3,000 or 7,500

[volkswagon]

If I err not that's what it is. I'm sure my owners manual says 12000 km. I'd go out and look but it's cold, windy, and snowing right now:rolleyes:

[AH64ID]

Dang a 1/2 micron thats unreal!!!

But there is no published efficiency rating at 1/2 micron. Consider that a screen door will catch 1% of 1/2 micron particles... The Frantz do a very very good job of filtering, there is no doubt. However there is no way I am putting TP into my lube system. A 2um bypass is plenty for me, considering I also have a 15um full flow and the OE system is 25um (all absolute ratings).

[DieselD24]

Yeah, I don't know if i would trust toilet paper as a filtering medium. With all that dust and stuff it leaves, I don't know about that...

[ISX]

I think there is a very important factor everyone is overlooking, and that is service factor. I drive 45mph down the highway every day and hardly load the engine, it therefore sees no real work so there is no real friction between components and therefore not as much wear. As load increases, so does friction and wear, that wear ends up in the oil. Now there is also the start/stop frequency. When you start it, the engine is inefficient at first and probably dilutes the oil with fuel. Not only that, starting is when you get the most wear on the engine, which again, ends up in the oil. Driving technique also effects it. City driving causes more wear from all the revving you have to do and the combustion temps drop at stoplights, sometimes to the point of incomplete combustion. Now from what I know, Caj pulls the loads at 55mph and doesn't do a lot of city driving, starting, etc. He has the load factor but all the other factors don't really apply to him so I can see 10k as a good changing point. The people starting and driving 5 miles to work and other places are the ones who need to change more frequently. There is a huge difference between 500 miles in a day and 500 miles in 100 days. There is a point where the engine becomes efficient and wears less, and having to hit that point daily (which I doubt 5 miles will ever hit that point (operating temp point)) will increase wear and decrease oil life. Now the other thing which has been talked about is filtering. You can't expect oil to be worth anything if you are only straining it through a sock, it must have good filtration. The better the filtering the longer it will last. In Dorkweed's case, he believes oil does not get "old", it just gets dirty. He has a frantz TP filter and changes it often and has ran the same oil change for 80,000 miles. By changing the filter often, he is able to keep the filter from becoming plugged. I know some people cringe when they think of that but it was just an example showing proof that cleanliness is key. His truck still starts and runs fine and gets good mileage pulling trailers. When you use a crappy oil filter, the oil quickly becomes full of abrasives that pass through the filter, you can change it at 3k but the other oil will be full of abrasives just as quick. You do not change the oil ant 3k because it is bad, you change it because the filter has filtered to the point of being clogged. However, this is a bunch of crap. If you have a crappy oil filter that lets a lot of stuff through, the big particles will accumulate eventually and start to plug up the filter, but this is a good thing. Now your crappy oil filter is plugged up to the point that it can now catch the small particles that it had been passing through. The problem is knowing when it is completely plugged with big and small particles. Your oil pressure would indicate this as being a huge restriction (though our trucks oil pressure gauges don't exactly gauge, they just turn on and off, use a scan gauge for a real number). For most people, I think 7,500-10k is a good point to use. If you are starting it every day, driving 80mph pulling 40k, change it at 3k.

We all know that oil serves us 4 purposes, and that is, seal, cool, lubricate, and clean.

The part about cooling is what I want to hit on as it is another factor. I am sure everyone knows what coking is, if not I will attach a pic on here to show it. When the oil gets hot because of high load conditions, it can get too hot and break the oil down, burning out critical detergents. This happens in the turbo bearings when you are running high boost and high EGT's. Not too much of an issue, but something to think about.

[guesswho512]

If you have a crappy oil filter that lets a lot of stuff through, the big particles will accumulate eventually and start to plug up the filter, but this is a good thing. Now your crappy oil filter is plugged up to the point that it can now catch the small particles that it had been passing through. The problem is knowing when it is completely plugged with big and small particles. Your oil pressure would indicate this as being a huge restriction (though our trucks oil pressure gauges don't exactly gauge, they just turn on and off, use a scan gauge for a real number).

the oil filter is not the same as a fuel filter. the filter has a by-pass valve inside it to prevent oil pressure loss. as the filter becomes clogged to slow the oil pressure, the valve opens to prevent pressure loss. after a point the full flow filter is not filtering anything.

[ISX]

the oil filter is not the same as a fuel filter. the filter has a by-pass valve inside it to prevent oil pressure loss. as the filter becomes clogged to slow the oil pressure, the valve opens to prevent pressure loss. after a point the full flow filter is not filtering anything.

