24 valve reman pump issues

[Cumminsguy5.9]

What’s going on guys? So as per my last topic the vp44 was my issue for whatever reason my edge wasn’t allowing my ecu to throw any dtc after figuring that out I found the p1628 or whatever the vp death code is can’t remember off the top of my head. Alright, replaced the pump with a reman vp44 from xdp and new fuel filters. Got the truck primed and she took off. Ran for about a day or so and then boom no fuel to the injectors again. Even though I do not like doing it I tried anyways I gave it a breath of ether and cracked the injector lines and still no fuel. Okay fine play hard.  Towed the truck home and figured I’d call xdp and ask for my warranty (mind you this pump is only 2 days running on this truck give or take a half day and no I left my wire tap off for this very reason just incase). Anyways talked to xdp and gave them my new code it was throwing which is p0252 fuel metering control valve if I’m not mistaken. (Bad pump?) No to them that means dirt in the pump so I pulled my line into the pump and ran it for I don’t know 10-15 seconds into a 5 gallon bucket and found no dirt. Pulled filters and there was some dirt not much to make me worry though       . Maybe I am mistaken but to me that means that 1 filters are working and 2 there probably isn’t dirt in the pump it’s self. Xdp wants to play games and I’m pretty irritated I want to make sure that I’m not in the wrong here guys. P.s. they want me to send the pump out pay shipping to send it to a testing shop and they are two weeks out and if I need a new pump xdp is also two weeks out.
 

 

 -kindest regards Eric

[Me78569]

You got a bum pump from xdp.  

 

Did you buy with a CC? hopefully, if they want to play games then let the CC company handle them.

[Cumminsguy5.9]

11 hours ago, Me78569 said:

You got a bum pump from xdp.  

 

Did you buy with a CC? hopefully, if they want to play games then let the CC company handle them.

Is the p0252 another vp death code? I haven’t been able to find out much info on it. They all say the same thing fuel metering control valve. Yeah I did pay with a cc I’m just kinda upset that they want to play games like the pump wasn’t even a week old and xdp is blaming a “REMAN” injection failure on me. I understand I don’t know much about these trucks but I’ll be dammed if I get ripped off. 

Edited October 25, 2020 by Cumminsguy5.9

[Me78569]

 

 

Not much else it could be

[Tractorman]

(Fuel injection pump fuel valve circuit is monitored after current feedback monitoring is complete and average engine speed is greater than 700 RPM. DTC may be stored when Engine Control Module (ECM) does not receive a signal from the solenoid valve to indicate valve movement.)

 

Is it possible  there could be a wiring problem (broken wire, bad connection) in this circuit between the injection pump and the ECM?  I have no experience with this particular problem,  I am only asking this question based on the ECM's decision to set this code.

 

- John

[LorenS]

Seems logical to me, that's a good question Tractorman.

[Me78569]

The vp has incoming and out going messaging on the can system.  The pump will see how much fuel and timing is being commanded from the ecm and report back to the ecm what it actually did.   

 

My guess is with a 252 the pump is pretty much telling the ecm " I can't do that"  similar to the p0216 code for timing.   If any communication to the pump is working then it wouldn't be a wiring issue outside of the pump.

[Cumminsguy5.9]

21 hours ago, Tractorman said:

(Fuel injection pump fuel valve circuit is monitored after current feedback monitoring is complete and average engine speed is greater than 700 RPM. DTC may be stored when Engine Control Module (ECM) does not receive a signal from the solenoid valve to indicate valve movement.)

 

Is it possible  there could be a wiring problem (broken wire, bad connection) in this circuit between the injection pump and the ECM?  I have no experience with this particular problem,  I am only asking this question based on the ECM's decision to set this code.

 

- John

Pretty sure about the wiring John I do appreciate the advice though. The wiring is good I cleaned the terminals and put some dielectric grease just to be sure. 

[Mopar1973Man]

Metering solenoid is physically on the injection pump in the middle of the distributor. Those two wires go back to the PSG on top of the VP44. This means there is a wiring or circuit problem between the PSG on the VP44 and the fuel solenoid in the middle of the distributor. The PSG senses this issue and returns the code P0252 back to the ECM to report for OBDII purpose. 

 

So yes the pump is dead... This is why I tell people to know where there pumps are being rebuilt. So where does XDP get there pumps from? Are they rebuilt by a Bosch Certified shop? If it is rebuilt properly that pump has to run on Bosch 815 test stand for 3 hours to verify and the flash the PSG with all the settings after the 3 hours of testing and calibrating. Non-Bosch rebuilder have been known to reused PSG's and not bench test at all...

Edited October 26, 2020 by Mopar1973Man

[LorenS]

8 minutes ago, Mopar1973Man said:

Non-Bosch rebuilder have been known to reused PSG's and not bench test at all...

Good information to have.

[Tractorman]

3 hours ago, Me78569 said:

My guess is with a 252 the pump is pretty much telling the ecm " I can't do that"  similar to the p0216 code for timing.   If any communication to the pump is working then it wouldn't be a wiring issue outside of the pump.

 

@Me78569, thanks for that clarification - that does make sense.  @Cumminsguy5.9, sorry about leading you in a non productive direction.

 

- John

[Cumminsguy5.9]

1 hour ago, Tractorman said:

 

@Me78569, thanks for that clarification - that does make sense.  @Cumminsguy5.9, sorry about leading you in a non productive direction.

 

- John

I don’t consider any thing as non productive. You ask me something that I should have put in my original post. I do appreciate all the help you guys have given me on this. As far as xdp goes when I approached them about the pump as far as who rebuilt it and where it was tested was inconclusive they didn’t want to give me an answer. I’m just going to send it back for warranty, wait for my money back and buy another from somewhere else. Do you guys have any reputable sources I tried looking for the list @moparman1973 had posted awhile ago but I can’t seem to find it. 

