6 Speed manual transmission ~ NV5600 ~ General Questions

[dripley]

Well after hearing for years about how picky the 5600 is on oil I am just reading along and seeingmwhat becomes of this. I run Penzoil in mine since the first change. I have enough at home for one more change and will stick with it for now. I do want to get my spare 5600 rebuilt and figured it was going to Super Stick for the rebuild. So I will just keep reading for now and see what Cody has to say.

[AH64ID]

1 hour ago, LiveOak said:

Yes, Mike.  In your case I agree........but you are using an NV4500.  So far, I am hearing crickets from folks with NV5600.  I left a message for Cody at Super Stick Transmissions with my questions.  I would like to try using the SAE 50 synthetic but unless I can find observations and reports back from folks who are actually using it in their NV5600, I am a bit cautious.  

 

That's my issue as well. 

 

Over 1/3 of my miles are towing at this point in my trucks life. Most of that is in the 18-22K GCW range, and I run about 400 lb/ft of torque over stock so I don't want to be the guinea pig. 

 

I'm curious on what Cody tells you. 

[LiveOak]

OK.  Just got off the phone with Cody at Super Stick Transmissions.  This is what I gathered from speaking with him.  He prefers Red Line MTL especially for cold climates. 

 

https://www.redlineoil.com/mtl-75w80-gl-4-gear-oil

 

I told him that I have a 5 gallon pail of: Pennzoil Synchromesh that I have been using for the past 16 years, 

 

https://www.pennzoil.com/en_us/products/other-oils-fluids-fuel/manual-transmission-fluids-axle-oils/synchromesh-manual-transmission-fluid.html#iframe=L3NvcHVzL3Blbm56b2lsLzIwMTZuZXdzbGV0dGVyLz9sb2NhbGU9ZW5fdXM=

 

Phillips 66 SAE 50 synthetic,

 

http://shop.sclubricants.com/phillips-66-triton-synthetic-transoil-50

 

This might be a possibility

 

https://www.phillips66lubricants.com/product/triton-synthetic-mtf

 

and Amsoil MTL. 

 

https://www.amsoil.com/shop/by-product/transmission-fluid/manual/manual-synchromesh-transmission-fluid-5w-30/

 

I asked him if he had a choice between the SAE 50 synthetic and the Amsoil MTL in my Tennessee climate, what would he go with.  He said Amsoil MTL.  He said that the SAE 50 synthetic works very well in the NV5600 and seems to be best suited to the warmer climate of Texas.  

 

I am going to try the Amsoil MTL in both of our truck's NV5600's.  If I am not real happy with it, I ask Cody if he saw any problem with mixing the Amsoil MTL and the SAE 50 synthetic 50/50 and he said no and that many of his customers try mixing various lubes in search of the magic potion for the NV5600.  The Amsoil meets the MS 9224 spec required for the NV5600 by Dodge, figure I can't go wrong starting off with Amsoil MTL.  The fall back is the 50/50 mix with SAE 50.  

 

Hats off to Cody.  Seems like a real nice guy and was VERY free with sharing his knowledge and information.  

Edited October 22, 2018 by LiveOak

[leety]

Wow so glad I asked what an interesting discussion.  Thanks to everyone for chiming in.

 

I chose Penzoil for my first test because I could get it at my local Napa and it was less expensive.  I have no idea if the fluid was ever changed prior to my owning the truck.  I didn't like the Penzoil I found the funky shifting to worsen so I figured I'd try the AMSOIL.  The funky shifting into 3rd and reverse are not perfect but noticeably improved since then.  I just have to treat the shifter like it's a raw egg, which I would do anyway.  I find shifting with a bit of care makes any transmission last longer.

[Mopar1973Man]

1 hour ago, LiveOak said:

The fall back is the 50/50 mix with SAE 50.

 

I would try a run also in the summer of straight 50 SAE and then let the cool weather come on and see how it reacts. 

[leety]

32 minutes ago, Mopar1973Man said:

 

I would try a run also in the summer of straight 50 SAE and then let the cool weather come on and see how it reacts. 

I think I'll be in a cool area for the rest of the season.  I'll try that in the spring.

[Mopar1973Man]

Just now, leety said:

I think I'll be in a cool area for the rest of the season.  I'll try that in the spring.