A brand new filter and a clogged filter are not going to be the exact same pressure. It will bypass and everything, but if you watch the gauge closely, you can tell. I'm not saying a 50psi difference, but there will be a difference.

[AH64ID]

A brand new filter and a clogged filter are not going to be the exact same pressure. It will bypass and everything, but if you watch the gauge closely, you can tell. I'm not saying a 50psi difference, but there will be a difference.

If there is a difference I doubt you see more than a couple psi change, and ambient conditions are enough to cause a 3-5 psi shift just at cruise speeds and loads, throw towing in there and one rpm can have over a 15 psi shift. The easiest time to tell a filter is more plugged is when cold and the internal bypass can't flow enough. You will have more pressure pre-filter and lower post-filter. But filter media is very important, its why you won't see anything on my motor but the Amsoil/Donaldson media, its simply the best. It holds the most contaminates, flows the best, and has the finest rating I have seen offered for full flow filters. The Purolator PureOne has the same filtration ratings as the Amsoil/Donaldson but is not an extended life filter. If you beleived in frequent and often oil/filter changes then look at the PureOne, its a bit cheaper than the Amsoil/Donaldson but it will not last for extended drain intervals. 7500 on a Pureone would probably be okay, but will need UOA to confirm. Oil does wear out, just at a much slower rate than it gets contaminated. With no make-up oil my last oil had lots of life in it at 30K miles, just too dirty to run. The other thing the TP have going for them is you replace a lot of oil when you do the filter every few thousand miles. So you are putting more additives in as you change the filter, this is one reason that dino can go so long on a Frantz style BP, lots of make-up oil. If you change your filter every 2K miles and add a qt of makeup you have done a complete "change" every 24K miles, so its a lot easier to go for extended drain intervals with non-synthetic. I wouldn't suggest synthetic with a Frantz as it's just too expensive, the oil I run is about $8 a qt, not worth dumping a qt every 2K miles.

[Mopar1973Man]

Just a side not for you AH64ID... I'm changing my Frantz Filter every 5K miles and full oil change at 10K so basically I loose 1 quart of oil at the filter change and it puts me exactly at the half way mark between full and add so I run the last 5K and change it completely by 10K miles. So there is no make up oil needed...

[AH64ID]

Just a side not for you AH64ID... I'm changing my Frantz Filter every 5K miles and full oil change at 10K so basically I loose 1 quart of oil at the filter change and it puts me exactly at the half way mark between full and add so I run the last 5K and change it completely by 10K miles. So there is no make up oil needed...

The reccommended OCI from Frantz for diesel applications is 1500-2500 miles. At 5K miles are you sure your still getting flow thru the filter?

[Mopar1973Man]

Yeah... Still flowing oil at 5K miles no problem.

[DieselD24]

Based on what I have been reading, it seems like everyone is doing oil changes at 5,000 or more miles. Plenty more at 7,500 or 10,000 and even at 10,000 with a filter change in between.I only start the truck two times a day, and that is to work and from work, maybe three or four at the max when running errands and such but, my driving distance from home to work is about 15 miles or so on the highway. The engine only sees no more than 65-70 MPH highway and roughly 35-40 on city streets. ISX had mentioned earlier his engine sees 45 everday and hardly loads the engine at that speed. Now, I don't know how much of an increase in engine load there would be at 65-70 but, by that time I would think there's a bigger window of engine load placed on the components, thus creating more friction.Another thing I have considered is the amount of fuel that gets introduced into the oil at start-up. I don't like letting the truck idle for very long because I don't want to cook the inectors but, sometimes its really cold and I like driving inside a warm cab. Usually by the time I'm ready to leave the coolant temperature is at 110 or 120 degrees but, I'm thinking a decent amount of fuel has fallen into the oil by doing this.With all that said would it be safe to say I can do my oil change at 10,000 miles as well?

[Mopar1973Man]

Based on what I have been reading, it seems like everyone is doing oil changes at 5,000 or more miles. Plenty more at 7,500 or 10,000 and even at 10,000 with a filter change in between.

The owners manual states 7,500 miles for oil change... Why would you start below this value? Remember this isn't a 5 quart gasoline engine this is a 11 quart diesel engine. Now if the pan only held 5 quarts I would be changing every 5k miles but remember you got more oil in the sump than a normal gasser... I've seen a few comments about Frantz filters here... Well here is a guy in Oregon that did a great write up on the Frantz Filter... http://www.cumminsforum.com/articles/articles/18/1/Anatomy-of-a-Frantz-toilet-paper-bypass-oil-filter/Page1.html

[DieselD24]

I didn't know the manufacturer stated 7,500 miles until I read it, but I thought that seemed a little long, seeing as how I've done oil changes on cars every 3,000 or shortly after that mark. But, that's all I've ever known.After what I've read, I wouldn't want to do an oil change below the value specified. After all it's the manufacturers recommendation. Everyone has different intervals they do their oil change at. But I think the way the engine is driven, how often, and stuff like that plays a big role in when to change it.

