I finally got started on this in earnest today. Did a little on it Monday pm. Then today after the morning mist died away and I got the doctors appointment out of the way the fun began. Itwent pretty well. Not one ceased bolt. They all came out nicely. Made this far today.

My helper.

The offending leak. The oil is from some bad pouring out of the gallon jug.

 

Now a couple questions.

 

Those metal strips between the pairs bolts at the front and rear of the exhaust manifold, are they necessary to reinstall? I thought they were under the bolt heads until I destroyed them all and realized they were over the bolts. They appear to keep the bolts from backing off? I will have to find some if necessary.

 

The exhaust manifold gaskets have raised area on one side, does this raised portion go to the block or the manifold?

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This arrived yesterday.

Hope to have the head off and to the machine shop tomorrow. More to come.

I'll be watching as this is more than likely in my future. What work are you getting done to the head?

 

Can't believe how big the daffodills are and how green the grass is there. Send it north a little.

The metal strips are a bolt locking mechanism to keep the bolts from backing out like exhaust manifold bolts are famous for doing.  I mangled mine too getting them off.  I changed from bolts to stainless steel studs with SS locking nuts and SS lock washers so I didn't have to use the strips again.  Haven't had any trouble with them backing out with the different set up.  You should either put some new ones back on or switch to studs.  If you use studs you don't have to use those useless spacers you had to pull off with the bolts either.  Studs also make it a hundred times easier to put the manifold back on too cuz they hold the manifold gaskets in place and easy to hang manifold on studs.  I did use high temp anti-sieze when I put the studs in the block.

 

I also used my engine hoist when I did mine...so much easier.  Good thinking! 

Edited March 27, 20196 yr by Bullet

1 hour ago, Bullet said:

The metal strips are a bolt locking mechanism to keep the bolts from backing out like exhaust manifold bolts are famous for doing.  I mangled mine too getting them off.  I changed from bolts to stainless steel studs with SS locking nuts and SS lock washers so I didn't have to use the strips again.  Haven't had any trouble with them backing out with the different set up.  You should either put some new ones back on or switch to studs.  If you use studs you don't have to use those useless spacers you had to pull off with the bolts either.  Studs also make it a hundred times easier to put the manifold back on too cuz they hold the manifold gaskets in place and easy to hang manifold on studs.  I did use high temp anti-sieze when I put the studs in the block.

 

I also used my engine hoist when I did mine...so much easier.  Good thinking! 

I get more metal strips if I could find a part number. I was surprised how easy they came out once I broke them loose. No corrosion at all, nothing but lock tite residue. Where did you get your studs from?

 

My 66 year old arse dont pick up nothing it dont have to.

1 hour ago, dave110 said:

I'll be watching as this is more than likely in my future. What work are you getting done to the head?

 

Can't believe how big the daffodills are and how green the grass is there. Send it north a little.

The head is going to get whatever needs. We will see what happens at the machine shop. Nothing special just make right again.

 

Thats actually the neighbors yard. He has grass. We have a multitude of green things growing in our yard. I try to keep mowed tight so it looks good from the street. But we have daffodils that look the same. 

It begs me to ask why not port the exhaust side. Or do the valves.

2 hours ago, dripley said:

I get more metal strips if I could find a part number. I was surprised how easy they came out once I broke them loose. No corrosion at all, nothing but lock tite residue. Where did you get your studs from?

 

My 66 year old arse dont pick up nothing it dont have to.

Lol...I completely agree.  I got my stainless studs, nuts and washers in a kit for our engines off ebay for $45 delivered to my door.  It was worth it for easy reinstall.  See pic for listing... 

@dripley, the raised portion of the gasket is just ensures a seal is going to be made.  It's designed to be crushed and fill in any valley on the mating surface.  It doesn't matter which way they face, but I liked to put all 6 facing the head.

 

I third (or 4th or 5th even) the manifold studs with lock washers.  (even though I'm a bad example and am using stock hardware with an aftermarket manifold with no issues)

7 hours ago, pepsi71ocean said:

It begs me to ask why not port the exhaust side. Or do the valves.

The valves will get done unless miraculously they dont need any thing.

 

As far porting, I have read enough about it to be dangerous. What advantage would I see?

8 minutes ago, trreed said:

@dripley, the raised portion of the gasket is just ensures a seal is going to be made.  It's designed to be crushed and fill in any valley on the mating surface.  It doesn't matter which way they face, but I liked to put all 6 facing the head.

