2 stroke info.

[NightHawk]

5 hours ago, JAG1 said:

NightHawk I don't understand how you could not like the way your truck runs on 2 cycle oil. Both my trucks, the 24 valve and especially the 12 valve run noticeably better on it.

In my experience (may not be your truck) 2cycle made the following changes listed below. When I tried some XDP, all the items below were reversed. 

 

• Start-up was noticeable smokyer both cold & hot

• With my TS MVP @ 75% I had too much throttle transition & WOT throttle smoke

• Towing & hauling created had more soot buildup

• Engine throttle response felt less snappy when adding throttle to climb a grade

• EGT's were higher at cruise & climbing grades

   

4 hours ago, Mopar1973Man said:

So that's the difference between Opti-lube an 2 cycle oil. It the cetane. 2 Cycle Oil is a natural cetane reducer where Opti-lube is a cetane booster.

Not all of the products though....

[Mopar1973Man]

XL would be the the one I would take... Being I know the local cetane levels are already high. 

As for performance wise we are night and day difference. Much stronger pulling in 4th gear enough to break the tire lose on grades. Smoke free running. I do have a small puff of oil smoke on first start valve seal are getting sloppy. Other than that typically low to mid 20's MPG. Very little soot or smoke. Fuel system wise the only thing I changed was the +50 injectors.

Still I won't knock the score that Opti-lube does have very impressive. Now if it was sold locally I would be more apt to purchasing it.  

Edited February 20, 2016 by Mopar1973Man

[AH64ID]

I do wonder if the chevron chart aplies to fuel that has the Cetane chemically increased versus an increase thru the refining process. 

 

 

[Jond09]

Ive run 2stroke oil in my 06 cummins 2500 4x4 since it had 40k miles on it. Bought the truck new in Dec of 05. About 200k miles using it now after that. Use a baldwin fuel filter. Hypertech on highest setting. Pull a 32 ft gooseneck loaded pretty often. 38" tires. No negative effects.  Knock on wood, ive never touched any part in my motor or fuel system. Hopefully ill see another 200k plus on stock parts using it. 

[Evan]

I cant tell a difference with 2stroke. I dump a quart in here and there for the pump. Then I forget for a few tanks. No change in idle either.

[Tractorman]

 

I tried two stroke oil once.  The engine was real quiet when I poured it in the tank, but as soon as I started the engine, the noise came back.

 

Actually, living in Oregon I get the benefit of the state mandated 5% bio-diesel at the pump so I have never had the need to seriously try two stroke on a regular basis.  If it weren't for the mandated 5% bio-diesel, I know I would experiment with adding two stroke oil.

 

Also, I occasionally run 20% bio-diesel and I have noticed gains in mpg on several occasions (both towing and not towing) which did surprise me a little.

 

- John

[dripley]

I am seeing more and more bio diesel down here in the SE. As long as I know its in there I dont use two stroke. I did notice a difference in the noise leve at idle with either one, but it is minimal. 

 

@Tractorman is that 20% bio mass diesel by any chance?  I ask because I see a slight drop with the 20% biodiesel. But there were 2 stations in Tennessee that sold bio mass diesel that I got almost 2 mpg more than the other places that were labeled bio diesel. It got the extra mpg every time I bought at those 2 stations.

Edited December 12, 2019 by dripley

[Tractorman]

5 hours ago, dripley said:

is that 20% bio mass diesel by any chance? 

 

That's a good question... and I don't know the answer.  I fill with bio-diesel (think) on occasion - at a Safeway store in Molalla, Or (in the Willamette Valley) and a busy station in John Day, Or ( small town).  I will check the labels on my next fill up.

