CR Injector failures and upset owners

[Guest 04Mach1]

@JAG1 The most likely source of the metal was from the high pressure fuel pump. Most likely cause of the HPFP failing was water in the fuel. We started troubleshooting by testing the frame rail transfer pump which turned out to be putting out 0 psi. We removed the frame rail transfer pump to find the housing full of water and trash. We also noted that it had Napa 33963 fuel filters which are sourced from Wix installed which nowhere resemble the OEM Motorcraft fuel filters. Due to the difference in filter sealing features of the Napa branded filters water and trash got past the frame filter and to the engine mounted filter. Again the Napa / Wix filter did not have OEM type sealing function and water and trash got past the engine mounted fuel filter. The fuel filters had only been installed 3,000 miles before. Now for the fuel, he filled the truck up with fuel at a well known but old Conoco gas station that is only a mile away from our shop the night before failure. We dropped the fuel tank and pumped the fuel out the tank into a white plastic drum. After the fuel settled there was atleast 4 or 5 gallons of water and dirt at the bottom of the drum. He is talking to Napa that sold him the filters and the local Conoco where he bought the bad fuel to see if they will help with the cost of repair. I know this definitely put a sour taste in my mouth towards Napa branded Wix  cartridge type filters. I don't think I'll ever be able to install another Napa filter in a customers vehicle again let alone my own vehicle.

[dripley]

Well that is pretty much crap all the way around there. I wish him luck on getting some help paying for the repairs.

[JAG1]

That is a sad state of affairs and hope people own up to their causing it. I began to be suspect of Wix a couple years ago for no reason other than I saw  they were made in one of the third world countries. Can't remember, but the reason I looked was because the quality seemed to be more light weight or cheap for some reason when picked out of the box. Now even more thankful your sharing this experience.

 

While becoming friends with the pump guy at my local Chevron, he told me that the owner never fills the underground diesel tank full and tries to slowly get rid of whats on the bottom of the tank. Went on to say that I should not be filling up there anymore. I don't know how true that was, but my clear filter bowl used to have some sediment and little bits of water I had to drain off about every two weeks.

 

Edited October 7, 2018 by JAG1

[Guest 04Mach1]

Update on the CR 6.4 Powerjoke. Finally got the customer convinced installing old turbos that were leaking oil was a very bad idea and engine run away would be imminent. I got the new turbos installed and it's running again. Customer stated truck hasn't ran as good as it is now even when it was new. He's not even upset about the cost of over $10k for the repair. 

 

My advice to him was to own and drive the truck for a while longer to recoup some of the repair cost and then sell it. I told him I wouldn't push ownership past another 50k miles.

 

 

[Mopar1973Man]

That's the sad part all the new truck are so darn expensive for repairs any more you need to have a bank loan just to replace turbos. 

[2000Ram2500]

Yea the oem dodge 6.7 turbos are upwards of 4k just for the turbo. Older 6.7s come in around 2300 or so for a turbo. And you should be cleaning your egr systems periodically as well. and change fuel filters constantly. and etc etc. Plus your probably already making payments plus insurance on the truck but "oh its only a 3500 dollar routine maintenance bill".. I cant believe how expensive things have gotten. Shops charging 120+ per hour for labor. Parts marked up like 500% by the time it gets to the end user and its travelled so many miles and passed through so many third parties or middle men that need their cut of the profits.

[Guest 04Mach1]

8 hours ago, 2000Ram2500 said:

Yea the oem dodge 6.7 turbos are upwards of 4k just for the turbo. Older 6.7s come in around 2300 or so for a turbo. And you should be cleaning your egr systems periodically as well. and change fuel filters constantly. and etc etc. Plus your probably already making payments plus insurance on the truck but "oh its only a 3500 dollar routine maintenance bill".. I cant believe how expensive things have gotten. Shops charging 120+ per hour for labor. Parts marked up like 500% by the time it gets to the end user and its travelled so many miles and passed through so many third parties or middle men that need their cut of the profits.

 

Actually independent shops make very little on parts. My shop for instance only marks up parts an average of 20 percent which will equate to an about equal price to parts stores. Now parts stores make a whole lot more mark up than that. For instance Napa probably pays right around a $1.00 for a Napa Gold branded Wix oil filter but sells it off their shelf for around $15.00.

 

Shops have incredible overhead expenses like diagnostic software licensing (tens of thousands dollars a year alone), special tooling, highly qualified mechanics, continual mechanic training for the forever evolving engines, shop equipment, electricity to run the shop equipment, insurance of various types, etc... I can promise you that the $120 a hour my shop charges is stretched pretty thin after everything is paid every month. 

