Budget build, need advice

[BFH_Metalworks]

Looking for suggestions. Lots of info here, but hard to find a specific good parts combo for a relatively minor build.  My daily driver 2wd 5spd would be a lot more fun with a bit more power. I'm thinking 100hp over stock. Just installed a Valair 13" clutch. Have a wastegate actuator regulator that just showed up in the mail. Truck has a 4" exhaust, gauges,  Smarty S04, an air dog factory replacement lift pump (100 gph) mounted to the frame by the tank. Was given a K&N cold air intake but not yet  installed.  Any thoughts on the least expensive way to reach my power goal? 600 hp would be great, but my budget is very limited at the moment and it is my daily driver. 17.8 1/4 mile times are down right embarrassing. Just looking to spice up my daily commute. If there's an article that covers this, I didn't see it. I have done some research, but most of what I've seen is aimed at heavy towing or all out power.  Thanks in advance. 

[trreed]

Replacing the smarty with a Quadzilla Adrenaline will get you exactly what you're looking for.  Adding in the wiretap will help tremendously.

[Mopar1973Man]

Don't install the K&N. Get BHAF.

 

Optimal IAT temp is 90F to 140F. Cold air will degrade MPG below 80F.

 

Quadzilla will get you the ballpark pretty quick. I'm in the 500 HP range now. (7 x 0.010 @ 320 bar).

 

[Me78569]

600 hp vp is not a budget build

 

7 x ..010 injectors and a quad will get you to 500 if you have the right turbo.

[BFH_Metalworks]

Thanks guys! Yeah, the K&N is pretty crusty, I could always clean it up and Ebay it. A friend gave it to me when he upgraded. I'd be happy if I could get just close to 400 HP. Any chance of doing that with the Smarty? Didn't know any better when I bought it or would have got the Quadzilla instead. The Smarty  does make a notable increase in power. Should have ponied up a little more cash and got the 150 gph lift pump, live and learn I guess. I live in Texas, so keeping the IAT in the 90 to 140F range is cake. Would an adjustable wastegate and injectors get me past 350 HP with the Smarty or should I save my pennies until I can bank a Quadzilla? Would prefer to keep the smoke to a minimum as well, though I know the Smarty runs dirty.

[Mopar1973Man]

Quadzilla much better tuner over a Smarty better timing control and fuel management. As injectors get larger more timing us needed. Just the Quadzilla, boost elbow, and stock injectors will be darn close to 300 realm. Based on tires and wheels. Larger tire trap power hence why I went to 30 inch tires.

 

150 GPH pump is needed for big power fuel pressure stability.

Edited March 28, 2019 by Mopar1973Man

[Me78569]

The smarty is a smokey and limited tuner.    It does not support your goals at all.  

 

the butt dyno says it adds a bunch of power, but it doesn't really on a vp truck. The quadzilla will do 2-3x the power with less smoke.  

[BFH_Metalworks]

Well hell, not what I was hoping to hear but my own fault for not doing more research before spending any money. I appreciate y'all taking the time to point me in the right direction. Guess I'll have to start saving those pennies. Any thoughts on Fuel Labs brushless motor lift pump? In theory it should outlast most other electric lift pumps. I plan on driving this truck pretty much forever, so if I have to buy another lift pump I want to get a few years out of it. Mopar Man, whose injectors are you running, I haven't run across any that advertise pop off pressure? 

Edited March 29, 2019 by BFH_Metalworks
Had another question.

[Me78569]

dont mess with pop pressure unless you want to R&D it.  Stock spec 7 x .010's will work great

[BFH_Metalworks]

1 minute ago, Me78569 said:

dont mess with pop pressure unless you want to R&D it.  Stock spec 7 x .010's will work great

 Gotcha! Thanks. 

[Dieselfuture]

Sell smarty, get a quad, 7x10 vco 320 bar from Dap ( if you want certain Pop pressure you have to tell them in advance) I did this more for longevity of injector, because pop pressure settle somewhat fast from what we're figureing out. Guessing in few months it will be around 310 and that's within Bosch's spec. Then get s362 and better lift pump with upgraded fuel lines to keep up with the flow, probably head studs be a good idea. Other than that, twins would be my next step. 

If you cut corners to get more horsepower you just pay for it in the long run. To do it right and have something dependable, always takes time and money, at least it's been this way for me.

[Mopar1973Man]

9 hours ago, BFH_Metalworks said:

Well hell, not what I was hoping to hear but my own fault for not doing more research before spending any money. I appreciate y'all taking the time to point me in the right direction.