1 hour ago, Tractorman said:

[IBMobile]

42 minutes ago, Cumminsguy5.9 said:

Do you guys have any reputable sources

 Diesel Auto Power

https://www.dieselautopower.com/dodge-ram-cummins/1998-5-2002-5-9l-24-valve-dodge-cummins/1998-5-2002cummins-fueling-and-injection/1998-5-2002cummins-fuel-injection-pumps

[Great work!]

The signal it's looking for is a small current blip in the injection solenoid's current when the plunger moves. A solenoid has a 'dead time' from when the current is first switched on until the plunger starts to move, it can vary between different solenoids and the battery voltage along with temperature. The psig looks for the blip to determine the dead time ( in microseconds) so it can turn on the solenoid early enough so that the plunger - valve will be closed at exactly the right moment to give the most precise fuel duration and timing. Without the signal it can still run by using the last known good value in microseconds or a default value from a table. See the attached figure 1. I put it together from what I have observed with test equipment and studying the pump tone ring and cam doughnut. So yes the module on the pump or the solenoid and it's wires have a problem. The plunger - valve is still moving though or else the engine wont run.

VPwave1.pdf

[Cumminsguy5.9]

Alright, for anyone still following this thread heres an update. Took the truck to a local shop and had them do all the work i needed ( started a job working third shift makes it hard to work on things when its decent out) They threw on a new pump and sent me on my way. paid an arm and a leg ( i had them take care of some other issues as well). so thats the good side of things. its now close to the end of feburary and xdp still has yet to get me a refund on my bad pump i bought through them. they now have the pump i bought and my old pump. highly irritating knowing i have a $1500 set of pumps waiting to be tested and an answer. now they are saying that they dont have warranty paperwork from me or the shop both the shop and i have email proof that warranty paperwork was sent in. DO NOT I REPEAT DO NOT BUY FROM XTREME DIESEL PERFORMANCE they will screw you any way possible it seems

[JAG1]

I am very glad you told us about this as I know it will help others to always ask where the rebuilt injection pump comes from before you pay. If they do not want to tell you then they don't need your business and you should not give it to them because you need to know what kind of treatment you are going to be getting if there is a problem.

 

It is very odd that they want to hide who the rebuilder was and even more odd since a reputable Bosch rebuilder would take responsibility for the problem and would sincerely WANT the pump back to know where they went wrong to STOP any further mistakes from being shipped out. They would and should be be glad to pay the shipping and take care of you as priority above anything else on their plate. That's the definition of a real company.

 

I would tell XDP that they misrepresented in their presentation and sale of the rebuilt pump to you, that it is not from an approved Bosch rebuilder (reason why they don't reveal who and why no real guarantee) and therefore is possible the judge would see fraudulent practice. You are eligible to receive punitive damages in a case like this...... covering more than all time loss and expenses etc. I would have my attorney send a letter to them basically saying this and if they do not respond, by sending an amount based on what it cost you, what is fair, that you are going to the courthouse and start a file with the court clerk. You can do that yourself they are very helpful down there to make sure you file correctly. I saved 1300 bucks spending two hrs doing it myself. It was fun too and learned a lot. 

 

Sorry for the long post.....

Edited February 11, 2021 by JAG1

[hdpwipmonkey]

I have had problems with XDP in the past, not as bad as yours, but enough to turn me off from doing business with them again.

[Cumminsguy5.9]

8 hours ago, JAG1 said:

I am very glad you told us about this as I know it will help others to always ask where the rebuilt injection pump comes from before you pay. If they do not want to tell you then they don't need your business and you should not give it to them because you need to know what kind of treatment you are going to be getting if there is a problem.

 

It is very odd that they want to hide who the rebuilder was and even more odd since a reputable Bosch rebuilder would take responsibility for the problem and would sincerely WANT the pump back to know where they went wrong to STOP any further mistakes from being shipped out. They would and should be be glad to pay the shipping and take care of you as priority above anything else on their plate. That's the definition of a real company.

 

I would tell XDP that they misrepresented in their presentation and sale of the rebuilt pump to you, that it is not from an approved Bosch rebuilder (reason why they don't reveal who and why no real guarantee) and therefore is possible the judge would see fraudulent practice. You are eligible to receive punitive damages in a case like this...... covering more than all time loss and expenses etc. I would have my attorney send a letter to them basically saying this and if they do not respond, by sending an amount based on what it cost you, what is fair, that you are going to the courthouse and start a file with the court clerk. You can do that yourself they are very helpful down there to make sure you file correctly. I saved 1300 bucks spending two hrs doing it myself. It was fun too and learned a lot. 

 

Sorry for the long post.....

Very interesting.... I will have to look into doing this, they have had more than enough time and chances to get this taken care of.

[JAG1]

1 hour ago, Cumminsguy5.9 said:

Very interesting.... I will have to look into doing this, they have had more than enough time and chances to get this taken care of.

When my rv got paid off the bank let a year go buy without sending my title. Despite several phone calls they just weren't going to send it. My attorney sent a letter explaining how we will file at the court for all costs plus a 1,000 dollars for me if they don't send it within a week. Have to say that got their attention as the title was in my mailbox within a few days. Interestingly the bank president signed it off with a huge scribbled signature all across the page.

       The attorney I have now is smarter than anyone I've ever known. He is brilliant with his subtle ways. Just an amazing man for justice.

[Mopar1973Man]

Like the story about the $500 2006 Dodge 3500 I bought the title was here in like less than 7 days. You living in Oregon where the snowflakes want what you have without working for it.