Changed turbo and exhaust manifold - now I have white smoke under acceleration

[leety]

2 hours ago, Mopar1973Man said:

You did injectors right?

 

There is air in the system I typically take the truck and go out and do a few WOT runs for short burst to bring the rail pressure up to MAX to push all the air out of the lines. The white smoke is because the timing is retarded. This is due to the fact air is compressible so there is timing lost compressing the air bubble and the firing the injectors. The only way to get rid of that is a few WOT run loaded and it will blow the air out on high loads. If not like in my last go around on 7.3L Ford double check your injector wiring this includes CR engines too. 

 

They will run rough and idle weird and free revving seems weak and lots of smoke. Totally normal. Go drive it and blow the air out typically in the first run she will clear right up. 

I did not do the injectors now.  I did them in Oct 2028.  I only did the turbo and the manifold.

27 minutes ago, JAG1 said:

Yeah Mikey, you better get extra cup 

 

Leety is that a brand new turbo or a rebuild? I'm worried oil may be leaking into the exhaust from the bearing oil causing the white smoke. If oil goes into the intake that could be a very bad deal.

 

Was it idling higher than normal?

The turbo is new.  I just got it from DAP.  It’s an S200GX-E.

I did also change my oil pressure sensor.    I took off the fuel filter and moved it out of the way without disconnecting it.  Could that have introduced air into the system?

53 minutes ago, JAG1 said:

Yeah Mikey, you better get extra cup 

 

Leety is that a brand new turbo or a rebuild? I'm worried oil may be leaking into the exhaust from the bearing oil causing the white smoke. If oil goes into the intake that could be a very bad deal.

 

Was it idling higher than normal?

Idol is normal.

 

Aside from a block test what else should I look for that would rule out anything potentially catastrophic?

[JAG1]

Removing the factory filter mounting would not affect whether or not you got air into the fuel system. I do believe the two bolts holding the filter are also tightening the intake plate on top. Be sure those are tightened the proper amount.

 

If it is a brand new turbo that is a good thing as I have read articles on the need to be wary of who the rebuilder is for turbochargers. That it can be very dangerous if not rebuild correctly. Article also talked about Chinese knock offs that are new, that they can be a problem as well. Leety I'm glad you got it from Dap. I think you need to find out where the turbo is from and who built it, telling them about the problem. I know I could easily be wrong about this as I was hoping MoparMan would mention something about what can happen with a possible air leak taken into the turbo, if that's causing the white smoke. So right now I can only surmise that oil is leaking out of the bearing seal and causing the white smoke. With enough oil leaking it can cause a runaway condition in which the engine cannot be shut down, can over rev and blow the engine. IOW the engine gets fueled by the oil going into the intake. I hope it is something simpler than that though and is not the case.

 

Something this important Mopar1973Man needs to jump in with his expertise here.

[leety]

2 minutes ago, JAG1 said:

Removing the factory filter mounting would not affect whether or not you got air into the fuel system. I do believe the two bolts holding the filter are also tightening the intake plate on top. Be sure those are tightened the proper amount.

 

If it is a brand new turbo that is a good thing as I have read articles on the need to be wary of who the rebuilder is for turbochargers. That it can be very dangerous if not rebuild correctly. Article also talked about Chinese knock offs that are new, that they can be a problem as well. Leety I'm glad you got it from Dap. I think you need to find out where the turbo is from and who built it, telling them about the problem. I know I could easily be wrong about this as I was hoping MoparMan would mention something about what can happen with a possible air leak taken into the turbo, if that's causing the white smoke. So right now I can only surmise that oil is leaking out of the bearing seal and causing the white smoke. With enough oil leaking it can cause a runaway condition in which the engine cannot be shut down, can over rev and blow the engine. IOW the engine gets fueled by the oil going into the intake. I hope it is something simpler than that though and is not the case.

 

Something this important Mopar1973Man needs to jump in with his expertise here.

I had that happen to me on a diesel pathfinder I borrowed in the St. Lucia one time.  I would just have to stall it with the manual transmission, which worked but yea that was scary.  The first time it happened we all got out of the vehicle in a hurray.  Had no idea what was going on or why.  Ah the good old days.  The truck kept doing it and so I just had to turn it off by stalling it with the transmission.