 

I'm going to be in the freeze for the rest of the season. (low of 19*F now).

[LiveOak]

I picked up a 5 gallon pail of Red Line MTL 75W80 part # 50206 for $242.12.  

 

https://sportcompactwarehouse.com/redline-50206-mtl-75w80-gl-4?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI_vjc0IWb3gIVAYTICh1GJAlcEAkYASABEgIifvD_BwE&ymm_gid=1&gsID=pwf240847g1&

 

I have never ordered from these guys so I got a price match from Summit Racing which I DO trust.  

 

I change my transmission oil about every 30K so I will eventually use all of this oil up.  Maybe I will try mixing various amounts.  

[NIsaacs]

13 hours ago, LiveOak said:

I picked up a 5 gallon pail of Red Line MTL 75W80 part # 50206 for $242.12.  

 

https://sportcompactwarehouse.com/redline-50206-mtl-75w80-gl-4?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI_vjc0IWb3gIVAYTICh1GJAlcEAkYASABEgIifvD_BwE&ymm_gid=1&gsID=pwf240847g1&

 

I have never ordered from these guys so I got a price match from Summit Racing which I DO trust.  

 

I change my transmission oil about every 30K so I will eventually use all of this oil up.  Maybe I will try mixing various amounts.  

 

That's a good buy and should be some good oil. I just recently switched to Red Line synthetic power steering fluid, I really like it. I bought a case from Summit. Like the NV5600, Dodge says "only use regular power steering fluid".....Off topic a little but what do you use in your t-case? I still use the recommended ATF+4 but I am thinking, lol  

[Mopar1973Man]

Transfer case I use standard ATF+3. No need for ATF+4 price and all the friction modifier. 

 

[LiveOak]

I put Amsoil Universal ATF synthetic in my t-case many years ago.  Probably have maybe 30K on it.  

[AH64ID]

1 hour ago, LiveOak said:

I put Amsoil Universal ATF synthetic in my t-case many years ago.  Probably have maybe 30K on it.  

 

That's what I use as well. I have about 25K miles on it. 

[Marcus2000monster]

How do you match gears when shifting? I have always just shifted when it felt right. I see some of you like to match gears when you shift. Do you somehow match speed and rpm? How? 

[AH64ID]

30 minutes ago, Marcus2000monster said:

How do you match gears when shifting? I have always just shifted when it felt right. I see some of you like to match gears when you shift. Do you somehow match speed and rpm? How? 

 

Are you talking about floating gears without the clutch?

[Marcus2000monster]

1 hour ago, AH64ID said:

 

Are you talking about floating gears without the clutch?

No that’s how you destroy synchronizers. Maybe that’s what they meant by gear matching? @leety 

[Tractorman]

2 hours ago, Marcus2000monster said:

Do you somehow match speed and rpm? How?

 

I use the throttle to match engine rpm to road speed (for a specific gear).  The rpm matching must be done while the transmission is passing through neutral with the clutch engaged (foot off of the clutch pedal)  When the road speed and engine rpm are matched, then quickly clutch and select the appropriate gear while holding the matching rpm with the throttle.  This procedure works whether upshifting or downshifting. 

 

For example, when I prepare for a downshift, I start easing up on the throttle until the engine is unloaded in reference to the drive train.  I then freeze the throttle position and select neutral without using the clutch pedal.  The gear shifter slides easily into neutral because there is no torque on the gear.   While the transmission is passing through neutral, I raise the engine rpm's to match the downshift gear speed (dictated by road speed) and again freeze the throttle position while clutching and slipping the transmission  into gear, thus competing the downshift.

 

The whole process actually happens q uickly and the results are smooth and seamless shifting.  There is very little wear on the synchronizers or the pilot bearing because the transmission input shaft is rotating at engine speed ant the gear being selected will be matched to road speed.  

 

Back in the 70's, the truck driving school I attended taught the double clutching method, essentially the same as I explained above, but the first clutching would occur when pulling the transmission into neutral.  The rest of the procedure was the same.

 

One thing for sure, if the clutch is disengaged (pedal depressed) while the transmission is passing through neutral during a shift, the transmission input shaft speed will start slowing quickly and cannot be controlled with the throttle.  Consequently, the synchronizer will have to do all of the work to match the gear to road speed.  Also, since the engine and transmission input speeds will not be the same, unnecessary wear will be placed on the pilot bearing.

