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6 Speed manual transmission ~ NV5600 ~ General Questions

leety
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LiveOak

LiveOak

Posted
Posted
17 minutes ago, AH64ID said:

 

You are talking MTF correct?

I don't know why I keep calling it MTL.  I meant MTF.  Manual Synchromesh Transmission Fluid 5W-30.  

9 minutes ago, Mopar1973Man said:

50 SAE is also GL-4 fluid.

So I am confused now.  I thought you had an NV5600 in your truck now Mike.  Or do you have an NV4500???  :shrug:

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NIsaacs

NIsaacs

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On ‎10‎/‎20‎/‎2018 at 7:05 AM, Dieselfuture said:

How long have you been using 15/40 in your nv5600. Anything abnormal when you drain it? 

 

Since my first oil change at 34k, that's what the miles were when I bought it used in '03. I use it in  my '91 Dodge D-250 and my Ford F-350, from the first oil changes. The '91 has 326K now, the Ford about 150K. I did try Valvoline 50W synthetic manual transmission fluid once, but didn't like it in the '01, so on the next change I went back to 15/40. The '91 and the Ford still have it in them but they don't get many miles. They both like it, but when the time comes they will go back to 15/40 also, I really like it.

 

Here is a picture with 36K on the 15/40, about 3 weeks ago.

0926181444.jpg

0926181444a.jpg

Edited by NIsaacs
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NIsaacs

NIsaacs

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9 hours ago, Dieselfuture said:

Well I think it's safe to say it's a success. Not sure if heard anyone else using 15/40 motor oil in NV5600 for that long without side effects 

 

Yes, I think so. Here is something that I posted on another forum that I think has some merit.

 

ATF has an additive in it to make it less slippery, to grab and hold automatic clutches. Same thing for motorcycles/ATV clutches, they spec the engine oil accordingly. No oil with the "fuel savings" logo, too slippery. With this in mind, "maybe" manual transmissions and t-cases spec ATF for the syncros. Same with Syncromesh type oils, it helps the inexperience drivers shift a manual transmission. I noticed this when I went from my factory fill on my NV5600 to 15/40 engine oil. The shifts are slower which is the way I shift anyway, so I don't need or want the syncromesh.

19 hours ago, AH64ID said:

My only shifting issues are stopped it hates to go into gear sometime, but that's a clutch issue and aside from pulling the trans it's here to stay for a while. 

 

Mine will do the same thing sometimes. It seems to only happen when I am in a real tight dump location and I have to go forward and back multiple times. Like you, I don't think it is my oil but the clutch. I think sometimes it gets mad at me:)

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NIsaacs

NIsaacs

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On ‎6‎/‎20‎/‎2018 at 7:06 AM, Mopar1973Man said:

 

This is my point. There is room to play with fluids. Dodge/Chrysler using one thing and Mercedes stating another. Basically comes down to viscosity and the rating of the lube. Now look back at the Getrag's G360 transmissions again produced by Mercedes. You'll see people didn't hold to the spec set by Dodge they experimented a bit and switch from 5w-30 engine oil to some using GL-4 fluids and some using synthetic 15w-40 engine oil. Notice some people when up in viscosity to keep the oil in contact with the bearings and gear teeth longer when the oil is hotter like during towing?

 

This story continues today like @trreed points out where people are changing lubricants to solve spec problems. In the case of what he points out that Dodge went with ATF+4 because they already use it for the automatics and thin enough to make for smoother shift quality. As trreed points out most are going up in viscosity for better protection. Kind of like myself... After the study work and finding the 50 weight (90 weight gear lube) is actually thicker than the 75w-80. Or in trreed case ATF+4 to syncromech which is thicker. Hmmm... See a trend here?

 

 

I agree.

 

I will also add, I don't overfill any of my manual transmissions, they all have a fill plug, I use it. The Dodge boys on TDR and other forums say you have to overfill the Getrag, NV4500, NV5600 and the G-56....so did all these manufactures install the plug in the wrong place?

 

This is what Dana/Spicer says:  Overfilling
Do not overfill the transmission. This usually results in oil breakdown due to excessive heat and aeration form the churning action of the gears. Early breakdown of the oil will result in heavy varnish and sludge deposits that plug up oil ports and build up on splines and bearings.

http://www.ttcautomotive.com/anexos/2309-4_134.pdf

 

This is what Eaton/Fuller/Clark says about overfilling:

"REFILL- First, remove all dirt around the filler plug. Then refill with new oil of a grade recommended for the existing season and prevailing service. Fill to the bottom of the level testing plug positioned on the side of the transmission. DO NOT OVERFILL, as the excess will serve no useful purpose. If the oil level is too high, it will cause excessive oil churning and high oil temperatures and possible leakage."

https://www.eprogear.com/eaton-transmission-service-manuals.html

 

 

 

Edited by NIsaacs
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LiveOak

LiveOak

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36 minutes ago, Towrigdually said:

For the nv5600 guys, for awhile Cody at super stick transmissions apparently has been running 50w without problems in multiple transmissions. Might try it myself on the next change. 