 

I defiantly torqued those bolts on the factory fuel filter.  I can check that again though just to be sure.

[JAG1]

Okay, I'm glad that you experienced that and know about what to do. If the smoke is oil you would have a very strong oil smell in the white smoke and would have a slightly blueish tint to it.

 

I just called MoparMan and we talked about this...... you said you changed injectors a while ago, but the truck sat for two month as well. So I'm thinking Mike Nelson is correct in saying there is air in the fuel from the injector change. That the possibility is that air was slowly leaking into the fuel system from sitting for awhile.

 

Keep us posted, I'm hoping this is a very simple fix for you

[leety]

3 minutes ago, JAG1 said:

Okay, I'm glad that you experienced that and know about what to do. If the smoke is oil you would have a very strong oil smell in the white smoke and would have a slightly blueish tint to it.

 

I just called MoparMan and we talked about this...... you said you changed injectors a while ago, but the truck sat for two month as well. So I'm thinking Mike Nelson is correct in saying there is air in the fuel from the injector change. That the possibility is that air was slowly leaking into the fuel system from sitting for awhile.

 

Keep us posted, I'm hoping this is a very simple fix for you

I just did a video and I'm uploading it to my youtube channel.  I'll share the link in a few.  I'm going to share it with DAP as well.  I smelled it again.  I don't smell the sweet of coolant and I don't smell oil.  I have a feeling I just need to run it but better safe than super sad later.

Video of cold start up

 

 

[AH64ID]

Injectors were changed more than 2 years ago, very very doubtful that this has anything to do with them. 

 

Doesn't look or sound like air in the fuel lines, but also doesn't look like coolant or oil to me. 

 

Truck isn't hot enough to burn oil leaking into the exhaust at idle on a cold start. 

 

Why did it sit for 2 months? Something break, or just waiting on parts?

[leety]

1 minute ago, AH64ID said:

Injectors were changed more than 2 years ago, very very doubtful that this has anything to do with them. 

 

Doesn't look or sound like air in the fuel lines, but also doesn't look like coolant or oil to me. 

 

Truck isn't hot enough to burn oil leaking into the exhaust at idle on a cold start. 

 

Why did it sit for 2 months? Something break, or just waiting on parts?

Waiting on parts and days with no violent winds to put them in.

[Me78569]

I think you it just needs to get up to temp. it looks to me like exhaust from a truck that has sat for awhile.   I don't think it is coolant or oil.

[leety]

Ok the truck has been running for about 30 minutes.  Coolant is at hovering between 1985 & 192 f degrees I have my bluetooth ODB2 reading inside keeping a watch on it..  Sounds fine.  White smoke is about the same as it was on cold start with and without the blipp.  No funky smell. No change in color.

 

The fella at DAP suggested I just let it run for about an hour.  I guess I'll let it keep running awhile, keep a watch on it and see how it goes.

 

Okay after about 45 minutes of running it started running funky and even more smoke.  Kind of loping and even more white smoke.  Then when I gave it some gas it got way worse.  So I shut it off.

 

So now I'm seeing a fuel leak on the driver's side.  Perhaps something came loose when I unbolted the fuel filter and set it aside to replace the oil pressure sensor.

 

Also I see oil dripping out of a connection in my exhaust pipe.

 

Looks like I may have two different issues.  Have to get some work down will have to circle back around to this tomorrow.  

 

Back to the drawing board.

 

Let me know what ya'll think.

Edited December 21, 2020 by leety

[AH64ID]

It didn't sound like it was misfiring, but if you have a fuel leak that could be the culprit. 

 

Are you sure it's oil in the exhaust, and not soot soaked condensation?

 

 

[leety]

1 hour ago, AH64ID said:

It didn't sound like it was misfiring, but if you have a fuel leak that could be the culprit. 

 

Are you sure it's oil in the exhaust, and not soot soaked condensation?

 

 

It wasn't misfiring until about 45 minutes in.  When I shut it off.  Then when I tried running it again it was super bad and the fuel pressure dropped below 15 at idol which it never does.  So yea there's definitely a drippy fuel leak.

 

I'm seeing oil actually dripping from the exhaust pipe joint where the down pipe connects to the run to the back.  

 

 

I moved my pyrometer to my exhaust manifold so I have a plug in my exhaust brake where the pyrometer used to be. 

