Teardown and Rebuild

[CSM]

Huh.  

 

I am kinda bummed as well... I'm not sure what's missing there.  I wonder what it would have done with the 12. 

 

How's the butt dyno feel?

Edited April 11, 2016 by CSM

[TFaoro]

1 hour ago, CSM said:

Huh.  

 

I am kinda bummed as well... I'm not sure what's missing there.  I wonder what it would have done with the 12. 

 

How's the butt dyno feel?

The 518 was with the 12cm housing. I don't know if it's the dyno or what. It made more power with the 125hp injectors. 

It feels like a heck of a lot more power than before.... maybe I'm crazy.

[NightHawk]

53 minutes ago, TFaoro said:

The 518 was with the 12cm housing. I don't know if it's the dyno or what. It made more power with the 125hp injectors. 

It feels like a heck of a lot more power than before.... maybe I'm crazy.

I have two questions.

1. What size are you injectors, not by "hp"? 
2. Do you have the ability to drop in a different turbo then the 62?

[BBHD]

If you want to try running them again let me know 

[CTcummins24V]

Were you blowing some serious smoke? Lost all your bottom end power due to laggy turbo?

[JOHNFAK]

I'd leave it near where it is.

500+hp is best all around area for fun, towing,DD 

You can always just play around with setup to push extra 5-10% out of it 

 

How much boost was each making 

And DP ? 

[TFaoro]

10 hours ago, NightHawk said:

I have two questions.

1. What size are you injectors, not by "hp"? 
2. Do you have the ability to drop in a different turbo then the 62?

 

7x.013

No, it's the only one I've got right now.

 

4 hours ago, BBHD said:

If you want to try running them again let me know 

 

Thanks! I'll stick with these for the moment though. I'll send you a PM if I'd like to try them   

 

4 hours ago, CTcummins24V said:

Were you blowing some serious smoke? Lost all your bottom end power due to laggy turbo?

 

Yes. It's always got a crazy amount of smoke when my foot is on the floor. Even over 60psi of boost.

 

4 hours ago, JOHNFAK said:

I'd leave it near where it is.

500+hp is best all around area for fun, towing,DD 

You can always just play around with setup to push extra 5-10% out of it 

 

How much boost was each making 

And DP ? 

 

The problem I'm having is this "recipe" (package of parts) has made well over 600 on the dyno multiple times. Heck I've personally watched multiple trucks do it.

 

I normally run the tuner on the fuel mileage setting anyway, so that's probably 300hp or so. It's just stock fueling with some timing. It tows like a champ with can-bus fueling only. Peaked the EGTs at 1202 with my foot on the floor and made 50psi of boost while towing. I should be able to turn the tuner up and hit over 600 though. 

 

I did a bunch of runs with different wastegate settings. Wastegate closed down was making 65ish psi with 20 coming from the primary. Wastegate open it was making 55ish with 28 coming from the primary. Wastegate in the middle was making around 60 with 25 coming from the primary.

 

I even swapped in the TST and smarty to see if it was the quad goofing up. Made almost identical power, but the EGTs hit 1830.

[Me78569]

Tyler,

 

Having been in your truck with both the single and twins I can say there is no way the twins are making only 518hp.  The difference with the twins and sticks is like going from a canbus fueling only box to a wiretap fueling box, at least in terms of the butt dyno riding in the passenger seat.

 

If you really wanna guesstimate power, we can line up and do a rolling pull between my truck and yours.  I should be between 450hp and 475 hp I would guess.   I know you would walk me easy, but if you don't we know there is an issue.

Edited April 11, 2016 by Me78569

[JOHNFAK]

Dynos vary (loading)

Trucks vary. (tire sizes, tunes, cams, injectors, timing)

Seat of pants means very little just because where the power comes in.

The DFI 7x0.009 with a he351ve would be lucky to hit 400HP (sorry) - its jut one of those things that people think hitting 500HP is easy ....... its actually pretty hard.