 

During upshifts because the engine speed and the transmission input shaft speed fall off together naturally,  the complete shift can be made with a single clutch while passing through neutral and timing the next gear selection.  But, this procedure doesn't work for downshifting because the transmission input shaft must be engaged to the engine in order to raise the transmission input shaft speed for the downshift using the throttle. 

 

Hope this helps,

 

- John

Edited October 23, 2018 by Tractorman
I had difficulty spelling "in"

[AH64ID]

My generally downshifts very smooth, but occasionally I'll have to do what you just described with some 4-3 or 3-2 shift but it's VERY rare. 

[Marcus2000monster]

23 minutes ago, Tractorman said:

 

I use the throttle to match engine rpm to road speed (for a specific gear).  The rpm matching must be done while the transmission is passing through neutral with the clutch engaged (foot off of the clutch pedal)  When the road speed and engine rpm are matched, then quickly clutch and select the appropriate gear while holding the matching rpm with the throttle.  This procedure works whether upshifting or downshifting. 

 

For example, when I prepare for a downshift, I start easing up on the throttle until the engine is unloaded in reference to the drive train.  I then freeze the throttle position and select neutral without using the clutch pedal.  The gear shifter slides easily into neutral because there is no torque on the gear.   While the transmission is passing through neutral, I raise the engine rpm's to match the downshift gear speed (dictated by road speed) and again freeze the throttle position while clutching and slipping the transmission  into gear, thus competing the downshift.

 

The whole process actually happens q uickly and the results are smooth and seamless shifting.  There is very little wear on the synchronizers or the pilot bearing because the transmission input shaft is rotating at engine speed ant the gear being selected will be matched to road speed.  

 

Back in the 70's, the truck driving school I attended taught the double clutching method, essentially the same as I explained above, but the first clutching would occur when pulling the transmission into neutral.  The rest of the procedure was the same.

 

One thing for sure, if the clutch is disengaged (pedal depressed) while the transmission is passing through neutral during a shift, the transmission input shaft speed will start slowing quickly and cannot be controlled with the throttle.  Consequently, the synchronizer will have to do all of the work to match the gear to road speed.  Also, since the engine and transmission input speeds will not be the same, unnecessary wear will be placed on the pilot bearing.

 

During upshifts because the engine speed and the transmission input shaft speed fall off together naturally,  the complete shift can be made with a single clutch while passing through neutral and timing the next gear selection.  But, this procedure doesn't work for downshifting because the transmission input shaft must be engaged to the engine in order to raise the transmission input shaft speed for the downshift using the throttle. 

 

Hope this helps,

 

- John

Thanks that’s a great help! I have shifted this way before but obviously I haven’t gotten the rpm and road speed perfectly matched becuase with t resulted in a jerky shift.

Edited October 23, 2018 by Marcus2000monster

[leety]

21 minutes ago, Marcus2000monster said:

Thanks that’s a great help! I have shifted this way before but obviously I haven’t gotten the rpm and road speed perfectly matched becuase with t resulted in a jerky shift.

Not all transmissions like gear matching.  Some love it, some not so much.  My dad's old Toyota company dually flatbed truck loved it.  I basically never used the clutch, except to get off the line in that truck.  I had an old Volvo 122S when the clutch slave failed on it I could drive it all over without the clutch until I got the parts.  Had to get it off the line by starting it in 2nd gear.  Good times LOL

 

I don't think I'd match gears exclusively in the Dodge, but you can combine matching gears and using the clutch.  The two practices are not mutually exclusive.  It's not PURE gear matching, so the shifting will happen either way because you are using the clutch, but the tranny will last longer if you use the clutch and match gears at the same time.  I made the trans in my '02 Porsche Boxster get all the way to 136k miles by driving it like that.  They rarely ever get past 90k miles.  That trans had some engineering failures that make it pop out of 2nd early in life.  I'm going for longevity in my truck so I'll be matching and using the clutch at the same time.

[Dieselfuture]

6 hours ago, AH64ID said:

 

That's what I use as well. I have about 25K miles on it. 

That's what I got in mine also, with about same amount of miles. Still clear and red and smells good that completes my analysis.