Drawstraw Users - How low can you go?

[Mopar1973Man]

On 2/4/2021 at 7:52 AM, LorenS said:

I know we want to keep the PSG cool, but to a certain degree cold fuel doesn't burn as efficiently.

 

Not true. When diesel fuel cetane is 45 to 50 cetane it will ignite easy with compression. Now take summer fuel attempt that and you might find a different story. Back when I done my last research of fuel blends they were upping the xylene mixture to increase cetane value. 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xylene

 

Xylene reduces the flash point of the fuel so compression pressure with cold air can still reach ignition point. Hence why most every fuel station up here in the north is all running Winterized #2. More you raise the cetane the lower the BTU's are going to get. 

 

Another part why I suggest to never remove the stock filter you gain warm from the manifold for the fuel, then the fuel heater run at any temp below +70*F. Then if you step up to 200*F thermostat you give more warmth (better thermal efficiency) to the cylinder promoting ignition and since the coolant is hotter by 10*F now the manifold will be warmer helping to heat both the fuel and the air. Again way I'm set up my IAT and Fuel Temp are always with +/- 5*F of each other. I use my grill insert to block out the cold wind over the intercooler.

 

Side story I was coming back from Lewiston there was a truck travelling the grade super slow like 45 MPH in a 65MPH waited for my time to pass and when I did I down shifted to 4th too much zeal and would you believe it I stuff the stick in between the shift rails and stuck in 4th gear. So, I ran the tach up to 2,500 RPM holding barely 55 MPH in 4th gear and climb the grade ot the top. By the time I got to the top the coolant was up to 201*F and fan was locking up and I watch both the coolant, IAT and a small fuel temp drop. This example shows that covering the grill allows for unusual issues to be handled. If I was covering the radiator face I would of overheated and been stuck in the middle of the road attempting to repair. Thank Gawd for my set up... I got up top and fix the stick by pulling it up resetting the rails to neutral and drove home.

Edited February 7, 2021 by Mopar1973Man

[Doubletrouble]

 @Mopar1973Man, isn't that the second time now that the shifter got stuck some how?

 What material did you used for your grill inserts? I made some of cardboard last winter but would.like to do something that will last much longer.

[Mopar1973Man]

3 minutes ago, Doubletrouble said:

@Mopar1973Man, isn't that the second time now that the shifter got stuck some how?

 

Correct. It basically I get too much tension on the slide rail fork that I manage to slip between the rail. Just gotta be mellow when shifting. I had to fix a 1992 Dodge Getrag 360 for the same this a couple weeks ago. 

 

5 minutes ago, Doubletrouble said:

What material did you used for your grill inserts?

Old Aluminum road sign. The bowed the piece slightly so the bow up in the middle the using a single bolt in each one I can pull the bow down filling the void. Used nyloc nuts. 

[Doubletrouble]

 I'll have to make some more for my grill. Have to make a good template first. Did the cardboard when it was already cold out so it was not the best but it worked.

Also, do you run the 200° T-stat year round? Is it advisable to do so?  Sure the climate here in the summer may be different from you location. Summer temps sometime tip 100 so not sure if that would be to much or not.

[LorenS]

I ran a 200 thermostat for a year or so (30k miles). The gauge would move on really hot days, and my OBD Bluetooth would show I was around 210. Swapped to 190 and gauge doesn't move. Our temp gauges are more like dummy lights. Swapping thermostats is so easy, I really should make that a task I do every spring and fall.

3 hours ago, Mopar1973Man said:

More you raise the cetane the lower the BTU's are going to get. 

This is if they raise cetane by removing the longer hydrocarbon chains at the refinery. By chemically altering the cetane number (via additive) the fuel energy density doesn't change.

[Dieselfuture]

here's my cover, I welded some v noches in my front bumper so this price of aluminum slides in and then few screwes on top hold it in place.

[Mopar1973Man]

21 hours ago, Doubletrouble said:

Also, do you run the 200° T-stat year round?

 

I've got one here but its not cold enough this year for it. I'm not seen any minus numbers and barely any snow at all here. I typically use the 190*F.

21 hours ago, Doubletrouble said:

Is it advisable to do so?

@pepsi71ocean has been running year round... No issues around New Jersey... The only thing I can say is the thermal efficiency is much better running a 200*F thermostat being most of the expanding heat is converted into work and not absorbed by the cooler coolant jacket. Hence why a lot of gasoline engine started going up in temperature and so did the 6.7L Cummins. Not to mention the 6.7L thermostat does fit our 24V heads. This how you get the 200*F thermostat. I won't suggest this for anyone towing heavy here in the states but up north in Canada and Alaska it would be a good thing. I will say it will keep the cab MUCH MUCH hotter for sure. Fan on lo and temp control way down. 