 

Ok, being I support Smarty as well I've got to be honest and show the numbers. Now Smarty Touch and the Smart S-03 for the 24v are still only a +60HP tuner. The only Smarty tuner that can meet Quadzilla at tuneability is the Smarty Touch (or Smarty MM3) but the price on the Touch or MM3 is $1,724.00 for the complete kit getting Touch, Pyrometer probe, Dongle to unlock the software (UDC Pro software), ComMod to allow on the fly adjustments (like the Quadzilla). Now compare to Quadzilla at $675.00 it's a +180HP tuner and that covers everything you need. Pyrometer comes with the kit where Smarty Pyro is an extra cost. 

 

10 hours ago, BFH_Metalworks said:

Mopar Man, whose injectors are you running, I haven't run across any that advertise pop off pressure?

 

Custom made DAP injectors. DAP 7x0.010 injector nozzles on my stock OEM bodies. I requested 320 bar for pop pressure typically the 7 x0.010 are set for 305 bar. Keep in mind the bottom limit is 293 bar and the injector pop pressure is TOO LOW. Yeah, it does allow more fuel flow but the automation efficiency is lost. Then longevity is lost too because the injector will settle out about 10 bar in the first 10k to 20m miles. The extra pressure give more mileage to the longevity and efficiency like my 7 x 0.0085 injectors @ 305 bar didn't even make a full 100k miles around 70k miles and the MPG fell off. Keep in mind stock pop pressure is 310 bar. 

[BFH_Metalworks]

I avoid cheap parts, but there's a difference (sometimes) between cheap and inexpensive. The Smarty wasn't cheap, it just isn't ideal. I bought a quality lift pump (best I could afford at the time), AirDog FRRP-100. In hindsight I should have got the 150. I have it mounted to the frame rail right next to the fuel tank and 1/2" line all the way up to the factory fuel filter. Have a pyrometer and fuel pressure gauge. Running 18 psi at idle, never gets below 12. 4" turbo back exhaust. Valair 13" clutch conversion. I just don't have the means to make multiple upgrades at once. Still running the original injectors, so I'm sure they aren't in stellar condition. Would the 7 x 10 injectors work well with my current setup? Obviously I won't get the full benefit of the upgrade. Turbo upgrade is not going to happen anytime soon. Quadzilla is probably my goal for next year.  Thoughts,  suggestions? Appreciate the advice already given. 

[Mopar1973Man]

1 hour ago, BFH_Metalworks said:

Would the 7 x 10 injectors work well with my current setup?

 

7 x 0.010 might overwhelm the AirDog 100. Being you get 6 PSI drop on stock injectors. The drop will just get worse with a 7 x 0.010 injectors.

 

As for the 7 x 0.010 will end up being too smokey on a Smarty S-03 since you can't control the timing properly. Yeah, I know got setting for Mild to Wild on timing. Still doesn't allow you to adjust the way you need.

 

Now the Quadzilla you have that control of the timing and set up fairly easy. Now with bumping the pop pressure up, I'm finding that you got to retard slightly Because the flow rate is down but the atomization is up and ignites easier.

[Dieselfuture]

1 hour ago, Mopar1973Man said:

7 x 0.010 might overwhelm the AirDog 100. Being you get 6 PSI drop on stock injectors. The drop will just get worse with a 7 x 0.010 injectors.

I agree,  but... if he only did 1/2" from pump to stock fuel filter, he's choking the flow everywhere else. If it's 1/2" all throughout psi swing will be much less. Gmo

[Mopar1973Man]

4 minutes ago, Dieselfuture said:

I agree,  but... if he only did 1/2" from pump to stock fuel filter, he's choking the flow everywhere else. If it's 1/2" all throughout psi swing will be much less. Gmo

Agreed the 1/2 inch has to start at the fuel tank and finish at the VP44 while keeping the stock fuel filter can.

[BFH_Metalworks]

Replacing the last of the original fuel lines with 1/2" is totally doable. I ran hard line along the frame rail and have plenty left over. Just a few fittings and a couple feet of AN hose, I can do. Guess I know what's next on the list after I fix the air conditioning. Fortunately the compressor didn't fail, just have some leaky seals to replace. Thanks again for all the advice. I've got a plan of attack now. Truck runs like a champ and gets 20 mpg so injectors can wait a while longer. I'll finish upgrading the fuel lines and  then see what the pressure drop is before I buy any injectors. She may have to settle for RV injectors until my finances are in better shape. I really enjoy my truck with the power it has now so I can wait until I can make the proper combination of parts happen. 

[Me78569]

If you are happy now then just leave it until you are ready to make the next jump.   Injectors and quadzilla should go together.

 

The stock injectors and s03 are fine together, but once you need to control fueling the s03 reaches it's limit

 

After injectors and quadzilla then look at turbos.  

[Stormin08]

the digital boards of the fuel labs pumps dont play well with our ecm signal.

 

search around for forum posts by @CUMMINSDOG , he has a write up as to why.

[JAG1]

Don't be tempted to save money and try the K&N filter as it usually allows fine dust into the intake. The more times they are cleaned the worse they get is the word out there.