And the premium prices being paid to get them

My guess is when the environmentalists get fossil fuels banned or Governments tax fossil fuel out of use then all internal combustion engines will be paperweights but until then everything that hasn't got any of this regen/DPF/ Adblue rubbish fitted will be high prices

 

here in the UK this week there has been several protests by different groups with one bunch of fools sitting in the middle of the M25 and stopping all traffic for 4 hours or so

Considering prices haven't dropped, quite the opposite actually, since I bought mine in 2015, it's either going to be what @wil440 said or people are gonna wise up.

 

My only thought is you can make diesel at home, sort of. Fryer oil is one way. I don't know what it takes to make actual bio diesel, but I'm sure that there would become an underground market for fuel.

 

Everyone in the states with oil fired home heating would be screwed if they got fossil fuels banned. But the EPA is just crazy enough that I think they would go for it. CARB too. 

 

5 hours ago, wil440 said:

here in the UK this week there has been several protests by different groups with one bunch of fools sitting in the middle of the M25 and stopping all traffic for 4 hours or so

 

And here I thought that was a US only thing, the highway part at least.      

Stop all these forest fire that are making more CO2 that any vehicle in the world. Heck just consider a Boeing 747 hold 63,500 gallons of Jet-A fuel and burns just about 5 GALLONS OF JET-A EVERY ONE MILE. So tell a you Govt not to fly and start walking. You know they will still fly.

 

Out here people are getting 20k to 25k for 1998.5 to 2002 Dodge Cummins. No joke.

Edited September 14, 20214 yr by Mopar1973Man

1 hour ago, Mopar1973Man said:

Stop all these forest fire that are making more CO2 that any vehicle in the world. Heck just consider a Boeing 747 hold 63,500 gallons of Jet-A fuel and burns just about 5 GALLONS OF JET-A EVERY ONE MILE. So tell a you Govt not to fly and start walking. You know they will still fly.

 

Out here people are getting 20k to 25k for 1998.5 to 2002 Dodge Cummins. No joke.

Bit of a conumdrum really as it's rising Co2 that is changing the weather that is causing more forest fires

Spain and Turkey have really burnt this big time

And for the record I'm not a extintion rebellion idiot I just think the internal combustion engine will be no more within my lifetime but maybe not in my driving lifetime 

If they want to stop fossil fuel use then they will have to give us jobs to work at home otherwise pay our bills and mortgages for us. There's no way to solve the problem. Bringing green growth back into abundance will help since plants take in the CO2 and make oxygen. With all the excess CO2 around does that mean we are shortening the supply of oxygen?

Edited September 14, 20214 yr by JAG1

It will be like Cuba. Old cars and trucks like the 12 valve cummins still going as long as people can cobble parts together then only new green vehicles with nothing left in between. ECMs are going extinct for our trucks and many other vehicles. Switching to electric vehicles is low hanging fruit there are many much more difficult things that have to be addressed to lower CO2.

Yes I think prices will stay up for sometime also.  People (like you and me ) want our diesel trucks to sound like diesels and run hard and pull.  I think these older trucks have a good following.  I get ask a couple times a year usually In a parking lot  by some young male persons or person  in early thirtys if I would like to sell my truck etc. they call it old school. 1999 I guess when your early 30 1999 is old school.  I still like my truck as good or better than the day I bought it now since the bugs have been worked out and power increased etc.  I’m always happy to drive it.  Only reason I’m buying new is for the warranty and I’m to old to keep it up.  It’s been a hard choice to make and getting old sucks

15 minutes ago, Great work! said:

It will be like Cuba. Old cars and trucks like the 12 valve cummins still going as long as people can cobble parts together then only new green vehicles with nothing left in between. ECMs are going extinct for our trucks and many other vehicles. Switching to electric vehicles is low hanging fruit there are many much more difficult things that have to be addressed to lower CO2.

I'll agree with you on that! 

 

On another note...I have always been impressed with the algae biodiesel. I have a drum of old cooking oil in my yard but never got to refining it. The biofuels are also a lot nicer to our fuel system with the added lubricity.

If I was to buy a new truck tomorrow, I would have to do it without parting with my 2nd gen, Treat it  right the value will continue to climb,

 

just look at the value of the muscle car era of late 60’s and early 70’s, and what they are worth today, even with the emissions literally chocking them out,

 

I don’t see in a crystal ball but don’t see the internal combustion engine going away in my lifetime, maybe in my kids lifetime who knows, I’ve been driving semi for 30 years and only have a few good years left, way to much demand and dependent on diesel to try and pull the plug completely,, we already do a good job cleaning the air of particulates with DPF systems and such, even though the DPF is a good system on its own it’s all the over engineered and mandated sensors and garbage that makes them fail. hopefully we can just continue to improve on what we have, 

 

No matter what mandates the gobermint throws at us we are resilient and will find ways to overcome, that’s just the way we are here in the USA,  
 

Another aspect of climate change, is all of the forest fires that are burning so huge and hot that they create their own weather pattern. Here in Oregon with the Southern Oregon fire this summer burning over 400k acres, it was nothing but smoke in the air 24x7. The NE Oregon fire was burning at the same time so there was no reprieve from constant thick smoke in the air at all times.