18 hours ago, LorenS said:

I ran a 200 thermostat for a year or so (30k miles). The gauge would move on really hot days, and my OBD Bluetooth would show I was around 210. Swapped to 190 and gauge doesn't move. Our temp gauges are more like dummy lights. Swapping thermostats is so easy, I really should make that a task I do every spring and fall.

This is if they raise cetane by removing the longer hydrocarbon chains at the refinery. By chemically altering the cetane number (via additive) the fuel energy density doesn't change.

 

Actually my gauge is dead on the money temp wise. 

 

As for cetane part of that is refined... ASTM testing scale. You can look up the fuel specification from the manufacture and plug in the values and see what the actual cetane is. This way my local Cennex Fuel station years ago when I did the study. They listed both the summer fuel and winterized fuel as well. Then I found the 55 barrels that they were adding to the fuel when gelling issues where a problem. 

 

Light green is winter fuel and dark green is summer fuel.

 

[LorenS]

This webpage says the magic temperature for diesel oxidation concern is 66C or ~150F.

https://www.powermag.com/understanding-diesel-fuel-storage-requirements/

I have certainly seen the (asphaltenes?) that Mike mentioned.  Fuel filter COATED with black carbon stuff, and after not many miles.  The DDRP relocated to the frame certainly helped that by opening the overflow valve, but my fuel temps have been high, no doubt.  I should have this fixed by Memorial Day, hopefully long before.

[Mopar1973Man]

Hence why my filter go 60,000 miles with any issues. I rarely ever see fuel temp even near 140*F.

 

@LorenS thanks for posting that temp so now we know 150*F is the point asphaltene start to create. Again I'm not drawing from the fuel basket but from the tank.

[Doubletrouble]

 And for those of use that don't know, what is asphaltine? I'm assuming like a tar substance of some sort? Just getting that from the name.

[LorenS]

Asphaltenes: https://www.fuelox.com/2018/03/07/the-new-fuel-contaminent-asphaltenes/

 

Tar about 2 microns in size.

[Mopar1973Man]

(Gotta say thanks for the other info)

 

Basically the fuel get above 150*F creates asphaltenes that make a material that is like a tar sized at about 2 microns. I'm thankful I use quality filter on the AirDog and the stock filter can. I'm double filtering. Then since I don't return and pump out of the sender basket my fuel stay much cooler. Since I kept the stock filter can I still have my WIF light functional, the electric fuel heater is still working, absorbing heat from the manifold, etc. Being my fuel temp hovers with IAT temperature with (+/- 5*F). My filters go upwards of 60,000 miles. 

 

Back when the truck was stock everything. I had problems with asphaltenes building in the fuel filter. Now with the AirDog 150 flowe enough to keep the over flow valve open and double filtering my VP44 stays cooler than most and double filter protect the internal parts of the pump from wear. Then if you add 2 cycle oil on top you now just gave the VP44 the best chance of living a super long life.

[Doubletrouble]

 Thank you both for the info. My plan is to have a system similar to yours @Mopar1973Man with the exception of the air dog (for now at least). I'll use the fass ddrp that's on the truck now and relocate it. With that set up I won't flow as much volume as with an AD but it will still improve with the increased line size (3/8" compared to stock). Also will be keeping the stock filter for the WIF light and heat aspect.

From my reading/learning so far I think that will work for the injectors I'm planning on in the future ( either +50 or +75hp, haven't completely decided yet).

[Mopar1973Man]

21 minutes ago, Doubletrouble said:

I'm planning on in the future ( either +50 or +75hp, haven't completely decided yet).

 

I would say it depends on the tuner that is going to control the timing and fuel aspect of the injectors. Like my old problem was my Edge Comp only basically stacked on +2 or +3 degrees of timing on top of the stock table for the most part. This is part of the fight of why Economy on the Edge sucked. You had to keep your engine load down by slowing down to get the good numbers. The fuel table was more or less treated the same way. Edge Comp had super poor control of fuel and smoke even with +50HP injectors. 

 

Consider your tuner. Like today I run just about smokeless on my normal level 2 (stock fuel and added timing) or level 3 (CanBus Fuel and timing). I can handle +150 HP injectors no problem towing even is awesome being close to 18,000 pounds and over 60 feet long and no EGT's issues. 

