Injector Time

[deehammer]

Ok so my slight miss at idle when fully warm is finally getting on my nerves.  From my research it is most likely the injectors.  I figure after 270K they need to be at least pulled and cleaned, and while doing this I may as well upgrade a bit.  I am thinking of putting in RV275s.  I do have a few questions that I could use some wisdom on as I have not played with injectors before.

1.  Do I need to upgrade my fuel delivery system?  Now don't throw stones at me but I still have the stock setup with the original injection pump.   I have replaced my LP 3 times over the years and monitor my fuel pressure post filter with a mechanical gauge in the cab.  Pressure is always 18 psi or greater at idle and I never dip below 10-12 psi at open throttle.  I am not against upgrading the pump and lines however i do believe that the newer stock replacement LPs have come a long way since the original Carter pumps.  

2.  I have the stock turbo, don't think I will have to upgrade with this but thought I would ask anyways.....I do have an EGT gauge and 4" exhaust system so I am good there.

3.  Valve Cover Gasket? I hear these are pretty solid.  What are the chances of this needing replacement? Cost?  Mine does have a little leakage over the years but nothing too bad.

4.  Cross Over Tubes? Research has me feeling like my stock ones should work fine (engine serial number check is good) however I do feel that I need to replace the O-rings.

5.  Injectors?  Again I don't want to go too crazy but if you have an opinion let me know.  My other thought is just to rebuild/clean the current injectors maybe upgrade the tips??  Has anyone done this.  Seems like the crossover tubes might fit better with this option.

 

 

[Dieselfuture]

Man if you went that long already I don't think rv275 would need much more fuel, personally I would upgrade.

Your turbo should be fine with 275

Not sure on the valve cover gasket after 270k  you may need one, maybe 40-50 bucks

I would think crossover tubes would be fine look at them when you take em out. Definitely all new o rings, crossover tubes and injectors.

I would just get the rv275 instead of putting tips on your old ones, keep your old injectors for future as there is no core on RVs. Someday you might get tips for them, but you will always want to set em at same pop pressure, flow matching is also good. Just cleaning them isn't going to get you anywhere at this point. 

Edited March 24, 2017 by Dieselfuture

[Mopar1973Man]

1 hour ago, deehammer said:

1.  Do I need to upgrade my fuel delivery system?

No. RV275 are the stock injectors used for the Cummins ISB for RV application. 

 

1 hour ago, deehammer said:

2.  I have the stock turbo, don't think I will have to upgrade with this but thought I would ask anyways.....I do have an EGT gauge and 4" exhaust system so I am good there.

 

 

No. Still the RV series Cummins came with HX35 turbos. I'm still running 3" exhaust yet. 

 

1 hour ago, deehammer said:

3.  Valve Cover Gasket? I hear these are pretty solid.  What are the chances of this needing replacement?

My is 15 years old now and 300k miles just about and still not leaking. So if its not leaking now don't bother replacing it. They are rather expensive.

 

1 hour ago, deehammer said:

4.  Cross Over Tubes? Research has me feeling like my stock ones should work fine (engine serial number check is good) however I do feel that I need to replace the O-rings.

 

That's fine to replace the o-rings most likely need to after all the years. Make sure to clean the crossover tube holes out with brake cleaner and blow them out with compressed air. 

 

1 hour ago, deehammer said:

5.  Injectors?  Again I don't want to go too crazy but if you have an opinion let me know.

So far I've tried RV275, +50HP and now jumping up to +75HP SAC injectors. I would say RV275 is safe for stock fuel. I would consider upgrading if you looking at +50HP or larger.

 

1 hour ago, deehammer said:

My other thought is just to rebuild/clean the current injectors maybe upgrade the tips??

Most likely cost more that just buying built injectors already. Nothing really to rebuilding. Just buying nozzles and pop testing. When you price that all out typically it's higher than just buying already made injectors. 

 

1 hour ago, Dieselfuture said:

Just cleaning them isn't going to get you anywhere at this point. 

True... If the pintle and nozzle are worn out and pissy then cleaning isn't going to change that fact at all. You are going to have to replace the nozzles and pintles as a set and then pop test. Again this will most likely cost more. 

 

Just checking prices it's cheaper to do +50HP injector than RV275's. My +75HP are just about the same price as a RV275 injector...

 

RV275 +40HP - $345

https://dieselautopower.com/bosch-new-injector-rv275-marine-300-40hp-0432193635/ 

 

+50 HP VCO's - $325

https://dieselautopower.com/diesel-auto-power-50hp-performance-injectors-7x0-008-vco-vp7x8vco/

 

+75HP SAC's - $350

https://dieselautopower.com/diesel-auto-power-75hp-performance-injectors-7x0-0085-sac-vp7x85sac75/

[dripley]

The rv 275 get my vote. Ran a set for 150k with good fuel mileage and nice bump in power. With your stock set up you will like them. Matter of fact I am going to send mine off and have them rebuilt. 

 

Just put a set fo DAP 50's in mine three weeks ago. Decent power just a little smokier than I like.

 

I just replaced my valve cover gasket after 39k. It was leaking a little in the back. Put a Fel Pro in and it is fine for now. Just need to keep an eye on it for while. I am buying parts on a budget for now.

