Towing EGT's

[Bobalos]

I just  got a new Dune Buggy that is a good bit larger/heavier than my old one, & the last time I came went out to the desert I noticed that my EGT's were a big higher than they  used to be. There are only a few 1/2 mile to 1 mile long stretches that it really gets up there & this last time I just simply took my foot out of it & slowed the whole rig down.  that REALLY kills the momentum going over the mountain though...........  

 

Id like to get some ideas of what you guys have used to reduce EGT's.  

 

thanks

Bob

 

[TFaoro]

10 minutes ago, Bobalos said:

I just  got a new Dune Buggy that is a good bit larger/heavier than my old one, & the last time I came went out to the desert I noticed that my EGT's were a big higher than they  used to be. There are only a few 1/2 mile to 1 mile long stretches that it really gets up there & this last time I just simply took my foot out of it & slowed the whole rig down.  that REALLY kills the momentum going over the mountain though...........  

 

Id like to get some ideas of what you guys have used to reduce EGT's.  

 

thanks

Bob

 

What are you considering "high" for egts?

What RPM are you running at?

What mods are done to the truck? Or is it stock?

Edited March 2, 2018 by TFaoro

[Bobalos]

after I saved the post I realized that my signature was not quite complete.  

 

Nothing special about this truck simply replacement parts.  the only thing not stock is the 275 injectors & the Blue Chip pump (which is a replacement pump with a little more timing for mileage).  

 

When I have it in OD, on the flat lands its running around 2000 RPM @ 65 to 70 MPH & around 900* to 1000*

 

When Im headed over the mountain I drop it down into 3rd & for the most part its @ around 2100 RPM & around 900*

 

When I get into those 2 or 3 spots where the incline really shoots up there, I put my foot into it & it stays around 2000 to 2200 RPM but the EGT's get upwards of 1200* or so.  

 

thanks

Bob

 

Edited March 2, 2018 by Bobalos

[Me78569]

those egt's are nothing to worry about.    If you don't have a boost elbow and a boost fooler you might consider it.   that will give you a bit more air / or a tuner that does boost fooling.

Edited March 2, 2018 by Me78569

[TFaoro]

16 minutes ago, Bobalos said:

after I saved the post I realized that my signature was not quite complete.  

 

Nothing special about this truck simply replacement parts.  the only thing not stock is the 275 injectors & the Blue Chip pump (which is a replacement pump with a little more timing for mileage).  

 

When I have it in OD, on the flat lands its running around 2000 RPM @ 65 to 70 MPH & around 900* to 1000*

 

When Im headed over the mountain I drop it down into 3rd & for the most part its @ around 2100 RPM & around 900*

 

When I get into those 2 or 3 spots where the incline really shoots up there, I put my foot into it & it stays around 2000 to 2200 RPM but the EGT's get upwards of 1200* or so.  

 

thanks

Bob

 

You're just cleaning the carbon off. Nothing to worry about there.

If you do start to push above 1250 and near 1300, drop a gear, keep the converter locked, and keep pushing. Above 2k will help keep the egts down. 

[Bobalos]

I agree with you guys, Im not pushing anything right now.  However as it stands now, Im standing on an egg & keeping the throttle very steady.  if I come up on slow traffic Im hosed.  on this drive, I have to keep the momentum up & be able to pass the slow trucks (20 to 30 MPH) or Im completely hosed.   Im SURE that if I was not careful with the gas peddle I could be @ or over 1300 w/o too much effort.  1175 to 1200 is where I start to get itchy.  I dont mind it for 20 or 30 seconds, but longer than that & I either back out of it, or knock it down a gear (if Im in OD I go down to 3rd.  if Im in 3rd, I just simply slow down).  Im looking to give myself a little more breathing room.  

 

The only place to go from 3rd is to second & the MPH would drop a LOT & the converter will not lock up in 2nd so the trans fluid would get darn hot...........  

 

I forgot that I do have a boost fooler in the truck (went through 4 different brands before I found one that actually worked & would not set the CEL).  Years ago I bought a boost elbow & did not like the way it worked in the RPM range & that it would creep all over the place, so I made my own boost adjuster & while it works well, I have to rev the motor up to get it to give me boost > 20 Lbs.   I recently bought an adjustable WG linkage that I have yet to put onto the truck.  just been too busy with other things.  Maybe its time to pull the turbo off & put this guy on there............  ideally I could get more boost down lower in the RPM band.  