 

ILLEGAL ACTIVITIES 

 

Yesterday I knew that @Wet Vette went to the doctor appointment in McCall. She called and ask if I wanted something before she came home from McCall. I was finishing up down at the other shop (Russ). I packed up myself and ran back up canyon towards New Meadows, Found a nice pull out facing toward home and just waited. Eileen found me and pulled over I told her I wanted to "play" on the way home. Needless to say she snagged lead leaving the pull out and as we broke out of the canyon on the first straight I wound the Cummins up passing her at +90 MPH easy and took the lead from her in her Hyundai Elantra. Then we proceeded as a team to run over 80+ in 65 MPH down the windy canyon towards home. Ran like this for over 7 miles and never missed a beat. Pulling corners marked for 65 MPH at 80+ MPH the whole way back.  Fresh track bar and Blue Top Steering it was running like a slot car. Eileen stayed tuck in at my rear bumper. Both of use had to hit the 100 mark at least once. Even with 30 inch tires ratio (3.69:1) is awesome pulls super strong on the top end. Brought me back to my old street racing dayz once again. I felt like a teenager once again. 

 

Needless to say it was a head rush!!! Both got home smiling...  

Edited February 10, 2021 by Mopar1973Man

[Doubletrouble]

7 minutes ago, Mopar1973Man said:

would say it depends on the tuner that is going to control the timing and fuel aspect of the injectors

 Honestly, at first there most likely won't be a tuner. They're expensive and I don't have that in my budget yet. Would I like one? Yes. But I will have to go in steps. With a hair over 150k on the injectors and the readings from the scanner they need replaced. Don't want to replace with stock just to change them again later. So I was thinking get +50 or +75's and possibly a boost elbow to push some extra air to help with the smoke til I can afford a tuner.

 When it's time for a tuner, I've been thinking about a quad zxt mainly for price point. I know everyone seems to favor the quadzilla but I'll be honest, I'm not sure I'd be comfortable with the technical level of that one. I've read some of the post concerning the quadzilla and some of the jargon is a foreign language to me.

[Mopar1973Man]

Be aware without a tuner the stock ECM is fairly retarded in timing so it does emit more smoke because of this. Then the ECM doesn't know there is a change from Stock to +50 or +75 so the fuel map will be too fat and tends to smoke on launching. Then EGT's will be higher being the retard state of timing. Bigger the injectors the more timing you need to make it efficient. Like I'm running close to 21* @ 2k RPM's. Stock is like 14* @ 2k RPM's.

 

Matter of fact... I've been talking to @dieselautopower (Jacob Kid) and there might be a spot for me as a "tuner tech" for Quadzilla. Still working out how we are going to do this. I've had another vendor ask if I would build tunes for their customers as well. This is still in the "works" right now but soon...

Edited February 10, 2021 by Mopar1973Man

[Doubletrouble]

 I figured it would smoke some without a tuner. The extra boost with the elbow should help some with that I believe. 

 

[LorenS]

With all the tunes available for the XZT, I'm kind of surprised there aren't any for different injectors, at least up to +50 or +75.  It may not be 'perfect' like the Adrenaline can do, but something!

[dieseldon]

2 hours ago, Doubletrouble said:

  I know everyone seems to favor the quadzilla but I'll be honest, I'm not sure I'd be comfortable with the technical level of that one. I've read some of the post concerning the quadzilla and some of the jargon is a foreign language to me.

 

I for one certainly understand that statement!

I'm new to diesel's, new to tuners, I really appreciate the work people like moparman, me78569 are doing for iquad, but for someone like myself, for the most part I don't understand 75% or more of what their saying, really wish there was a iquad school for dummies LOL!

To me it almost seems like when reading the instructions they're talking to professional tuner's? (Moparman, I hope you keep that in mind if you calab with them) my self esteem can only handle so much asking questions and sounding like an idiot.

I just got mine a couple months ago and I really do like it, just wish I understood it better.

Not many custom tunes for stock to +75 injectors available either.

[dripley]

3 hours ago, Doubletrouble said:

 I figured it would smoke some without a tuner. The extra boost with the elbow should help some with that I believe. 

 

I put 50's in mine a while back with the comp. Running about 30 psi of boost and it smoked pretty heavy down low until the turbo caught up with the fuel. Thats where you will see most of your smoke, in the lower rpm's before the turbo spools. Took mine out and went back to RV275's.  Less smoke and but all in the lower rpm's.