 

I pulled these definitions from on-line:

 

Biomass based diesel - The U.S. Federal Trade Commission has defined biodiesel and biomass-based diesel to clarify their differences. According to the FTC, biomass-based diesel means “a diesel fuel substitute produced from non-petroleum renewable resources that meets the registration requirements for fuels and fuel additives established by the Environmental Protection Agency under 42 U.S.C. 7545, and includes fuel derived from animal wastes, including poultry fats and poultry wastes, and other waste materials, or from municipal solid waste and sludges and oils derived from wastewater and the treatment of wastewater, except that the term does not include biodiesel.”

 

Biodiesel, on the other hand, means “the mono alkyl esters of long chain fatty acids derived from plant or animal matter that meet: the registration requirements for fuels and fuel additives under 40 CFR Part 79; and the requirements of the American Society for Testing and Materials standard D6751–07b (Standard Specification for Biodiesel Fuel Blend Stock (B100) for Middle Distillate Fuels).”

 

- John

[Mopar1973Man]

Either way biodiesel is lower in BTU content per gallon versus straight petroleum diesel. Not to mention it poses a gelling issues that can't be fixed chemically. The only bonus is the low HFRR number. 

 

I did learn optimally it would be good idea to have a Quadzilla and you can tune around the high cetane biodiesel properly. Even the high cetane petroleum diesel needs some retarding to keep proper timing.

[dripley]

I see no difference in mileage on the 5% mix and about a 5% loss on the 20% mix except on the few tanks of fuel from the pumps labeled bio mass diesel. I got 10% incresse in mileage. This was on pure interstate runs at 70 to 75 mph. I did it 4 times over the course of a couple months. 

 

There has to be some difference between the 2.

Edited December 12, 2019 by dripley

[Mopar1973Man]

Might do better with a Quadzilla. Like myself I'm tuned into the high cetane and here and again reached 20 MPG at 80 MPH.

 

[Tractorman]

On ‎12‎/‎12‎/‎2019 at 4:37 AM, dripley said:

 is that 20% bio mass diesel by any chance?

 

This bio-diesel or bio-mass diesel thing is bugging me.  I carefully looked over the sticker today at one of the diesel pumps here in Oregon.  All it says is either B5 or B20, so I don't know if it is bio or bio-mass.  @dripley, Do you know of any way to get that information?  All I do know is that when I use B20, my fuel mileage increases despite the assumed fewer BTU's.  I have used B20 several times now and each time fuel economy is very good - towing or empty.

 

- John

[dripley]

8 hours ago, Tractorman said:

 

This bio-diesel or bio-mass diesel thing is bugging me.  I carefully looked over the sticker today at one of the diesel pumps here in Oregon.  All it says is either B5 or B20, so I don't know if it is bio or bio-mass.  @dripley, Do you know of any way to get that information?  All I do know is that when I use B20, my fuel mileage increases despite the assumed fewer BTU's.  I have used B20 several times now and each time fuel economy is very good - towing or empty.

 

- John

Here is what I am seeing more of out my way.

Some read 20% and a good many say "may contain". I used to seethem marked B5 and B20 like say and for a while the pumps did not have to be labled at all with 5% or less. I have no problem running the blended fuel but it would nice to know what you are getting. The labeling is to vague. 

 

The 2 stations I found in Tennessee were labeled very similar except for the biomass used insted of biodiesel. My mileage went up with the ones labeled bio mass. I do not remember the mix percentage. I got 22.5 mpg at 75 mph on the biomass compare to unlabled fuel or biodiesel labeled pumps. I get 19.5 mpg normally, unless its 20% biodiesel. I get 18.5 to 19 with that mix.

 

This is what I saw for the most part several years back. Even more vague. This one is even from Tennessee, but not from the stations I got the biomass.

 

 

[dripley]

On top those i see this one filling up on the way home.

 

I like the bio fuel but it would be nice to know what you are getting.

[Mopar1973Man]

Beyond me...

