ATF and 2 stroke in fuel?

[leathermaneod]

Hey guys,

so anytime I hear something on CF that I find questionable, I come here to let the people I trust set me straight lol

If any of you are bored, take a look at the comments toward the end of this thread and let me know your thoughts.

http://www.cumminsforum.com/forum/3rd-gen-powertrain/2095985-low-mpg-new-post.html#/forumsite/20661/topics/2095985?page=4

As I say in the thread, I though ATF was a major no go for all diesels, and the same for 2 stroke in an egr engine, but these guys claim not. What's the deal? 

Edited September 17, 2016 by leathermaneod

[TFaoro]

You're correct. The ATF burns horribly and leaves tons of carbon buildup on the tips of the injectors. (maybe valves to, but can't confirm that) Not good for any diesel. 

 

You're a bit off on your years. There was no EGR or DPF until 07.5, which is when the 6.7 came out. Before then all they had was a cat. 03-04.5 had a slightly different piston and injector design, and slightly less power than the 04.5+ (305 vs 325 for the HO)

 

2 stroke is fine in all 5.9's at half the ratio we put it in. 0.5oz per gallon.

 

I wouldn't run it on a truck with a DPF in it though for fear of plugging it faster and causing it to regen more often. 

[leathermaneod]

Thanks Tyler! Didn't the early common rails have some kind of in cylinder EGR or 3rd injection event? Won't the 2 stroke plug up a cat at all? Did you read that thread I linked? Those guys are convinced that ATF is some kind of miracle juice fore their trucks lol they do say it's got to be non synthetic ATF though. 

[Buzzinhalfdozen]

ATF is a pretty old school "additive"  Plenty of guys used to dump anything and everything in the tanks of old IDI diesels. Waste oil, ATF, basically anything petroleum based. But I guarantee it wasn't doing anything good for the engine vs. just straight fuel. 

 

So so one guy claims to have "fixed" an injector immediately after adding some ATF and a few haven't noticed any ill effects while running it... Won't make me a believer. Heck I could take a piss in the tank at every fill up and not notice any ill effects. 

[CSM]

Back in the 60s, atf was pretty much light oil with whale oil.  Over the road trucks ran on far heavier and cheaper fuel oil (not far from the bunker oil used for ships).  Smoking was a given.  Engines were expected to use oil as fuel.  

 

Our engines are different, even the 12 valve is.  Atf is also nowhere near the light straight hydraulic oil it once was.  

 

I dont even use 2 stroke anymore due to the hassle.  

Edited September 18, 2016 by CSM

[leathermaneod]

The whole idea of using ATF just seems very wrong to me. I certainly wouldn't risk it in a HPCR without extensive and conclusive test data. I use 2 stroke regularly in my 24v. I don't really find it to be a hassle. I just keep the little 16 oz bottles in my door pocket and refill them from a gallon jug. 

[TFaoro]

1 hour ago, leathermaneod said:

Thanks Tyler! Didn't the early common rails have some kind of in cylinder EGR or 3rd injection event? Won't the 2 stroke plug up a cat at all? Did you read that thread I linked? Those guys are convinced that ATF is some kind of miracle juice fore their trucks lol they do say it's got to be non synthetic ATF though. 

No such thing as in in-cylinder EGR. What you may be referring to is the cam design. The exhaust valve closes before the piston is at TDC, keeping some of the exhaust in.... emissions reasons. 

 

There are 3 injection events, which are pre - main - post. Either way that shouldn't effect any sort of additive. 

Not sure if it'll plug it up or not. Most people remove them anyway. There's no sensor behind it, so you don't even need programming. Heck my dad's 12V had a cat... half plugged at 50K when he took the exhaust apart and hollowed it out. 

 

Either way I wouldn't run it. I'd rather run Optilube summer blend. Better lubricity and waaaaaaay cheaper than running 2 stroke.

[IBMobile]

15 hours ago, TFaoro said:

I'd rather run Optilube summer blend. Better lubricity and waaaaaaay cheaper than running 2 stroke.

How much do you buy at a time?  I see a gallon (128oz) is $54.46 plus shipping verse  the 8oz 6 pack (48oz) for $35.68 plus shipping.

 

Optilub  1oz treats10 gallons  

Optilub  Cost $54.46/1gal (128oz)  $.4254/oz or $.0425/treated gallon of diesel 

Optilub  Cost $35.68/6 pack-8oz bottles (48oz)  $.7433/oz or $.0743/treated gallon of diesel

                                              

WalMart Super Tech TC-W3  1oz treats 1 gallon

WalMart Cost $12.88/1gal (128oz)  $.1006/oz or $.1006/treated gallon of diesel

 

For the same cost you could treat 303 gallons of fuel using Optilub (from the 1gal jug) verse 128 gallons with the Super Tech.