 

The next thing is to pull that plug and send my video scope in there and see if there's oil in there.  If so the turbo seal failed at the bearing housing I will have to pull the turbo out again and send it back to get resolved.  I'm getting faster and faster at pulling the turbo out each time I do it lol so there is an up side to this. lol

 

New turbo failed!

 

Lost a lot of oil well below the safe line.  

 

 

 

 

Turbo will have to come out and go back.

 

Not too sure I even want this turbo in my truck.  Had I driven it it would have been a catastrophic fail. 

 

 

Edited December 21, 2020 by leety

[AH64ID]

Well I guess that answers that, bummer!!

 

I wonder if the lack of oil smell was due to the colder exhaust and it not burning..... or, are you sure you can smell, it is 2020 after all 

[leety]

1 minute ago, AH64ID said:

Well I guess that answers that, bummer!!

 

I wonder if the lack of oil smell was due to the colder exhaust and it not burning..... or, are you sure you can smell, it is 2020 after all 

I was just starting to smell a different smell in the exhaust as it started running funky.  The smell was just changing as things were heating up so that's a good theory.

 

My sense of smell has been compromised for many years, perhaps it was 3 babies in diapers that did that lol

 

Yea so that's one of my problems the other is a fuel leak which hopefully won't be too much work to fix.

Here are some cool things someone sent me just for the info:

 

[Me78569]

ugh that sucks.   hard to see new parts fail like this.

[dripley]

3 kids in diapers is enough to melt anyones smeller. As I remeber there might have been some white smoke coming out of a couple of mine at the same time.

[leety]

50 minutes ago, Me78569 said:

ugh that sucks.   hard to see new parts fail like this.

I know if I sign up for dealing with any machine I sign up for risks.

 

Like I always tell people, if you don't want car trouble, don't have a car.  Even when they are new they can fail.

 

If you don't want computer troubles, don't have a computer.

 

We get whatever we sign up for, the good, the bad and the ugly.

[JAG1]

That is so bad for a rebuilder or manufacturer not to test the oil seals under normal oil pressure range. Think of the damage and danger to you or anyone else.

 

I wouldn't want one from that builder either. Go good name brand and new, although I got a rebuilt one from Pacific fuel injection that was really good for around 400 bucks 3 years ago. It was a stock turbo for my first gen I had. It ran really nice. 

 

I requested it be a rebuilt Holset that they themselves did the work. That way I knew who to hit with the hammer if not right.

Edited December 22, 2020 by JAG1

[leety]

28 minutes ago, JAG1 said:

That is so bad for a rebuilder or manufacturer not to test the oil seals under normal oil pressure range. Think of the damage and danger to you or anyone else.

 

I wouldn't want one from that builder either. Go good name brand and new, although I got a rebuilt one from Pacific fuel injection that was really good for around 400 bucks 3 years ago. It was a stock turbo for my first gen I had. It ran really nice. 

 

I requested it be a rebuilt Holset that they themselves did the work. That way I knew who to hit with the hammer if not right.

Yes it's worrisome no doubt.  There are lot of fitment issues with the fresh air side. The thing was indexed 180 degrees off which I fixed.  I should have only had to index the fresh air side a bit not 180 degrees. It's a Borg Warner turbo but they added the collar and the part for the exhaust brake.

[wil440]

4 hours ago, leety said:

Yes it's worrisome no doubt.  There are lot of fitment issues with the fresh air side. The thing was indexed 180 degrees off which I fixed.  I should have only had to index the fresh air side a bit not 180 degrees. It's a Borg Warner turbo but they added the collar and the part for the exhaust brake.

It's quite normal for turbos to be off, it would be put together on a jig lt could be the right jig or just a jig to get it together, I'm talking new manufacturer as typical these do not use skilled labour. I used to work for caterpillar and if 2% of the factory was skilled that would be it, old matey wouldn't have a clue why he is clocking a turbo mostly he wouldn't even know what it was in front of him. 

It did stay together correctly when you clocked it? This is more so if circlips hold it together 

[JAG1]

will440, did they place the bearing seals under a pressure test to theses turbos you saw being built? Thank you in advance Bud.

 

BTW, wish I could metal detect your place alone as you probably got history around your place. Ya never know.......