Quadzilla or lift pump first?

[trreed]

Yeah, the more you move it, the more it heats!  If you get diesel too hot (and WAY hotter than a lift pump or VP ever could), you'll get black gunk breaking out of the fuel. I forget what that is called.

[CTcummins24V]

 

40 minutes ago, trreed said:

Yeah, the more you move it, the more it heats!  If you get diesel too hot (and WAY hotter than a lift pump or VP ever could), you'll get black gunk breaking out of the fuel. I forget what that is called.

Asphaltene

I had some of this in my fuel filter housing. Looks like little pieces of roofing shingles/asphalt.

[LegendaryKing]

WOW!  I just spent some time researching and there is some serious pseudo science going on with regards to fuel cooling.  People arguing about BTU's, viscosity, volume, etc etc.  Nothing of what I read had any real hard evidence backing up anything ... just wild claims and people pointing to the fact that fuel coolers exist.  Know what else exists?  The tornado fuel saver, fuel rail magnets, engine ionizers ...

 

This reminds me of the trans fluid to lubricate injectors debate ... it all started when farmers started getting caught with red fuel on roadside inspections (aka running non-taxed off road diesel in their on road vehicles).  An easy way to get out of trouble was to say you were running transmission fluid and that wasn't the die they put in non-taxed off road diesel. And then the game of telephone started ....

 

I'm not saying fuel temperature is something that needs to be addressed, I'm just saying if anyone has any evidence/fact based information it would make my personal research a lot easier.

[dripley]

I have my AD set with all returns straight to the fuel basket. The fuel pick is in there too. My normal fill ups are in the 32 to 34 gallon range. I have run this set up 8 years and if there us any difference in how it runs with a full or near empty tank, it must be subtle because I cant tell a difference.

[Mopar1973Man]

On 8/22/2018 at 8:17 AM, LegendaryKing said:

 

Got any information on fuel heating?

 

Think about it the head is heated to 190*F with coolant temperature. Now all the fuel bleed back out of the return ports on the injectors are running along the head to the rear of the engine being heated by 190*F temperature head. Then dump in the return line headed for the fuel tank. Now everyone went to returning fuel to the fuel basket. Now your dumping this heated fuel to the sender basket is its the first thing picked up from the basket is this superheated fuel. 

 

Now like my setup for long ago 13 year old first generation draw straw I keep fuel temps way lower being my return fuel is way away from the draw straw. No sump, no drawing from a basket, etc.

 

 

 

[LegendaryKing]

3 hours ago, Mopar1973Man said:

 

Think about it the head is heated to 190*F with coolant temperature. Now all the fuel bleed back out of the return ports on the injectors are running along the head to the rear of the engine being heated by 190*F temperature head. Then dump in the return line headed for the fuel tank. Now everyone went to returning fuel to the fuel basket. Now your dumping this heated fuel to the sender basket is its the first thing picked up from the basket is this superheated fuel. 

 

Now like my setup for long ago 13 year old first generation draw straw I keep fuel temps way lower being my return fuel is way away from the draw straw. No sump, no drawing from a basket, etc.

 

 

Thanks for the pics.

 

How much fuel gets sent to the return?

What is the temp of the fuel being dumped by the return?

What is the temp where diesel fuel is no longer safe?

[Mopar1973Man]

5 hours ago, LegendaryKing said:

How much fuel gets sent to the return?

What is the temp of the fuel being dumped by the return?

What is the temp where diesel fuel is no longer safe?

 

What is returned to the tank. 

 

What the temperature at least from the VP44. Remember the head is going to be 190-200*F. Take notice to the IAT and fuel temp they typically run close to each other all the time. 

 

Make it interesting today... Ran it to the point of seeing the low fuel light and 1/8 of tank.

Edited August 24, 2018 by Mopar1973Man

[dripley]

36 minutes ago, Mopar1973Man said:

Make it interesting today... Ran it to the point of seeing the low fuel light and 1/8 of tank

Living a little dangerous there are you? I see mine any time I make long trips. that is usually where I start looking to fill mine. Now that I am out of Maryland I am getting by on maybe 400 a week instead of 1k. I am slowing down come a catch me.