I ran 7x0.010 with 351cw/s472 and made 450HP in old setup. More fuel and way more air.

 

I have mixed emotions personanly ....... I hit 80+  psi boost with 30 from secondary. But both my turbos are bigger. 

I'm hoping for 650 but honestly wouldn't surprise me anywhere from 550-700.

 

Guess it depends if you feel you need to get over 600. If you do I get it ....... If I didnt get 600 I'd probably keep shooting till i did. But in the end unless its goal to jut say you did it ....... rally doesn't matter that much as anything over 500hp is heck of a lot of fun to drive.

 

Guess IM sayinig dont sweat it ......... and going ppump ....... meh ....... unless you really want over 600HP ......Id stick to what you have. 

 

 

 

 

[Me78569]

Agree'd dyno numbers are useless to compare truck to truck.  They read high, they read low, they read right, take your pick.

 

I don't honestly care about 400 hp vs 500 hp, so no need to be sorry ( basic ricer math push comparing other setups that did run a dyno is why I came up with that number, guesstimate at best)

 

Ricer math says your setup should have put down more power with the twins, but it isn't important.  

 

 

Point is Tylers old setup with 125's was significantly less powerful that his current setup.  Torque curve area does make a huge butt dyno difference,   The butt dyno lies, but it doesn't lie that much, it was honestly night and day difference.  well more like going from Wow that's quick, to holy hell that's a beast.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Knew I should have gone with 7 x .010

Edited April 11, 2016 by Me78569

[JOHNFAK]

Yeah butt dynos lie that much

 

I've had 6.7L guys in my truck tell me I have to be over 750hp. Mainly due to 80+psi boost and the butt dyno.

I know I'm not. If I had a stab - Id say 625-650. Thats a big diff.

 

I was told on the old ttwin setup 550HP easy. People that rode in truck and on forums.

It made 448 or something. Thats a big diff.

 

Point of my post was really just 2 things.

 

1) HItting these large numbers i harder than people think. 95% of the time the numbers are lower than expected because everyone out there running a modified truck is easily over 500hp .... right ? 

2) Unless your specifically dynoing your truck for a goal (dyno queen) or racing/tuning to just seeing how high you can get ....... really means nothing. People do it to say they have a 600HP truck - then get bummed when the dyno says - no 500. Oh it must be the dyno. NOPE. Oh now I'll adjust for atmosphere.

 

Since he built his engine I get why he may want to hit 600HP ........ Im just saying there aren't a LOT of true 600HP vp trucks out there compared to what you "hear". 

 

I think his truck is baddass as it is ............  and Id be looking to change the primary wto couple the larger injectors if he has to hit more.

 

[Me78569]

I would like to see the paperwork on where the others guys got their butt dynos calibrated......   

 

Must be the same place they got their fish length detectors calibrated.

 

That must be the issue.

 

 

Edited April 11, 2016 by Me78569

[JOHNFAK]

Just now, Me78569 said:

I would like to see the paperwork on where the others guys got their butt dynos calibrated......   

 

 

That must be the issue.

 

LOL.

Yeah its not a personal thing - I have no skin in the game.

 

Go look at the CF dyno sheet where everyone posts numbers. You'll see 90% of 2 kinds of posts.

* I made 688 HP on a Hx40 and some uknown sticks
* I made 440 HP on a setup that should do 650 HP +

 

Just if he' been on 2 dynos and both say he' 528 - hes probably "close" to 528. 

Try more dynos and try the track. 

But what do you do when 4 dynos say 528 and 1 says 578 on same setup ??? What does the truck do really ? 

 

So much more to performance than most of understand (especially me) . CAM/timing/duration/spray pattern, CFM, gearing, others .... they all play a part.  

 

[TFaoro]

This is the same dyno  I've been on before. It made 503 with a stock motor, 7x.0095, tst, and a smarty. 

