The 2nd Gen Rejuvenate (Stock +)

[Mopar1973Man]

1 hour ago, Michaelsloft said:

I thought I saw in another thread that you are using a 50wt synthetic transmission oil and wondering if you are still running a 50wt?

 

Yes, sir. 70,000 miles and no issues. I check the fluid level at 60k miles and the color was still clean like out of the bucket. I'll be doing a fluid change at 100k miles. I kind of feel it will be early...

 

1 hour ago, Michaelsloft said:

Looked into getting 50wt at my local Napa and it was very expensive for a 5 gallon container.

 

No it's not. If you look at the factory lube at $27 a quart from a Dodge Dealer... That's $108 for a gallon. I bought a 5 gallon bucket for bit over $200.00. Napaonline is $245 a 5 gallon bucket. $49 a gallon. $12.25 a quart. It's nearly half the price of the factory fluid. 

[Michaelsloft]

4 minutes ago, Mopar1973Man said:

No it's not. If you look at the factory lube at $27 a quart from a Dodge Dealer... That's $108 for a gallon. I bought a 5 gallon bucket for bit over $200.00. Napaonline is $245 a 5 gallon bucket. $49 a gallon. $12.25 a quart. It's nearly half the price of the factory fluid. 

No it's not??  I never mentioned 'factory fluid" or Dodge dealer pricing in my reply??  $12.25 per quart is significantly more expensive than the Pennzoil I mentioned & $7.49 online pricing?  $49 per gallon is expensive a gallon when purchasing 5 gallons!  Wow.  It is getting late here in Ohio.  Thanks for your input.

16 minutes ago, dripley said:

I guess mine can be notchy, if you mean it seems to pause in neutral while shifting. Mine does to a degree but I have grown used to it. But if I want to shift quick I can do that, just requires some thought. The NV5600 is a big tranny and I never expected it to shift like a sports car but it is fun to try. I personally will stick with the Pennzoil.

I don't expect it to shift like a sports car and never have tried to shift like a sports car.  I'm discussing how overall smooth it is and how quiet it sounds rolling down the interstate etc. The difference between the Pennzoil, Redline MTL & Mt-90 are there.  It is subtle, but noticeable.  I enjoy the heavy weight of the NV5600 gears and the time it takes to shift and match revs shifting up & down.  And on occasion I will double clutch to be certain revs are matched.  The NV5600 is a good transmission and will last a long time if shifted carefully.  Original clutch and transmission at 253,000 and hoping to get many more miles with proper maintenance and patient-proper shifting.  Hope your lasts as long as you want it too as well.  Thanks for the input.

[Mopar1973Man]

8 minutes ago, Michaelsloft said:

Pennzoil I mentioned & $7.49 online pricing?

 

I don't know if it meets the requirements.  

Edited April 25, 2018 by Mopar1973Man

[Michaelsloft]

3 minutes ago, Mopar1973Man said:

I don't know if it meets the requirements.  

Seriously?

 

http://www.pennzoil.com/en_us/products/other-oils-fluids-fuel/manual-transmission-fluids-axle-oils/synchromesh-manual-transmission-fluid.html#iframe=L3NvcHVzL3Blbm56b2lsLzIwMTZuZXdzbGV0dGVyLz9sb2NhbGU9ZW5fdXM=

23 minutes ago, Mopar1973Man said:

Yes, sir. 70,000 miles and no issues. I check the fluid level at 60k miles and the color was still clean like out of the bucket. I'll be doing a fluid change at 100k miles. I kind of feel it will be early...

 

I'm considering some 50wt synthetic GL-4 and will most likely try Mobil 1, Valvoline or maybe the Lucas 50wt synthetic truck transmission oil.  Makes sense that a quality heavy duty 50wt oil would work well in the NV transmissions.

Thanks for the input and your experience with miles driven etc.  

[Ben]

4 hours ago, Michaelsloft said:

Seriously?

 

http://www.pennzoil.com/en_us/products/other-oils-fluids-fuel/manual-transmission-fluids-axle-oils/synchromesh-manual-transmission-fluid.html#iframe=L3NvcHVzL3Blbm56b2lsLzIwMTZuZXdzbGV0dGVyLz9sb2NhbGU9ZW5fdXM=

I'm considering some 50wt synthetic GL-4 and will most likely try Mobil 1, Valvoline or maybe the Lucas 50wt synthetic truck transmission oil.  Makes sense that a quality heavy duty 50wt oil would work well in the NV transmissions.

Thanks for the input and your experience with miles driven etc.  

 

You guys are talking about fluid for 2 different transmissions. 

 

The Pennzoil meets the requirements for the 5600 but Mike is stating not sure about the 4500 requirements. 

 

I have had good luck running oem fluid in the 5600. Tried Redline MTL a long time ago but the tranny temps really rose with that. 