 

 

I did some searching around & it does not appear that anyone has posted about H2O injection in quite some time.  Does anyone know of anyone using it to knock down EGT's for short spurts???

 

thanks again folks.

 

Bob

 

 

 

and FWIW, if any of you guys have driven from San Diego to Arizona on the 8 freeway, this is the drive Im talking about.  its 0 to 4200' & back down again.   there are a good number of 1000' climbs & drops in there once you get towards the top of the mountain.  

 

Im guessing Im right @ 10,000 to 10,500 in the trailer.  In the I have 4 bodies, full tank of fuel, 40 gallons of gas & 10 gallons of water in the bed.  

Edited March 2, 2018 by Bobalos

[Mopar1973Man]

Personally...

 

Upgrade to a Quadzilla so you can manage your fuel and timing. The stock timing is going to produce more EGT's because of its amount of retard timing while loaded. Then the fueling map you can control to prevent the over fuel and excessive heat on the top end. The other thing would be upgrade from the HY35 turbo to HX35 the exhaust housing on the HX is 12 cm² which will reduce EGT's too. 

 

 

 

[015point9]

Yes...hard climb.  I think going west is worst.  With 8k trailer I end up watching trying not to go over 1200-1250.  I usually don't care about going over those temps but hill is so long, I don't like that high over a long period of time.  

Edited March 2, 2018 by 015point9

[Bobalos]

Mike,

 

Ive often thought about putting a box in it, however................ Im in the republic of Kalipornia, & not only do I have to "smog" the truck every 2 years, if I get pulled over they can do an "onsite visual inspection" which if they find anything questionable, they can force me to go visit the "smog experts" who will determine if I have modified it w/o CARB exemption............. so....... 

 

My options are a Smarty & hope that it actually does not modify the Check Sum so when they plug into the ALDL @ the smog check it will not set off any warnings, or put an Quazilla product in it & remove it every time I goto get it smogged & again hope it has not modified anything to set off the smog computer.  

 

I dont know why, but I thought of the OEM turbo's the one on my 99 was the better of them.  does the HX look just like the HY so they would not get suspicious???  

 

015point9, Yes............ West is definitely worse than east.  I got 10 MPG going east & 9.25 going west.  Mind you when I was going west, it was presidents day weekend & the wind was for the most part going directly east, which made the truck super mad.  once I got into the mountains, it changed to a cross breeze, which made the motor more happy, but looking in the side mirror & seeing the side of the trailer REALLY sucked.............

 

For those that have not seen it, here is my rig.....  they are both old & heavy......  

 

 

And FWIW.........  this is my new buggy (the blue one), I have not weighed it yet, but its pretty portly.  Certainly much heavier than the Vee Wee based one we used to have (actually still have if anyone wants to buy a buggy........).  

and, BTW, that is my son & his GF, Im a good bit older than that.  LOL. 

 

Edited March 2, 2018 by Bobalos

[Mopar1973Man]

24 minutes ago, Bobalos said:

I dont know why, but I thought of the OEM turbo's the one on my 99 was the better of them.  does the HX look just like the HY so they would not get suspicious???

 

The only thing externally is the wastegate controller either has a hose or a solid tube. 

 

 

 

24 minutes ago, Bobalos said:

 

My options are a Smarty & hope that it actually does not modify the Check Sum so when they plug into the ALDL @ the smog check it will not set off any warnings, or put an Quazilla product in it & remove it every time I goto get it smogged & again hope it has not modified anything to set off the smog computer.  

 

Quadzilla doesn't modify anything on the ECM. It only modifies the communication to the VP44. You can setup the Quadzilla as a CANBus only and no wire tap. Still be able to tune the fuel and timing without any modification to the ECM software at all. 

 

Smarty on the other hand if it not returned to stock then there is a change in the checksum. It should return to stock and not leave a footprint at all. 