 

Rare to see biodiesel here in Idaho. Then the price of biodiesel here if you do find its roughly 15 to 30 cents a gallon more per gallon over a gallon of petroleum diesel. Every time I get to Ontario, OR which is biodiesel required state and it just as high as the highest price diesel in Idaho. New Meadows is 3.399 a gallon and Ontario is 3.459. Then if I stop in Payette, ID I get super low price of 3.299 a gallon. When I tested biodiesel from Ontario I took a loss in MPG's always did better with petroleum diesel. 

Edited December 26, 2019 by Mopar1973Man

[Tractorman]

2 hours ago, Mopar1973Man said:

Every time I get to Ontario, OR which is biodiesel required state and it just as high as the highest price diesel in Idaho. New Meadows is 3.399 a gallon and Ontario is 3.459. Then if I stop in Payette, ID I get super low price of 3.299 a gallon. When I tested biodiesel from Ontario I took a loss in MPG's always did better with petroleum diesel. 

 

It is always interesting to see such differences in fuel prices just a few miles apart.  Prices for B5 diesel fuel is currently $3.32 /gal at three different stations in Baker City, just 70 miles north of Ontario.  Price for B20 in John Day is $3.03 /gal, B5 - $3.40 /gal and for B20 at Safeway in Molalla, Or is $3.00 /gal and B5 - $3.40 /gal at other nearby stations.  Safeway only sells B20. 

 

It is the B20 in both mentioned locations that is giving me improved fuel economy.  You have to remember that I am making my comparisons from B5 diesel (mandated in Oregon) to B20 diesel.  I will be monitoring the differences more closely in the future. 

 

Was the tested Biodiesel from Oregon B5 or B20?  Have you ever tested B20?  I think you are comparing Oregon mandated B5 diesel to Idaho regular diesel, so likely we are not making like comparisons being that regular diesel anywhere in Oregon is B5.

 

- John

[Mopar1973Man]

Me its about the monthly budget. Currently about $600 to $650 a month in fuel to keep Mom going to dialysis. Then you break it down and figure the cost per mile 0.16 to 0.19 cents per mile. Then when looking at fuel prices...

 

On 12/26/2019 at 9:03 AM, Tractorman said:

Price for B20 in John Day is $3.03 /gal, B5 - $3.40 /gal and for B20 at Safeway in Molalla, Or is $3.00 /gal and B5 - $3.40 /gal at other nearby stations.

 

10 gallon price - I use this measure more so than price per gallon. I never buy just 1 gallon. Typically 12 to 14 gallons.

John Day - 30.39

Molalla - 30.09 34.09

 

Ontario for me... 

Ontario - 34.59

Payette ID - 32.99

New Meadows 34.59

Riggins - 33.59

 

Cost per mile is a measure also that shows rate of usage vs cost. MPG is only a small window of info.

Edited December 28, 2019 by Mopar1973Man

[Tractorman]

On ‎12‎/‎26‎/‎2019 at 5:35 AM, Mopar1973Man said:

When I tested biodiesel from Ontario I took a loss in MPG's always did better with petroleum diesel.

 

My question (just curious) is:  When you tested the bio-diesel from Ontario, Oregon and took a loss in mpg, was the fuel B5 (the mandated 5% bio-diesel) or was it B20? 

 

The reason I ask is because each time I use B20, which is about 30 cents / gal cheaper, I see an improvement in fuel economy.  I have seen this mpg improvement over several trips during this last year.  Also,  @dripleysaid that he experienced an improvement in fuel economy when he used bio-mass diesel.  These mpg improvements seem to defy the logic that there is less thermal energy in bio-diesel or bio-mass diesel, so what gives?

 

Something that @dripleybrought to my attention - there is bio-diesel and there is bio-mass diesel.  I am assuming that I it is bio-diesel that is sold here in Oregon, but I don't know that for a fact.  I am still trying to find out.

 

- John

[Mopar1973Man]

B5 which most of Ontario runs. Like now I will not use biodiesel is too risky for gelling issues so I can run a new test in the late spring.

[IBMobile]

Some research I did a few years ago on this subject.   