[dripley]

The only time either of  my transmissions was noisy was when I had the Valair clutch in in the second one. A lot gear roll over noise. Not peep out of it with the South Bend that's in it now. 

[Mopar1973Man]

There is always been a weird difference between the two NV4500 and the NV5600. I know that are both based on carbon fiber syncros as the limitation. Knowing that much from the study I invested in the NV4500 I know the fluid has to be GL-4 Synthetic (hence the cost). PennzOil doesn't specify viscosity or GL rating. That why I'm scratching my head. Again I know the NV4500 is 75w-80 fluid synthetic GL-4. As for NV5600 I've never really studied it in depth nor no the actually specs exactly. Kind of like PennzOil and Mopar...

 

Quote

Chrysler manual transmission fluid specification MS-9224 is also met. 

 

Again no specifications of viscosity or GL rating... 

 

Again Dodge has done some weird crap. Like the newer 3rd gen 6 speed running on ATF+4. Then going backward to the older Getrag 5 speeds running on 5w-30 synthetic ENGINE oil (weird, no GL fluid at all). So I'm not going to call out specifications nor do I know all of then either. Just I know there is a lot of weird specs when it comes to the transmissions. Some of them you can bend and others you can't. Same token take note the two transmissions above have had shorter lifespans because of fluid limitations. So a lot of people gone there own direction and skipped specification which now makes this clear as mud.

 

Being I did the study work on the NV4500 I know why the change in fluids and the design. It was because the Cummins was getting the gear teeth too hot and popping the teeth off the gear hence why the Castrol Syntorque fluid was created. Viscosity is not a factor on the NV4500. The only factor I know for sure is that the fluid must be a GL-4 Synthetic to keep the carbon fibers from breaking down also meet the gear teeth problem. That kind of hangs with me being both NV4500 and NV5600 both have carbon fiber syncro. Right or wrong that just where my mind hangs on is those carbon syncros. 

 

Beyond the syncros both transmissions are just steel parts on a shaft with bearings. Hence my thought on it.

[Michaelsloft]

3 hours ago, dripley said:

The only time either of  my transmissions was noisy was when I had the Valair clutch in in the second one. A lot gear roll over noise. Not peep out of it with the South Bend that's in it now. 

Not discussing noise, just subtle differences in how the transmission sound when rolling down the road.  If you listen carefully the transmissions sound differently under light load, medium load & heavy load in different gears and oil.  I try to run what gives the best overall feel, quietness under the most conditions and best MPG.  

13 minutes ago, Mopar1973Man said:

So a lot of people gone there own direction and skipped specification which now makes this clear as mud.

Yep.  Seems to be how it is with transmission oil.  

 

 

[Mopar1973Man]

From my experience now. The thicker the viscosity the less gear rollover noise it should produce. This does come at a cost of some MPG. Yeah, 50 weight is a bit more like 90 weight. With the old Dealer fluid I use to get a lot of gear rollover noise running upgrades low in the RPM spectrum. No longer an issue with the 50 weight transmission fluid. This is why I welcome some transmission temperature. 

 

 

 

 

[Michaelsloft]

2 minutes ago, Mopar1973Man said:

From my experience now. The thicker the viscosity the less gear rollover noise it should produce. This does come at a cost of some MPG. Yeah, 50 weight is a bit more like 90 weight. With the old Dealer fluid I use to get a lot of gear rollover noise running upgrades low in the RPM spectrum. No longer an issue with the 50 weight transmission fluid. This is why I welcome some transmission temperature. 

This has been my experience too.  And I have found when using the Red Line Mt-90 has added some temperature which has been good for my application.  From what you have added here I'm even more inclined to give Synthetic 50wt GL-4 transmission oil a try.

Thanks for the details.

[KATOOM]

3 hours ago, dripley said:

The only time either of  my transmissions was noisy was when I had the Valair clutch in in the second one. A lot gear roll over noise. Not peep out of it with the South Bend that's in it now. 

 

Interesting.....  The only reason I could think of one would have less roll over than the other is overall tension of the disc springs.

[Michaelsloft]

15 minutes ago, KATOOM said:

Interesting.....  The only reason I could think of one would have less roll over than the other is overall tension of the disc springs.

It is interesting and have seen this mentioned a few times while lurking on forums over the years.  No experience with anything other than a stock clutch myself and would like to learn more.

[JAG1]

1 hour ago, Mopar1973Man said:

There is always been a weird difference between the two NV4500 and the NV5600. I know that are both based on carbon fiber syncros as the limitation. Knowing that much from the study I invested in the NV4500 I know the fluid has to be GL-4 Synthetic (hence the cost). PennzOil doesn't specify viscosity or GL rating. That why I'm scratching my head. Again I know the NV4500 is 75w-80 fluid synthetic GL-4. As for NV5600 I've never really studied it in depth nor no the actually specs exactly. Kind of like PennzOil and Mopar...