 

But comparing prices of both I hate to say it but I would suggest the Quadzilla to the Smarty. Quadzilla will produce more HP/TQ vs. the Smarty. Tuning is WAY EASIER on the Quadzilla compared to the Smarty. Smarty Touch for the 24V is still just a 60 HP tuner.

 

180 HP Quadzilla ($675) - https://www.dieselautopower.com/quadzilla-power-1998-5-2000-dodge-5-9l-cummins-adrenaline-with-iquad

 

60 HP Smarty Touch ($865) - https://smartyresource.com/store/product/39-smarty-touch/

 

Price wise Quadzilla still better...

 

Edited March 2, 2018 by Mopar1973Man

[01cummins4ever]

@Bobalos with the egt numbers you stated and the grades and weight you are pretty much on par with a stocker and with your driving habits you seem to be keeping it within acceptable temps. Not much improvement unless you start dumping money and installing mods, just got to ask yourself how much. 

I am doing about the same as you on my stock truck with a slightly built 47re, not much difference in my temps compared to yours, I run on the otherside of AZ. off the Mogollan Rim about 7500 ft. Down to 1500 ft. In the tonto basin. In a few 6-7 % grades 4-6 miles long. This year I plan on installing the rv275 along with the quad Xzt and play around with the waste gate mod, My EGT May increase, idk. we’ll see. Just have to control it with the right foot. In the future, when I upgrade my trans the mods may increase to larger sticks, and turbo and possibly a quad adrenaline but for now I gotta baby my fragile 47re trying to get it to last a while longer.

 

This is what I drag down from Colorado every spring , grossing about 19k 

[Bobalos]

1 hour ago, Mopar1973Man said:

 

The only thing externally is the wastegate controller either has a hose or a solid tube. 

 

 

 

 

Quadzilla doesn't modify anything on the ECM. It only modifies the communication to the VP44. You can setup the Quadzilla as a CANBus only and no wire tap. Still be able to tune the fuel and timing without any modification to the ECM software at all. 

 

Smarty on the other hand if it not returned to stock then there is a change in the checksum. It should return to stock and not leave a footprint at all. 

 

But comparing prices of both I hate to say it but I would suggest the Quadzilla to the Smarty. Quadzilla will produce more HP/TQ vs. the Smarty. Tuning is WAY EASIER on the Quadzilla compared to the Smarty. Smarty Touch for the 24V is still just a 60 HP tuner.

 

180 HP Quadzilla ($675) - https://www.dieselautopower.com/quadzilla-power-1998-5-2000-dodge-5-9l-cummins-adrenaline-with-iquad

 

60 HP Smarty Touch ($865) - https://smartyresource.com/store/product/39-smarty-touch/

 

Price wise Quadzilla still better...

 

Right now Im @ 24Lbs of boost, with the RPM's up >2000 RPM & the load on the motor high-ish.  Do you think that getting more boost out of it, lower in the RPM band would help the EGT issue?  

 

IIRC the turbo that is in it now, is pretty efficient up to 30 - 34 Lbs, then it starts to drop off.  would I see EGT Gains by taking the boost up to 30 Lbs?

 

the AR on the turbine larger on the HX compared to the HY?  what is different between them that the HX is a better choice?? 

 

Here is the issue with the Quadzilla, with what just happened to Jegs the other day, Im sure they wont even ship it into CA and I would have to take it out every time I take it into get it smog checked or risk having to take it back another day.  Who knows...... Depends on where I take it.......  some look & some dont.  I got a bunch of **** for having a disconnected pump on my frame rail a few years ago........  I told him to trace the lines & he could see that the in went to the out.........  

*CARB NOTICE: QUADZILLA TUNERS AND ELECTRONICS ARE NOT FOR SALE OR USE IN CALIFORNIA AND OTHER CARB STATES.

 

thanks for the options I appreciate the input!!!  

 

Bob

 

@01cummins4ever, sounds like you & I are in the same area.  your obviously towing more than I am, and have a bit more truck than I do.  Id like to be able to get back to not being @ the mercy of every Semi on the road....  

 

Bob

 

[Dieselfuture]

Have you checked for boost leaks

 

 

 

 

[Bobalos]

yes & no.  I replaced all of the boots a couple of years ago & did not find anything stupid then, however I dont really know if the IC is leaking or not.  Im not sure how I would do that other than to remove it & have it pressure tested.  I suppose I could disconnect the boots & make some kind of caps & do a leak check on it.  

