in-tank lift pump

[matthew gilland]

Hello,

My truck is a late 1999 Dodge Ram 2500 Cummins 24 valve with 250xxx. I live in the middle of Minnesota. Just to make everyone aware.

I have had an issue with the truck since ownership, that every year my fuel gells up at least once. Last year was the worst, I think like 3 times. Had to use a nip cone and a bunch of cardboard to get the fuel thawed enough to start. I use diesel fuel additives year round (white and gray bottles), and generally more in the winter, including walmart brand 2 stroke oil TCW3 year round.

I have the Fass DDRP with relocation kit on the frame just in front of the tank, with the Beans Diesel sump kit, yes I put a nice hole under the sending unit, that way I can pull and push the fuel to filter assembly. Wanted to do the draw straw but that involved removing the bed. My fuel filter assembly is not the 2001 style, though I do have a 2001 fuel filter assembly that needs to be installed. I think my fuel filter heater is junk on the original one. Back to the question at hand. I want to go to using an in-tank lift pump for winter months. I am not sure if I have an in-tank lift pump from factory, I did unhook a wire from the connector on top of the sending unit but I am not sure if that was just because factory used one style of wire harness. 

 

Does anyone know if there is a good aftermarket sending unit lift pump assembly from a reputable manufacturer? I believe that in-tank lift pumps are better for winter use as it pushes fuel. I was about to have a 750 watt circulation block heater added to my sump to keep my fuel heated in the winter but if the fuel gells then it won't work... 

Also, I get 12-14 mpg, constantly year round. I do have an Edge Comp 4x2 settings. 

 

Any help would be nice.

Thanks!

 

[dripley]

Dont know of good intank pump. They did not come factory with them. I had one from dodge but that was there after market solution for the crappy oe pump.

Where are  from? Temps in your area?

 

Your mileage does seem to off. I tun a Comp also and get 19 to 20 on the highway and 14 around town.

 

[Irie808]

Just joined the community today. Just replaced my in-tank fuel pump yesterday.

Not sure if this helps but here goes some info from my job.

Wanting to give my old 1999 24v some love I got a fuel PSI gauge, turns out at idle its at 4 PSI !! (not good)

My truck apparently was apparently converted to in-tank lift pump some time ago so i opted for a direct replacement.

I decided on Spectra Premium SP7036M lift pump. ( I liked their website and being able to find specs on part etc)

It claims 21-36 PSI and 65-80 GPH

Truck now runs at 24PSI at idle and 15 or so opened up! I am happy with that.

The old pump basket and screen filters were so full of rust it looked like a beach in there!!

I opted to drop the tank down and not remove the bed, not sure which would be easier. I was able to do it on my own.

Just be careful of the pump hoses and electrical when lowering it, try disconnect them before dropping tank much at all.

 

 

 

[wil440]

20 hours ago, matthew gilland said:

every year my fuel gells up at least once

I take it thats in the winter..... what temps ??  if you are using fuel additives in the recommended quantities for the temps then have you checked for water in fuel, is the gel dark slime that sort of doesn't mix with the fuel, if so it's water, the fuel system gets bacteria which makes the gel, this will block any filter even in the summer never mind winter, if you do see any anywhere spray it with brake cleaner, if it freezes it's water and needs to be removed

[MyOle2500]

Irie808, are you running a big line 1/2” kit or stock fuel lines?  Any issues from 24 psi?

[matthew gilland]

@dripley I am from the middle of Minnesota. Winter good days without wind -30*F with wind -40*F, summer 100*F.

 

@Irie808 I got to remove my box anyways to get the new one painted and put in place. Would like to put an intank lift pump in before I install the new bed. I do not see the link you were talking about and where you got it.

I got a response from Fleece performance and they will be coming out with an intank lift pump sending unit soon, but it might be around the $699 which is quite high!!

 

@wil440 it gets cold here in Minnesota, -30*F no wind and -40*F or colder with wind. And no slime or bacteria build up in the tank. When I drilled the 3 inch hole under my sending unit I stuck my hand inside and it was free of slime. I also get fuel from a truck stop all the time and add additives. I think I am not adding the correct amount of additives and not enough #1 in the winter. My current fuel pressure gauge is a glowshift and well it is taking a dump so I need a new one. 

 

@MyOle2500 I run 1/2 inch lines from my sump to lift pump on frame just in front of the tank and then to the fuel filter assembly on engine block. Before my fuel pressure gauge started going bonkers I usually got 18psi and didn't go lower than 10psi, now the sensor is being erratic and yeah needs replacement... 

 

 

So I am thinking of running both my current lift pump and an intank lift pump sending unit using 1/2 inch fuel line for the maximum amount of flow, will this be bad? I think summer will not be an issue, winter might... The only thing I can think of being bad is that the sending unit is directly on top of the sump and in the winter maybe the one might suck more than the rest and cause issues if the fuel gelled a little? What is your input on that? 

[Irie808]

MyOle I actually got a 3/8 kit from filter to pump mainly to mount the fuel pressure unit after the filter, didnt seem that much bigger really. No issues that i know of running 24psi, seems like its settling in at 22-23psi range now.