Are you saying bigger injectors, a cam, and a hell of a lot more air gained me 15hp ?

[JOHNFAK]

Are you saying the same dyno is lying ?

If so which numbers ?

 

 

[TFaoro]

I'm not sure... Last year around this time 503hp 1215ft-lbs.

Two days ago on the exact same dyno 518 not sure about torque. I'm confident it was lying on of those times.

 

I'm thinking it was lying this time though because a different dyno had it at 502hp last year too.

 

The butt dyno doesn't lie when there are these big of changes made to the motor. Im not saying is a million HP but I know it makes more than it used to. 

[JOHNFAK]

Biggest thing I see is you said your only making 50psi boost.

The older formula of 10HP per #psi is actually ballpark not bad unless you have a heavily modified head and cam.

 

I'm assuming you have a stock head or at stock head with mild port ........... so your boost numbers suggest ~500-550HP.

 

Id try a bigger primary.  But I have no reason to suggest so other than 83/1.1 is pretty small - good for spoolup.

 

There have been multiple people report maikng large changes (CAM, TURBO, INJECTORS and even new head like a CR head) with very little uptick in numbers. 

Think there was an article by ZACK HAM back in the day about how they were playing with bigger profile cams and turbos and seeing no gain. And only when they realized how they all played togetehr nad made those adjustments they then saw the gains they expected.

 

Not the one I was looking for but ...

 

" Zach Hamilton: When we first started doing cams, gains were easily had. But, as time passed, gains were starting to be harder to find. This put us on a search for what exactly was holding engines back from producing more power. After some research, it was pretty obvious that regardless of what we did with the cam, there was no way we could reach the engine's full potential unless we had a better option for the cylinder head.  "

 

The one I was reading referring to was that sometimes the wrong cam profile can starve the truck from power on a stock head.

 

 

Having said all that ........... a lot of stock heads making GOBS power

 

 

 

good luck 

 

 

[dripley]

Comp+rv275's+HX35=a lot of fun for me. But I do see how addicting wanting more can be. Me, I think I would be a menace to society if I had much more. Good luck on quest.

 

And by the way, I would love to take a ride in your truck.

[NightHawk]

8 hours ago, TFaoro said:

I'm not sure... Last year around this time 503hp 1215ft-lbs.

Two days ago on the exact same dyno 518 not sure about torque. I'm confident it was lying on of those times.

 

I'm thinking it was lying this time though because a different dyno had it at 502hp last year too.

 

The butt dyno doesn't lie when there are these big of changes made to the motor. Im not saying is a million HP but I know it makes more than it used to. 

 

Please do not take offense to this statement, but you are using the dyno incorrectly.  The dyno is a tuning tool and while it measures output, the benefit is being able to see how your changes affect your power output in real time.

 

My suggestion for your proceeds forward are below, as while it may not provide the answers you seek at this time it will enable you to find them.

1. Swap the 7X.013 injectors to 7x.010, as you are not going to be short of fuel to achieve a 550-600hp rig.  The worse thing you can do is over injector/nozzle your rig as its not a CR were fuel can be pulled from the tune.  7x.010 are a good choice for a street/tow truck that has drive-ability while still making good power.
2. Rent dyno time and focus on tuning your truck (fuel/air) to find out what combo makes the most power while having the best all around drive-ability.  If in your shoes, I would start on air side as from the post previous in this thread you are having issues with the compound setup.  I would remove any electronic stacks and just use a single tuning box (quad) and only turn on boost fooling/timing.  Once you get the compounds happy (drive pressure vs spoolup) start adding the fuel via quad in small steps.  As you know, adding fuel will change turbo setup up (wastegates) but at-least you had a starting point to build off of when working in small steps.

 

 

 

Edited April 12, 2016 by NightHawk

[notlimah]

This thread expresses all my wants and fears of getting into the world of +500hp land. So I'll continue to live vicariously through you Tyler!