 

Do you reckon there is much temp loss on the way to the tank? Has to be some but I guess it would be minimal.

Edited August 25, 2018 by dripley

[Mopar1973Man]

After loading with fuel 26 gallons the fuel temp dropped to 110F and slowly worked its way back up to close to IAT temp. I do know a secret to that... 

[dripley]

1 minute ago, Mopar1973Man said:

After loading with fuel 26 gallons the fuel temp dropped to 110F and slowly worked its way back up to close to IAT temp. I do know a secret to that... 

By all means lets share. The teacher says it is time to share.

[Mopar1973Man]

If you look at your IAT sensor. Now just forward of it is a 1/2 NPT pipe plug in the block. That is a coolant passage. The intake manifold is heated with coolant and that heat is conducted into the stock filter housing. This was designed to reduce the time on the electric fuel heater. Once the coolant temp came up it would aid in fuel temps in the winter. Hence way the IAT and fuel temp run close together.

If you really wanted to cool things down I'm going to bet a 180F thermostat would do the trick. I might just experiment with that.

[dripley]

Well the teacher says Mike gets to go first in the cafeteria line today. All kidding aside thanks for the info on the fuel temp. 

 

What is to hot a fuel temp to send to the VP? I have wondered about especially since all my return fuel goes to the basket. I have thought about going back in and putting one of the returns outside the basket. I figure the truck likes it in the winter time though.

 

How does the fuel temp compare to the IAT in the winter?

[Mopar1973Man]

Lets say it really rare for anyone to trip the P0168 code for high fuel temp. I can't remember the temp that trips the code. Lets say the highest I've seen is right at 140F. Winter time ill have to watch and see.

[trreed]

I think the high temp code trips at something ridicously high like around 200*. Highest fuel temps I’ve seen are 163* towing a loaded gooseneck horsetrailer at 80 mph for hours 

Edited August 25, 2018 by trreed

[Mopar1973Man]

Heck I've never gotten that high yet even idling in parking lot for 3 hours with 110F outside temps. No airflow around the fuel tank.

[Dieselfuture]

2 hours ago, dripley said:

I have thought about going back in and putting one of the returns outside the basket.

I don't think you should mess with it, it worked for that long already. If hot fuel would damage vp it would of done it by now. That's just my opinion and as low you let your fuel level get, you'd think something would of happened, how many miles do you have on vp. 

[dripley]

9 hours ago, Dieselfuture said:

I don't think you should mess with it, it worked for that long already. If hot fuel would damage vp it would of done it by now. That's just my opinion and as low you let your fuel level get, you'd think something would of happened, how many miles do you have on vp. 

235k. Trust me, just to experiment, not a chance. Just a thought I had. I got bigger fish to fry than working on something that appears to be working fine.

[CUMMINSDIESELPWR]

one could buy a cooling radiator for a pc, refit it for the low pressure side of fuel return under the cab and put 3 waterproof 120mm fans full blast and you will have cool return fuel to the tank.  wouldnt cost you more than $175

 

just put it on a ambient temp switch, anything over say, 60F and it stays on, anything below it shuts off (for cold weather heating of fuel)

 

radiator

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA9F94ZW4269

 

waterproof fan x3

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA6255JC0134&cm_re=waterproof_120mm_fan-_-9SIA6255JC0134-_-Product

Edited August 25, 2018 by CUMMINSDIESELPWR

[Silverdodge]

In the return side of this conversation I'm sumped near basket factory return is still plumbed in to basket airdog return goes in to a stand pipe 8 inches long in sump suction is in bottom so 9.75 ish inches away from fuel return my sumps about 2 inches thick 

[LegendaryKing]

5 hours ago, Silverdodge said:

In the return side of this conversation I'm sumped near basket factory return is still plumbed in to basket airdog return goes in to a stand pipe 8 inches long in sump suction is in bottom so 9.75 ish inches away from fuel return my sumps about 2 inches thick 

 

That's the sump I'm running.