 

Posted March 10, 2016

1.  From U. S. Department of Energy:  Alternative Fuels Data Center:  http://www.afdc.energy.gov/fuels/biodiesel_blends.html

"Pure biodiesel (B100) contains about 8% less energy per gallon than petroleum diesel. For B20, this translates to a 1% to 2% difference, but most B20 users report no noticeable difference in performance or fuel economy."

2.  From U.S. Department of Energy:  National Renewable Energy Laboratory:  100,000-Mile Evaluation of Buses Operated on Biodiesel Blend (20):  http://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy07osti/40128.pdf

"The fuel economy for both petroleum diesel and B20 groups was 4.41 mpg based on in-use fleet data. An approximately 2% reduction in fuel economy for B20 was measured in laboratory emission testing."

3.  From Pacific Biodiesel:  http://www.biodiesel.com/biodiesel/benefits/

"I want my MPG!
Many alternative fuels have difficulty gaining acceptance because they do not provide similar performance to their petroleum counterparts. Pure biodiesel and biodiesel blended with petroleum diesel fuel provide very similar horsepower, torque, and fuel mileage compared to petroleum diesel fuel. In its pure form, typical biodiesel will have an energy content 5%-10% lower than typical petroleum diesel. However it should be noted that petroleum diesel fuel energy content can vary as much as 15% from one supplier to the next. The lower energy content of biodiesel translates into slightly reduced performance when biodiesel is used in 100% form, although users typically report little noticeable change in mileage or performance. When blended with petroleum diesel at B20 levels, there is less than 2% change in fuel energy content, with users typically reporting no noticeable change in mileage or economy.

Superior Lubrication for Your Engine
The injection system of many diesel engines relies on the fuel to lubricate its parts. The degree to which fuel provides proper lubrication is its lubricity. Low lubricity petroleum diesel fuel can cause premature failure of injection system components and decreased performance. Biodiesel provides excellent lubricity to the fuel injection system. Recently, with the introduction of low sulfur and ultra low sulfur diesel fuel, many of the compounds which previously provided lubricating properties to petrodiesel fuel have been removed. By blending biodiesel in amounts as little as 5%, the lubricity of ultra low sulfur diesel can be dramatically improved, and the life of an engine’s fuel injection system extended"

4.  From GAS2:  http://gas2.org/2008/04/10/biodiesel-mythbuster-20-twenty-two-biodiesel-myths-dispelled/#myth7

"FACT: Biodiesel contains about 8.5% less energy per gallon than petroleum diesel. For someone using B20, this means about a 1-2% loss in power, torque, and fuel efficiency. To put things into perspective, that’s about a 2 mph difference on the freeway if you were trying to go 55 mph. Millions of miles of onroad tests (aka trucking) have shown that B20 and diesel are practically indistinguishable. Biodiesel has also been used extensively in heavy-machinery, like tractors, loaders, and agricultural equipment, with no noticeable difference.

B100 users may notice a slight drop in fuel mileage based on the small difference in energy content, but torque and power are usually comparable. I’ve seen a 1-3 mpg drop in fuel efficiency running B100. As an FYI, biodiesel has the highest BTU (energy) content of any alternative fuel (falling somewhere between diesel #1 and #2). Energy content of various fuels (per gallon, low value of range):"

• Regular Diesel Fuel = 128,500 BTUs
• Gasoline = 125,071 BTUs
• Biodiesel = 118,296 BTUs
• Ethanol = 76,000 BTUs

• In conclusion:  in real world testing there is no noticeable change in power or fuel usage with fuel blends of B5 (5% bio-95% petroleum)  to B20 (20% bio-80% petroleum).  B100 (100% biodiesel did show a decrease in performance and fuel economy due to it's lower BTU value.  The added benefit of increased fuel lubricity over the ULS fuel is a plus for the consumer in the form of possible lower maintenance/repair costs 

•  

Edited December 29, 2019 by IBMobile