[TFaoro]

12 minutes ago, IBMobile said:

How much do you buy at a time?  I see a gallon (128oz) is $54.46 plus shipping verse  the 8oz 6 pack (48oz) for $35.68 plus shipping.

 

Optilub  1oz treats10 gallons  

Optilub  Cost $54.46/1gal (128oz)  $.4254/oz or $.0425/treated gallon of diesel 

Optilub  Cost $35.68/6 pack-8oz bottles (48oz)  $.7433/oz or $.0743/treated gallon of diesel

                                              

WalMart Super Tech TC-W3  1oz treats 1 gallon

WalMart Cost $12.88/1gal (128oz)  $.1006/oz or $.1006/treated gallon of diesel

 

For the same cost you could treat 303 gallons of fuel using Optilub (from the 1gal jug) verse 128 gallons with the Super Tech.

Careful, I did say the summer blend not XDP

 

1 gallon of opti-lube summer blend costs 75.95 on ebay. It can treat 2,560 gallons of diesel, equating that to $0.02966 per gallon. If you round up, that's 3 cents per gallon where the 2 stroke is about 10 cents. You can effectively cut your costs by 1/3.

 

Given the numbers in the table, I bet the HFFR score would be about the same when 2 stroke is added at 1oz per gallon. 

 

[NightHawk]

I am going to try this next, has the best HFFR score with a great mix ratio.

 

http://opti-lube.com/diesel-fuel-improver-xl.html

 

Normal Lubrication Rate: 1 to 1280 (1 ounce per 10 gallons of fuel)

Xtreme Lubrication Rate rate: 1 to 512 (1 ounce per 4 gallons of fuel)

 

[Mopar1973Man]

Are you remembering to add the freight into that cost too? People tend to do the math only on the products but since Opti-lube is a freight only product you have to remember add the freight charges into the math and then it get narrower on the savings. 

[TFaoro]

12 minutes ago, NightHawk said:

I am going to try this next, has the best HFFR score with a great mix ratio.

 

http://opti-lube.com/diesel-fuel-improver-xl.html

 

Normal Lubrication Rate: 1 to 1280 (1 ounce per 10 gallons of fuel)

Xtreme Lubrication Rate rate: 1 to 512 (1 ounce per 4 gallons of fuel)

 

Where are you seeing that??? It's not in this article...

 

11 minutes ago, Mopar1973Man said:

Are you remembering to add the freight into that cost too? People tend to do the math only on the products but since Opti-lube is a freight only product you have to remember add the freight charges into the math and then it get narrower on the savings. 

Negative ghost rider, freight is free!

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Opti-Lube-Summer-Blend-Gallon-Diesel-Fuel-Additive-/232045537407?hash=item3606fde87f:g:bcYAAOSw-itXrJiX&vxp=mtr

Edited September 18, 2016 by TFaoro

[Mopar1973Man]

Might be time for the article to be updated... 

[IBMobile]

1 hour ago, TFaoro said:

Careful, I did say the summer blend not XDP

 

I didn't notice that I was on the Optilub XDP site.  Summer blend is still a heck of a cost savings.

[NightHawk]

@TFaoro

 

See attached PDF

 

• Pump Diesel Fuel                              Major Axis 580 μm
• Pump Diesel Fuel w/ XPD 1:512        Major Axis 440 μm
• Pump Diesel Fuel w/ XL 1:512           Major Axis 260 μm
• Pump Diesel Fuel w/ XL 1:1280         Major Axis 390 μm

intertektesting.pdf

[leathermaneod]

Ok I must be missing something. I thought 2 stroke was widely accepted as one of the best additives for 1st and 2nd gens? What's this about optilube? Is it really better AND cheaper???

[notlimah]

I agree! Where's this opti-lube been hiding and why has it taken so long to come out, especially on this site!!??

[dripley]

I has been around as long as I have been here. 

 

[dripley]

I have thought about using the Optilube in the past but it just seems easier to get the 2 stroke. With all the bio diesel I am seeing these days it might become a moot point any way.

 

I have B 15 in the tank right now. Mixed with what I think is straight #2 but you cant be sure since 5% or below does not have to be labeled. 

Edited September 19, 2016 by dripley

[ffchris]

Correct me if I'm wrong.  It seems that in all of the independent tests cited  on the forums, biodiesel mixed with regular diesel gives the largest improvement in HFRR scores.  Also the tests cited don't use 2 stroke oil at the 1 oz/gallon ratio.  Biodiesel gives the best improvement and I think would be the least expensive additive.