CJ-4 vs CK-4 diesel oil

[KATOOM]

Excuse my haphazard post if this has already by discussed, but I felt that it would be something us guys with older trucks would care about.  That being the introduction of CK-4 oil replacing CJ-4.  Apparently its an issue for Ford whereby they claim accelerated wear in their engines with this new oil.

 

Anyone have any experience or knowledge of what this new CK-4 classification is all about.....or why it was introduced?  I dont care other than I dont want my "older" engine to wear out for sake of environmentalism.

[NightHawk]

The new classification has been out since Dec 16 and ck-4 is ok by Ford (why does that matter) but the new FA isnt.  The new classification is better as it separates the old and the new, while providing a better product based on lessons learned.  If your concerned then i would run an off road style oil or a small manufacture custom product.  

 

I just did my first oil change with ck-4 and with my normal additive addition its less smelly and less blow by vapor.

[Royal Squire]

What is your normal additive?

[KATOOM]

The classification was created last December 2016 but its supposed introduction date was December 2017.  At least thats what I was reading.....

[dripley]

C-J is what is still on the shelves in my neck of the woods.

[01cummins4ever]

I'm sure it's just a matter of time and it will be on the shelves everywhere. As I understand the oil will be the same viscosity like 15/40 just in the new class of ck-4 specs. From what I have read it may be an improved oil but I guess only time will tell, they tell us it's compatable with older engines but you know how government works, they will tell you  anything just to push it forward, one things for certain it's comming and probably going to cost more.

[CTcummins24V]

http://rotella.shell.com/products/pc-11.html?gclid=CJSz-JqS-tICFQyOaQodkW0Lkg&gclsrc=aw.ds

[NightHawk]

17 hours ago, Royal Squire said:

What is your normal additive?

 

I use a zinc supplementation to get the ppm up for the flat tappet setup and general increase in wear value.  However more is not better, be careful of mix ratios and research has lead me to target 1500ppm which is typical 700-800 higher then the oil on the shelves.

 

13 hours ago, dripley said:

C-J is what is still on the shelves in my neck of the woods.

 

I can buy either, research showed ck-4 to have improvements based on lessons learned and improvements in chemistry.  I only drive about 4-5k a year being a 2nd rig so i keep a close eye on color changes. i check the fluids every first startup after sitting more then 48hrs and not afraid to ditch if it starts darkening quickly.

[Dieselfuture]

@NightHawk has your oil just gotten darker over a few day period,  I'm a bit confused. If I only put five to seven thousand miles on my truck a year, then I change oil and filters only once a year. Sometimes it sits for a few months and I've never experienced that the oil all the sudden gets dark. Is this because of extra additives you're putting in causing this reaction. Or I misunderstood your post altogether.

I do have a bypass filter that the May help with that situation, but not sure if it would be related.

Edited March 29, 2017 by Dieselfuture

[dripley]

If I changed my oil every time it got dark I would be changing 8 times a year. Mine darkens within 3k miles of changing it or less.

[KATOOM]

Over the years I've found that many people are misinformed about engine oil and what its doing and why it looks the way it looks.

 

dripley, I agree.....  If I changed my oil based on color then I'd be changing it far too often since it can be pretty dark within a few thousand miles.  This isnt because its "cooked" or sludgy either but rather because oil collects and suspends contaminants (soot/particles) which are created during combustion and/or oxidation.  Totally normal for detergent oil.  And used oil thats still amber colored is NOT always a sign that things are working correctly.

 

And to make the situation more confusing, a turbo engine will contaminate the oil through combustion faster due to the lack of cylinder pressure during idle and mild around town driving.

The oil in this truck was turning darker really fast during the first 75k miles or so.  Then after that it tends to remain more amber colored but still is black by 5000 miles.  I starter towing heavier and more often with it during those later miles too.....

Dang it, I'm hijacking my own thread.

[Mopar1973Man]

Don't feel back I know guys that I've talked to on the phone that admit to changing oil every 2,000 miles because they think black oil or sooty oil is bad on the engine. 

[dripley]

4 hours ago, KATOOM said:

Dang it, I'm hijacking my own thread.

And doing it quite well I might add.

[KATOOM]

I'll take that as a compliment.....

[jlbayes]

On 3/29/2017 at 7:41 AM, dripley said:

If I changed my oil every time it got dark I would be changing 8 times a year. Mine darkens within 3k miles of changing it or less.

 

Green truck changes color on the first test drive after fresh oil. Over fueled is extremely hard on it.

Edited March 30, 2017 by jlbayes

[KATOOM]

So basically I'm presuming that given the limited data I can find or hear regarding, there is very little understanding of CK-4, and/or no experience with how it will treat older motors.  As I started this thread, I don't have anything against new specifications as long as it doesn't prove to be detrimental to my older truck engine.

[dave110]

Would an oil analysis show anything worth while? Run some CJ and test it and then some CK and compare. Just a thought.

[dripley]

I did not do alot of in depth reading on the CK-4 but seemed what I did read said the CK-4 was backward compatible to ALL engines. It seems we have survived other oil specification changes so I dont see why we wont survive this one. The way I read it, it might even be an improvement. That being said I am still not an oil expert by any means.

[dave110]

That's normally how it works, but I'm skeptical now also. The EPA would love to have our old vehicles off the road but they don't want to die. One way to kill them would be to force us to drink the kool aid in the form of a new oil that lacks something our engines need, or adds more of something they don't.

[KATOOM]

2 hours ago, dave110 said:

That's normally how it works, but I'm skeptical now also. The EPA would love to have our old vehicles off the road but they don't want to die. One way to kill them would be to force us to drink the kool aid in the form of a new oil that lacks something our engines need, or adds more of something they don't.

 

Winner winner chicken dinner.

 

I know I tend to lean towards conspiratorial type stuff.....but trying to remain calm and collected, as I mentioned before, I dont want my truck to fall short just because the EPA is mandating fuels/lubricants based on the most current technology with no consideration of anything pre-existing.