 

I third (or 4th or 5th even) the manifold studs with lock washers.  (even though I'm a bad example and am using stock hardware with an aftermarket manifold with no issues)

Is the stainless really necessary? The oe bolts were not corroded except for the heads. I broke them loose with a wrench and removed them with my fingers. All 12 of them. Figured if I broke a bolt it would happen here.

Stainless is not necessary.  I'm using OE hardware on mine without the locking braces.  It just prevents future issues where the steel units rust into the head and snap off.

Here is what mine looked like. That 17 years on them.

The worst on the left.

 

I can see an advantage with thrm especially the 2 under the outlet. Had to outhink those 2.

Keep going... I want to see the cylinders and pistons. When you lift the head look at the gasket, block and the head.

Hope to see that in the next 4 hours.

 

I have also thought about rebuilding the turbo while I have it off. The only thing stopping is the fact the turbo still works fine and has absolutely no end or axial play in it and spins freely. Anybody see any need to mess with it.

Edited March 27, 20196 yr by dripley

12 hours ago, Bullet said:

If you use studs you don't have to use those useless spacers you had to pull off with the bolts either.

 

Actually, those spacers aren't useless.  The exhaust fasteners (bolts) are designed to maintain their clamping force under thermal expansion / contraction  and vibration.  The hardness, diameter, length, and torque of the fastener is determined by the work it must do. 

 

A longer fastener will stretch a farther distance than a shorter fastener of the same specifications when torqued to the same value.  It is the length of stretch of the fastener that keeps the manifold tight under all operating conditions.  If the spacers were not used to keep the fastener lengths the same, then the shorter fastener (with less distance stretch) will likely become loose because its clamping force will be compromised under certain operating conditions.

 

Using studs with lock washers / nuts or using bolts with retainers - either way, the lock washers / lock nuts or the retainers have nothing to do with clamping force.  All they have to offer is if the fastener under a certain operating condition becomes loose, then the fastener won't back out.  If Cummins has under-engineered the fasteners, or if the operator runs extremely high EGT's, then there is value in using the lock washers / nuts or using the retainers so the fastener won't fall out.

 

I think either using bolts or studs are equally effective, unless some of the studs are of a shorter length.  I certainly see the advantage of using studs for ease of manifold installation.

 

I know I will be doing some head work in the near future.  I will probably reuse the exhaust manifold bolts without the retainers and just periodically inspect the bolts for tightness.  I think they will stay tight.

 

- John

 

1 hour ago, dripley said:

I have also thought about rebuilding the turbo while I have it off. The only thing stopping is the fact the turbo still works fine and has absolutely no end or axial play in it and spins freely. Anybody see any need to mess with it.

Any oil that you can see in either housing?

Edited March 27, 20196 yr by trreed

1 hour ago, Tractorman said:

 

I think either using bolts or studs are equally effective, unless some of the studs are of a shorter length.  I certainly see the advantage of using studs for ease of manifold installation

The studs are shorter. If I am not mistaken the nuts go right against the manifold. That would make them the length of the bolt minus the spacer.

1 hour ago, trreed said:

Any oil that you can see in either housing?

I see none in the front and the pipe to the inter cooler is dry and oil free. But after reading your I reach over just check the play and there is still none in either direction. What disturbs me is now the wheel does not free spin. There is some resistance. Seems to me I spun not long ago and it was fine but it aint right now. I will pull tomorrow and see what the back side looks like.

Here you go @dripley...I snapped a few under hood pics to show what they look like buttoned up. 

Does it make any difference what position the engine is to remove the rockers push rods and such?

Edited March 27, 20196 yr by dripley

http://dodgeram.info/tsb/2001/09-002-01.htm

 

Worth a read, however above pic looks better imo

The turbo will seem tighter since the oil that is in there probably was spun out of the gap between the shaft and the bearing.  I wouldn't worry too much about it.  

 

For removal of the valve train, position does not matter.  Installation is where you want to torque down the rocker arms with no spring tension, i.e. setting the motor to TDC to do standard valve lash and then torquing intake rockers 1-2-4 and exhaust rockers 1-3-5.

Good luck to you along the way.

I also did not reuse steel retainers on exhaust bolts, so far it's fine. What treed said on everything else. Since you didn't separate turbo and the manifold I would leave it be for now you can always rebuild it later. It may another few hundred thousand.

Hope this isn’t your machine shop!

Edited March 28, 20196 yr by trreed