[dripley]

The above should say I changed the valve cover gasket at 395k miles and not 39k.

[GSX455]

I have 360k on my stock injectors, so it definitely sounds like time for a new set.  I have a Blue Chip Special X IP which is claimed to have higher pressure, but could you not go higher than 50 HP?   I have FASS DDRP lift pump, would the +75 HP  (SAC-VP7X85SAC75) good for my setup?

 

Thanks.

 

 

Edited March 27, 2017 by GSX455
typo on P/N

[jlbayes]

A nice set of 7x.010s is what I generally recommend but if you do not have the tuning or lift pump to support them. A smaller set would be wiser.

[Me78569]

14 hours ago, GSX455 said:

I have 360k on my stock injectors, so it definitely sounds like time for a new set.  I have a Blue Chip Special X IP which is claimed to have higher pressure, but could you not go higher than 50 HP?   I have FASS DDRP lift pump, would the +75 HP  (SAC-VP7X85SAC75) good for my setup?

 

Thanks.

 

 

 

 

What I have read on the bluechip site makes be believe the special x pump is just an SO pump with an HO computer.     

 

 

as long as you have SOME inlet fuel pressure I Would say go ahead and get some 7 x .009's with the hope that you would put a lift pump on there quick fast and in a hurry.  This of course is assuming that you actually NEED new injectors.

Edited March 27, 2017 by Me78569

[dave110]

On ‎3‎/‎24‎/‎2017 at 7:11 PM, Mopar1973Man said:

 

Just checking prices it's cheaper to do +50HP injector than RV275's. My +75HP are just about the same price as a RV275 injector...

 

RV275 +40HP - $345

https://dieselautopower.com/bosch-new-injector-rv275-marine-300-40hp-0432193635/ 

 

+50 HP VCO's - $325

https://dieselautopower.com/diesel-auto-power-50hp-performance-injectors-7x0-008-vco-vp7x8vco/

 

+75HP SAC's - $350

https://dieselautopower.com/diesel-auto-power-75hp-performance-injectors-7x0-0085-sac-vp7x85sac75/

Just curious. What made you choose SAC's over VCO's?

[Mopar1973Man]

1 hour ago, dave110 said:

Just curious. What made you choose SAC's over VCO's?

 

3 Things according to Jacob @dieselautopower...

 

1. SAC's typically have less issues than VCO's.

2. SAC's typically can flow more fuel.

3. Pintle modifications on these injectors have been measured to flow more like a +90HP injector. 

 

Now that being said @Me78569 is running 7x.010 injectors (+100 HP) and still reaching 24-25 MPG's completely smokeless tune on the Quadzilla. So I should be able to match him for the most part safely with the HX35/40 turbo (60/60/12) and the 7x0.0085 (+75HP SAC's). Being Me78569 can still flow more air with his VGT over my HX35/40 so being just a bit smaller on the injectors and turbo should be a close match to him.  

[jlbayes]

Those turbos are closer than you think Mike. Hot side is extremely inefficient as far as flow through the vgt.

[Mopar1973Man]

6 minutes ago, jlbayes said:

Those turbos are closer than you think Mike. Hot side is extremely inefficient as far as flow through the vgt.

HX35/40 vs VGT? Seriously? 

[Me78569]

16 minutes ago, jlbayes said:

Those turbos are closer than you think Mike. Hot side is extremely inefficient as far as flow through the vgt.

Meh no issues here,  However I am well within the map of the turbo  

[KATOOM]

12 hours ago, Me78569 said:

What I have read on the bluechip site makes be believe the special x pump is just an SO pump with an HO computer.    

 

Chip explained to me years ago that the "Special X" was their own build assembled with the most precision tolerance new components, put together by whom Blue Chip contracted with.  The higher precision of the assembly was supposed to help this VP be more efficient and offer a very slight increase in HP.   But back then the Special X was around $400 more than his regular SO/HO pumps.

[Me78569]

Their site now says "all bosch oem parts"  I can't believe that bosch has different tolerance parts.  

I gotta call BS on it.

Edited March 28, 2017 by Me78569

[KATOOM]

I couldnt say.....but you do have a point.

[Me78569]

Me either, but so far what I have learned when it comes to the VP44 generation trucks is that there is a TON of misleading information out there aimed at making a buck.  

 

I tend to be less of an optimist when it comes to this stuff now days.

 

 

[KATOOM]

Thus the reason why I didnt go with Chip's more expensive Special X either.

[Mopar1973Man]

Sorry I just don't see the price vs. Name working out.

[JAG1]

Completely baffling how a guy that rebuilds Cummins injection pumps can tell me right off what went wrong and why I most likely got stranded and had to be towed home. And then when he gives me the part I need tells me that a VP44 will blow its diaphragm, that high fuel pressure above 12 will have a cumulative effect and eventually blow the diaphragm

 

Then goes on to tell me that when the overflow valve is open it will starve the injection pump for fuel, that fuel gets diverted back to the tank when open.

 

Yet the rebuilder has done a good job on both rebuilt injection pumps I got from them. One VP and one VE.