 

I will say this about the forest fires. If the stupid government and liberal tree huggers would let the loggers go in and clear out the downfall and dead trees just to thin that out of the forests, we wouldn't have these huge forest fires that last all summer. We never had them like this when I was a kid, because the loggers kept the forests cleaned up and clear of rapid burning fuel (dead trees and the blown down trees). The spotted owl in Oregon and Washington is not a native bird and was supposedly from Canada. I hunt and fish and believe in wildlife conservation to help manage our herds and ensure that native species can survive in the ecosystems, but invasive species don't need the same protections.

On 9/14/2021 at 7:12 AM, Mopar1973Man said:

Out here people are getting 20k to 25k for 1998.5 to 2002 Dodge Cummins.

You're kidding right? Were do I list it to get that kind of money? I got Blue Booked for under $5000 bucks. Hell, the Caravan Camper alone cost $7500. I'd drive the rig over a cliff before letting it go for $5K. 

If you know of any interested parties up your way let me know. I'll split the difference and let it go for $22,500.00. Seriously!

Edited September 16, 20214 yr by MikeH

I’ve seen clean trucks on fleabay asking $25k but am unsure if they sell at that price. Fact is 2nd gen trucks are proven and without strict emissions equipment. Most everyone I speak to about their brand new truck complains about failing & costly emissions equipment hence the market for deletes.

1 minute ago, evan717 said:

Most everyone I speak to about their brand new truck complains about failing & costly emissions equipment hence the market for deletes.

Exactly what I see people selling there 3rd, 4th or 5th gen trucks and wanting a 2nd gen. There is a high demand for 2nd gen trucks here.

26 minutes ago, evan717 said:

I’ve seen clean trucks on fleabay asking $25k but am unsure if they sell at that price. Fact is 2nd gen trucks are proven and without strict emissions equipment. Most everyone I speak to about their brand new truck complains about failing & costly emissions equipment hence the market for deletes.

The emissions systems on everything does not work and is actually unfit for purpose, yes it will remove emissions until it regens then where does all that end up... out the tailpipe, stand close to one that is regening man they stink far worse than a 2nd gen.

Also the tech is unreliable.... Caterpillar DPF's are a good case, engine ecu states it needs replacing every 5000hrs usually for no reason but the ecu will not let the engine run until it is replaced or the ecu is told it's been replaced... as far as I know Cat ET is the only software that can do this rip off caterpillar... I lease a new car for my wife because I won't own one, if and when it breaks it's a phone call " fix this" warrantied the whole time I lease it

 

 

As much as I would hate to get rid of my pickup...for that kind of money it might have to go. Always tried to do my own maintenance and keep the rig in tip top shape but I'm not getting any younger. Even rotating tires is a chore these days.

Anyway, I had no idea they were going for that kind of cash. Maybe I'll just put a sign in the window and see what happens.

1 hour ago, MikeH said:

As much as I would hate to get rid of my pickup...for that kind of money it might have to go. Always tried to do my own maintenance and keep the rig in tip top shape but I'm not getting any younger. Even rotating tires is a chore these days.

Anyway, I had no idea they were going for that kind of cash. Maybe I'll just put a sign in the window and see what happens.

Mike do like I do and ride a bicycle everyday. It keeps you fit, develops balance and agility I can still work on both my second gens at 70. A bit slower but it better I go slow cause young guys make all the mistakes, remember?

2 hours ago, MikeH said:

I got Blue Booked for under $5000 bucks.

The Kelley Blue Book is a price guide; the real price is what the value of the vehicle to the consumer.  An example of this is when fuel prices rise sharply then the demand for fuel guzzling vehicles falls and fuel efficient vehicle rise as does their respective values regardless of the Blue Book value.

 

30 minutes ago, JAG1 said:

I go slow cause young guys make all the mistakes, remember?

So, since I'm younger than you, I "make all the mistakes"?  

Edited September 16, 20214 yr by IBMobile

2 hours ago, JAG1 said:

Mike do like I do and ride a bicycle everyday.

My wife and I are avid hikers & bikers. We're a little older than you but try to get 6 - 8 miles in every day. I can still see the day when I don't want to climb under that Dodge anymore. A new (newer) rig still under warranty is sounding better as I age. Given the prices mentioned in this thread I'll really have to give it some thought.

2 hours ago, IBMobile said:

The Kelley Blue Book is a price guide;

Yep...I agree. I use it for a ball park figure. My rig came in under $5K which to me is a joke. I just had no idea the 2nd gen trucks were going for $20K or more. I didn't pay much more than that when I drove it off the lot 19 years ago!

1 hour ago, MikeH said:

I can still see the day when I don't want to climb under that Dodge anymore.

I would rather crawl under my 2002 Dodge any day over any Common Rail. More expensive and bigger pain in ... Everyone tends to forget I work thousands of vehicles, Ford, Chevy, Dodge and plenty of rice too.

52 minutes ago, Mopar1973Man said:

I would rather crawl under my 2002 Dodge any day over any Common Rail.

Me too Mike. The 2nd gen rigs were pretty easy to work on for the backyard mechanic like myself. The newer stuff looks like a major headache. At this point though my age is catching up with me. Getting tired of turning wrenches I guess. With my wife's Prius it's much easier. I just have to look after the simple stuff like fuel, tire pressure, washer fluid, etc. The dealer takes care of the big stuff and it's all under an extended warranty. 

As much as I love my '02 Dodge (going on 20 years now) for $25k bucks it might have to go.