 

 

Again no specifications of viscosity or GL rating... 

 

Again Dodge has done some weird crap. Like the newer 3rd gen 6 speed running on ATF+4. Then going backward to the older Getrag 5 speeds running on 5w-30 synthetic ENGINE oil (weird, no GL fluid at all). So I'm not going to call out specifications nor do I know all of then either. Just I know there is a lot of weird specs when it comes to the transmissions. Some of them you can bend and others you can't. Same token take note the two transmissions above have had shorter lifespans because of fluid limitations. So a lot of people gone there own direction and skipped specification which now makes this clear as mud.

 

 

Don't know if this is pertinent, but Source Automotive couldn't understand how I got around 425k miles out of an original Getrag 5 spd trans. All I did was change the oil about every 50,000 using regular 30wt engine oil ea. time.

[dripley]

1 hour ago, KATOOM said:

 

Interesting.....  The only reason I could think of one would have less roll over than the other is overall tension of the disc springs.

The disc springs are different. Here they are.

 

TheValair

 

The SB.

 

As far as noise all I have ever heard out of mine was the gear roll over noise with Valair and 4th in the original started whining some before it got stuck. The only other thing I seem to hear is the Cummins.

 

I looked into the Pennzoil Syncromesh way back when and it says it meets the Mopar specs and a lot folks were using it with success and still do. I am comfortable with it. A lot of folks use different oils with success also. As stated it is as clear as mud.

[Michaelsloft]

48 minutes ago, dripley said:

I looked into the Pennzoil Syncromesh way back when and it says it meets the Mopar specs and a lot folks were using it with success and still do. I am comfortable with it. A lot of folks use different oils with success also. As stated it is as clear as mud

Yes, it absolutely does meet specs and is well proven to work successfully.  I have found it works best in my truck when air temperatures are above 60 degrees F.  The additional viscosity of the Red Line Mt-90 synthetic has proven to be best for me for all conditions so far,,,,,considering the 50wt from what has been said.  

 

Thanks for the clutch pics and details!

 

[KATOOM]

10 hours ago, dripley said:

The disc springs are different. Here they are.

 

As far as noise all I have ever heard out of mine was the gear roll over noise with Valair and 4th in the original started whining some before it got stuck. The only other thing I seem to hear is the Cummins.

 

Agreed they're different...  But I guess I should have been more clear in saying that I gained noticeable gear rollover after installing my SB.  You experienced opposite.  Thats where I find it interesting.

 

 

12 hours ago, Michaelsloft said:

It is interesting and have seen this mentioned a few times while lurking on forums over the years.  No experience with anything other than a stock clutch myself and would like to learn more.

 

Gear rollover is the noise transmitted through the gear faces as they clash together from the harmonic pulsing of the engine.  It can sound horrible, but thankfully harmless.  Most factory clutch systems incorporate a dual mass flywheel and/or disc springs specific to absorbing those pulses so as keeping any gear noise to a minimum.

 

Aftermarket clutches are built with added strength and holding capacity in mind, not audible differences considered.  Its very common to experience gear roll over with an aftermarket clutch during lower RPM driving. 

Edited April 26, 2018 by KATOOM

[dripley]

I know a good while back I heard of folks putting LS diff additive into the 5600 and claimed good results. Know one I knew at the time had any comment on it so I never tried it. I think I might just for the heck of it before the next  trans oil change just to see if makes any difference. Just not sure of long term affects on the internalls.

[Dieselfuture]

I was always warned about synchros in nv5600 and was told by a very reputable shop to use penzoil synchromesh, they use it on anything that is in question to avoid synchro failure, and that's where I learned to put at least an extra qt in, I'm using more like 2.5 extra and still looking down through shifter hole in can barely see fluid. Currently I'm using amsoil fluid, seems to be doing fine, the only problem I have is my 3rd gear when it's cold doesn't like to go in, but fine when wormes up. I have an aftermarket clutch of unknown put it by po and when tranny is up to temp it raddles, when I push in the clutch noise goes away, I was told it's because of clutch ( no springs in disk maybe ). Some day I'll find out.

[Ben]

Another point in case today about the looks of a 2nd gen. 

 

I pulled into the Fleet store parking lot. Let the truck cool down and started walking in. 

 

A guy walked up to me, commented on how you don't see nice old Cummins around any more, and started asking questions. 

 

2nd person in under a week.

[KATOOM]

To all those not paying attention to whats going on these days...  The 2nd gen trucks are becoming well sought after vehicles.  So much so that not only are people paying high dollar for them.....but thieves are after them in particular.  If your 2nd gen is truly well taken care of then dont underestimate the chances of your truck being eyeballed by someone with no good intentions.