[98whitelightnin]

I just changed my oil at 6500 with 150hp injectors, I took a sample but havent sent it off yet. I changed to VPB and a Donaldson P558615 filter. I got the filter for $5 at my local cummins store so I assumed it was a good filter.

[Mopar1973Man]

Here is a few to keep you thinking... 1983 Honda Goldwing GL1100I - 6,000 miles (oil change and filter 5 quarts) 2008 Honda Rancher ATV - 600 miles (oil change and filter 4 quarts) Both values are right from the Honda Factory Service Manual... Now to give you some more to think about... So now comparing filter systems... The little Honda Rancher ATV to Cummins Fleetguard... But how many grams of debris do you think the Honda filter and the Cummins filter will hold? Ahhh! Since the filter system is so tiny in contrast to the Cummins filter thats why the change interval is reduced greatly. Same thing goes for cars like the filter for my Dodge Charger is half the size of the Cummins. Compared to the average Cummins owner stays to the pavement most times. But see here is where the Frantz picks up the slack for me since most of my travel is dirt road in Idaho I'm like the ATV so to add some extra protection I jump in on the Frantz filter to add in filtering down the oil. I'm not saying this is the ONLY answer but very inexpensive answer for a person that lives way out in the middle of nowhere Idaho...

[DieselD24]

Here is a few to keep you thinking... 1983 Honda Goldwing GL1100I - 6,000 miles (oil change and filter 5 quarts) 2008 Honda Rancher ATV - 600 miles (oil change and filter 4 quarts) Both values are right from the Honda Factory Service Manual... Now to give you some more to think about... [ATTACH=CONFIG]2455[/ATTACH] So now comparing filter systems... The little Honda Rancher ATV to Cummins Fleetguard... But how many grams of debris do you think the Honda filter and the Cummins filter will hold? Ahhh! Since the filter system is so tiny in contrast to the Cummins filter thats why the change interval is reduced greatly. Same thing goes for cars like the filter for my Dodge Charger is half the size of the Cummins. Compared to the average Cummins owner stays to the pavement most times. But see here is where the Frantz picks up the slack for me since most of my travel is dirt road in Idaho I'm like the ATV so to add some extra protection I jump in on the Frantz filter to add in filtering down the oil. I'm not saying this is the ONLY answer but very inexpensive answer for a person that lives way out in the middle of nowhere Idaho...

I can see why you would have added a frantz filter to your system. But I, where I don't drive in any dirt roads and only pavement, don't see a reason to add one, other than the fact that it's another filter in the lube gallery. I'm sure its very nice to have though. How has it worked out for you?

[Mopar1973Man]

How has it worked out for you?

I'll let you know at about 500K miles... Seriously... It's easy to mantain, filters are cheap and plentiful, etc... The only thing I had to order for replacement parts was the base O-ring and I bought 4 of them for about $10 bucks or so... Another nice thing Frantz Filters are American Made right here in Nampa, Idaho. The competetion was the Motor Guard made in the same fashion... Which is no long produced but you can talk to Dorkweed he's got one... Been over 80K miles without a oil change and tested through Blackstone labs...

[Heavyd1980]

well i guess i will revise my oil change mileage and go for 5k since i do quite a bit of stop and go driving.

[DieselD24]

I'll let you know at about 500K miles... Seriously... It's easy to mantain, filters are cheap and plentiful, etc... The only thing I had to order for replacement parts was the base O-ring and I bought 4 of them for about $10 bucks or so... Another nice thing Frantz Filters are American Made right here in Nampa, Idaho. The competetion was the Motor Guard made in the same fashion... Which is no long produced but you can talk to Dorkweed he's got one... Been over 80K miles without a oil change and tested through Blackstone labs...

I've got a couple questions then... Is this the toilet paper filter everyone is talking about? If so, do they supply you with the filtering medium? How many miles do you have left till you hit your mark? And... What do you expect to see at 500,000 miles with the Frantz filter?

[cajflynn]

And... When do you expect to see 500,000 miles with the Frantz filter?

As soon as`he gives it to me! hahahahaha