 

doesn't have a webpsge, but you can look them up on facebook. 

 Here you go:

 

https://www.facebook.com/SuperStickTransmissions/

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Mopar1973Man

Mopar1973Man

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Thank you @Towrigdually

 

I knew at the end of the day the 50 SAE transmission fluid could be used in an NV5600 transmission. All this scare of specifications and GL-4 or MT-1 spec is nothing. Still in all its got steel gears, with carbon fiber synchros, and bearings. The synchros require GL-4 fluid for sure. Being that the 50 SAE is rated for industrial trucks I'm sure it would hold up just fine for our light duty transmissions. Both NV4500 and Nv5600 transmission. Even in a previous post, I've asked my rebuilder and (Abe @ Weller Truck, Boise) said 50 SAE can be used in NV5600 as well with no harm.

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LiveOak

LiveOak

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5 minutes ago, Mopar1973Man said:

Thank you @Towrigdually

 

I knew at the end of the day the 50 SAE transmission fluid could be used in an NV5600 transmission. All this scare of specifications and GL-4 or MT-1 spec is nothing. Still in all its got steel gears, with carbon fiber synchros, and bearings. The synchros require GL-4 fluid for sure. Being that the 50 SAE is rated for industrial trucks I'm sure it would hold up just fine for our light duty transmissions. Both NV4500 and Nv5600 transmission. Even in a previous post, I've asked my rebuilder and (Abe @ Weller Truck, Boise) said 50 SAE can be used in NV5600 as well with no harm.

My biggest question and concern is the shift qualities of the NV5600 with SAE 50 lube in it especially in cold weather prior to warm up.  It would be very helpful to hear from folks who are currently using SAE 50 in their NV5600 and get their observations and reviews. Yours included Mike if you are using it now or in the past.  For some reason I thought you had an NV5600 in your 2002.  

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Mopar1973Man

Mopar1973Man

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3 minutes ago, LiveOak said:

My biggest question and concern is the shift qualities of the NV5600 with SAE 50 lube in it especially in cold weather prior to warm up

 

I've been down to -40*F and zero shift problems. It straight weight 50 lube so it thins down good. Also, all 50 SAE is Synthetic GL-4 fluid so it going to have the good flow characteristics of synthetic. Coming up on 100k miles of service as well.

 

All my specs are in my garage...

https://mopar1973man.com/garage/vehicle/101-2002-dodge-ram-2500/?show=tab_2

Edited by Mopar1973Man
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AH64ID

AH64ID

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30 minutes ago, LiveOak said:

That is with your NV4500.  The NV5600 is a totally different and picky animal with respect to lubes.    

 

Exactly. There are plenty of accounts of a GL-4 and the NV5600 not playing well, but the stuff superstick runs doesn't appear to be a GL-4, just a MT-1. But it could be missing specs too. 

 

Even the stuff @Mopar1973Man runs only has GL-4 on the bottle, and not on the website or if you call them. 

 

It's ironic that MT-1 is a spec for non-syncro transmissions... 

 

GL-4 spec actually says it's often suitable where MT-1 isn't. Kinda funny. 

 

I can't find one online spec where MT-1 and GL-4 are on the same bottle. Only place I've seen it is Michaels photo of his SAE50. 

 

I can find MT-1/GL-1 and MT-1/GL-5 thou. 

Edited by AH64ID
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Mopar1973Man

Mopar1973Man

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I hate to say it but lubricants change and I've already proved that 50 SAE is safe to use these transmissions for sure. Time to let go of the old school scare of transmission fluids and specs. Being that there is now a member here running 15w-40 engine oil in his NV5600 and this Facebook transmission builder running 50 SAE in their transmissions.

 

29 minutes ago, LiveOak said:

The NV5600 is a totally different and picky animal with respect to lubes. 

 

I wonder how much fact is in that.


They (internet) claimed that synchros would be destroyed in the NV4500 if you didn't run the Castrol Syntorq and poor shift would occur. (Yeah I was caught up in that scare for YEARS! No more!) 

 

I can say FACT: that is not true. I've got 6k miles left to 100k miles and shift quality has been perfect. No synchro problems and shift quality is awesome even at -40*F weather. I MUST drive every TTS (Tues, Thurs, Sat) and weather and temperature have had zero impact on shift quality. Currently, the weather is cold enough now I don't even see the trans temp needle move off 100*F all day. I'm NOT using FASS coolers so the trans keeps warm better in winter weather.

 

 

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LiveOak

LiveOak

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Yes, Mike.  In your case I agree........but you are using an NV4500.  So far, I am hearing crickets from folks with NV5600.  I left a message for Cody at Super Stick Transmissions with my questions.  I would like to try using the SAE 50 synthetic but unless I can find observations and reports back from folks who are actually using it in their NV5600, I am a bit cautious.  

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