 

How much leak is OK over what period of time?  

thanks

Bob

 

[notlimah]

If that’s the pic of your turbo with the spring attached to the waste gate and the turbo is actually an HX (use moparmans pic for reference), then you need to remove that and get a boost elbow and attach it to the hose in front. That could be why you’re not seeing the boost numbers you’d expect. I can get abiut 28psi with an HX, boost elbow and old stock injectors.

[Bobalos]

@notlimah, yes that  is a picture of my turbo & that little mechanism works pretty darn well.  I did not want to get the boost any higher than 25 lbs, which is where I set it to.  if I crank the nut down to the bottom of the adjuster I can get it up to 27 or 28, but it really needs a stronger spring, to run up @ 30 & be adjustable.  The thing I dont like about it is that the motor has to be up in the RPM's (>2100) for it to have that kind of boost. 

 

I used a boost elbow quite some time ago & the boost was not repeatable.  it would be one thing one day & another thing another day & it would creep all over the place, going down the road & what I thought was a steady load.  Maybe I was doing something wrong or it was plugged up or something, dunno for sure.  maybe I should try it again & see what happens. 

 

I bought one of the adjustable WG linkages some time ago, but have not made the time to try it out.  I suppose I should get off of my butt & do that & see where it takes me.  

 

Do you think if I get the boost up towards 30Lbs that would help out the EGT issue?  

 

thanks again folks

Bob

 

[Mopar1973Man]

Might just have to do a black market buy on a used Quadzilla... 

[Dieselfuture]

Any boost leak is bad, I would double check to be sure. Make something up to go on turbo with an air fitting and pressurize the whole system, go around with spray bottle and some dish soap. 30 PSI is nothing to be scared of and should help with power.

[Bobalos]

thanks Gents,

 

I think I have a direction now.  not sure how far it will get me, but it will get me moving in some direction.  

 

to be honest, Im not looking for any more power, the thing works just fine.  Id just like to be able to use it all & with the EGT's up there where it is, its not usable.  

 

thanks

Bob

BTW, ....... I looked into that Quadzilla & I have to say the marketing on the  diesel stuff sucks.......... (not just the Quadzilla stuff) the information they give you & what they do & do not tell you is terrible.  

 

in small print it says "screen not included".  does that mean that the thing in the red circle does not come with it??  what the hell is the thing in the picture?  it looks like an I-Phone.  If that does not come with it , then what the hell am I supposed to use?  what are the specs on the "screen" that Im supposed to use with it?  

 

@ the top it says "Desired Tune".  My answer to that would be "the right one" or "the best tune possible for my truck".............. How am I supposed to know?  or better yet, how are they supposed to know?  Down further it says "Adrenaline devices will now ship with the V2 Tuning for adrenaline standard".  does that counter the selection I made above that does not make any sense to me?  

I guess I need to search through Youtube & see if anyone there has one in a truck that explains what it does & how it does it...........  that should set me back another 2 or 3 hours  trying to figure out if it is what I want/need........  

 

[\rant]

 

[Mopar1973Man]

Any Android phone or tablet or iPhone or Apple tablet. No, the screen does not come with it. Like myself, I use my cellphone for my display. The nice part is you are NOT required to use your device every time you drive the truck. Once you are set up Quadzilla will still operate as usual without a display. This makes it better than the Smarty. So if you have a roadside inspection. There is nothing in the cab that scream tuner. If you do the install clean for the Quadzilla box and hide it well, it will not be noticed. 

 

 

So like Edge Juice and Smarty both require to have a display. This is a dead give away to a law enforcement officer doing a road side inspection. Even in my truck I've got a gooseneck stand for my cellphone. You could easily just shut the app down for the Quadzilla and it just looks like a cellphone. Again none the wiser.

 

 

Like here is the Smarty Touch... This is kind of a dead give away you've got a tuner if you got the screen in the corner of the windshield and cables ran down the dash. Quadzilla only has 1 wire ran into the cab which is the key-on sense.

 

Edited March 2, 2018 by Mopar1973Man