 

Matthew I actually got it on amazon for about $154, found it initially on rockauto but i think they dont usps any more.

https://www.amazon.com/Spectra-Premium-SP7036M-Fuel-Assembly/dp/B007RW1K1W

Nothing special but it beat the old POS i had in there for sure!

Thinking you would need to have supply and return lines plus the electrical connections there for the pump, i think i read there is a modle number that was used for a conversion to in-tank pump, not sure whats involved as i already had one

Matt, how do you do that linking our names when you replied to us? liking it

I'm thinking getting inside your tank and seeing what it looks like would be a good idea for you, probably needs a good wipe inside

[dripley]

My experience with Dodge in tank was very poor. Very low pressure after a years use, about 25k miles. I did mount a booster pump on the frame and ran the two for 3 or 4 years before replacing it all with an Air dog. Even though dropping tank is not a major ordeal, I did not relish the idea of having to do that any time I might have a pump problem.

[01cummins4ever]

17 hours ago, matthew gilland said:

 

 

 

So I am thinking of running both my current lift pump and an intank lift pump sending unit using 1/2 inch fuel line for the maximum amount of flow, will this be bad? I think summer will not be an issue, winter might... The only thing I can think of being bad is that the sending unit is directly on top of the sump and in the winter maybe the one might suck more than the rest and cause issues if the fuel gelled a little? What is your input on that? 

I think with a set up like that your going to have problems, probably a lot of cavitation.

 

I would not have s problem with an in tank pump if someone could manufacture one that was reliable and had good volume and pressure but that remains d to be seen. Then you could just ditch the frame mount pump and sump. Then you would have to replace your tank anyway. The sump could be a source of gelling since it hangs down low and closer to the elements.

 

The fuel filter is a probable cause of gelling, without the heater mine will start to gel at about negative 15.

[dripley]

I wondered the same when put 2 on mine, but I never had any trouble out of it for 3 years I ran it like that. Just wanted the pump out of the tank.

[wil440]

19 hours ago, matthew gilland said:

@wil440 it gets cold here in Minnesota, -30*F no wind and -40*F or colder with wind. And no slime or bacteria build up in the tank. When I drilled the 3 inch hole under my sending unit I stuck my hand inside and it was free of slime. I also get fuel from a truck stop all the time and add additives. I think I am not adding the correct amount of additives and not enough #1 in the winter. My current fuel pressure gauge is a glowshift and well it is taking a dump so I need a new one. 

I learned something today  -40f is - 40c  hows that work or thats what the converters say, IF the UK ever saw -40c every single living thing would be dead.... people... animals the whole lot, -18c/-20c in Scotland is about max

[Evan]

The in tank pump was a retrofit by the dealer.  Get it out asap 

[Irie808]

I've had the truck since 111k miles and at 194k now when i changed that lift pump. Who knows when that in tank pump was installed!? I'm guessing long ago, it shows the pump lasted long time even though it was worthless when removed. I'll guess 15 years in service.

Why is it not good if it provides the PSI and flow to pump? Happy to report back on my PSI going forward

 

 

[dripley]

5 hours ago, Irie808 said:

I've had the truck since 111k miles and at 194k now when i changed that lift pump. Who knows when that in tank pump was installed!? I'm guessing long ago, it shows the pump lasted long time even though it was worthless when removed. I'll guess 15 years in service.

Why is it not good if it provides the PSI and flow to pump? Happy to report back on my PSI going forward

 

 

I got mine a 150k. Started having trouble about a year, maybe 20k, later. Had about 5 psi at idle and 0 at wot. They dont have great history in the second gens. But if you have one the makes good pressure and flows good, run it. Just keep a real close eye on it.

[Evan]

My in tank pump idled at 4psi pulled down to zero while driving then gauge imploded

[Irie808]

Glad the gauge i just bought didn't implode but yea i had same readings 4psi idle and 0 at little throttle.

I could take a picture of the rust enveloped lift pump but i am kinda embarrassed. Jk

I should to show wtf is in tanks...tomorrow

[Evan]

The gauge imploding was a slight exaggeration ;)

I freaked out when it idled at 4 that was just after doing a injection pump.

 

I'm on about 15 years now. Truck is on its second injection.  I know my injection pump could go at anytime I feel it's done its job, time flies. I highly doubt the injection would have survived this long without the fuel system and never seeing less than 15lbs

Edited August 5, 2019 by Evan

[matthew gilland]

@Irie808 thanks! I will see if that will work for me. I seen there is a retrofit kit to change it to 1/2 inch lines, can't remember where. 

 

Everyone else, thanks for your input! I am still working on the issue, learning as I go.

[Irie808]

I think getting inside your tank and giving it a good cleaning will make your truck very happy in general. I would like to know what you find in there. I have no experience with the cold where I live but was thinking you could get creative with some forms of insulation for the fuel lines or even around the tank. I hope you can just drop in the new pump and all the connections are right there.

Good luck buddy, let us know how it goes.

[Mopar1973Man]

I've got a tidbit to toss in here... I made a few phone calls and found out from Eric at Vulcan Performance that the 2010+ intank lift pumps are actually pretty good pumps now. For stockish truck you could use one possibly. He explained you would have to modify the lift pump module so it would fit the tank. Ive got a friend in Ontario that is willing to be the test dummy for this and will be soon retrofitting this 2010+ pump in his 2002 Dodge truck.