram 1500 auto sitting at home with a blown engine. Considering dropping an engine in it and using it for a farm truck to do the running around and keeping the diesel for pulling trailers and trips. Now to find an engine....