 

Diagnostic software we have to pay for licensing:

Generic Snap-on - Used for light duty vehicles

Cummins In-site

Detroit Diesel Diagnostic Link 8

Volvo/Mack - I believe it's called V-Cads

Paccar Davie

Cat Electronic Technician

International Service Maxx

Eaton Service Ranger

Allison DOC

Wabco ABS diagnostic

Bendix diagnostic

 

All these softwares are required to properly diagnose various manufacturers and the various systems that can be one single vehicle.

 

Say that you have a 2015 Kenworth T680 with a Cummins ISX15, Eaton Ultrashift 10 speed transmission, Wabco ABS system and the transmission is not shifting correctly. You will need Cummins In-site, Eaton Service Ranger, Paccar Davie, and Wabco software to gather all the data from the different systems to properly diagnose the shifting issue with the Eaton Ultrashift 10 speed automated manual transmission.

 

Trust me... Shops are not getting rich.

 

 

[Dieselfuture]

I'm convinced to keep my truck for as long as I can, unless I win a lottery that I don't play 

[Mopar1973Man]

24 minutes ago, Dieselfuture said:

I'm convinced to keep my truck for as long as I can, unless I win a lottery that I don't play 

Join the club...

[AH64ID]

On 9/15/2018 at 11:38 AM, Mopar1973Man said:

 

Just like one guy in Riggins, ID with 318k on the OEM injectors. Just lucky.

 

Then I've seen them right at 112k miles and the injector wipes out an engine.

 

While some fail young it's not uncommon to get lots of miles out of them. 

 

Quality fuel and fuel filters is key. The NAPA off the shelf filters are NOT quality, and don't even meet MIN OEM spec... yet people still run them. 

[2000Ram2500]

12 hours ago, 04Mach1 said:

Actually independent shops make very little on parts.

 

Im not calling out shops on parts sales. I also know every shop is different. I know how rough it is when it comes to the automotive world.

Im talking more the way we get the parts to the customer. Its manufactured, then its packaged, then its distributed, then its stored, then its repackaged if its cummins for chrysler, then its distributed again, then its stored again, then it finally winds up in stores. After passing through all those hands its no wonder things are so expensive since everyone has to get their piece of the pie.

[dripley]

5 hours ago, AH64ID said:

 

While some fail young it's not uncommon to get lots of miles out of them. 

 

Quality fuel and fuel filters is key. The NAPA off the shelf filters are NOT quality, and don't even meet MIN OEM spec... yet people still run them. 

Makes me feel better for all the FRAM filters I ran long ago. But I am very happy with the Donaldson filter I run now. Thanks for the recomendation.

[2000Ram2500]

1 minute ago, dripley said:

Makes me feel better for all the FRAM filters I ran long ago

 

I did the same thing. Ran only FRAM for years then started using wix because the oreillys would give us a good deal on them. Now that im being more and more educated i might have to change over to fleetguard or donaldson

 

Anyone here use baldwin? Thats what we used on the heavy trucks growing up thats all my dad would buy was baldwin filters.

[AH64ID]

6 minutes ago, 2000Ram2500 said:

Anyone here use baldwin? Thats what we used on the heavy trucks growing up thats all my dad would buy was baldwin filters.

 

Two of my 3 fuel filters are Baldwin, the OE canister filter and my initial 20µ filter. The crosses from Donaldson aren't as good. My final fuel filter is either a Fleetguard or a Donaldson, same specs but the Donaldson is cheaper. 

 

I've used a lot of Baldwin filters over the years and for the most part they are good filters. 

[dave110]

8 hours ago, AH64ID said:

The NAPA off the shelf filters are NOT quality, and don't even meet MIN OEM spec... yet people still run them. 

That makes me sad. I thought NAPA was WIX and that WIX was good.  Discussions like this can drive a guy nuts. Kinda like if a butcher told you what went into a hot dog you'd never eat another hot dog again. Until then it tastes pretty good.

[Guest 04Mach1]

I've pretty much gotten to all I'll use on my Cummins pick-ups is Fleetgaurd and sometimes Baldwin, in a pinch I'll settle for Luber Finer. Donaldson air filters are good but I  don't care for their oil and fuel filtration products. For the Ford vehicles I will usually go with Motorcraft, and for the GM vehicles I'll go with AC Delco. I've never been a fan of Fram or the parts store main stock specials like Wix, STP, MicroGard, etc...

[Killer223]

the donaldson dbl7349 is about the best oil filter you an run in these trucks for the price.

[AH64ID]

8 hours ago, 04Mach1 said:

Donaldson air filters are good but I  don't care for their oil and fuel filtration products. 

 

I’m curious why. Their Blue oil filters are unmatched in this, and many, applications and their fuel filters are similar. 

 

That being said, that’s their Blue line and not their standard stuff. I prefer others over Donaldson standard stuff. 

 

Last I looked Donaldson doesn’t even have a air filter for CR’s. 

10 hours ago, dave110 said:

That makes me sad. I thought NAPA was WIX and that WIX was good.  

 

When I called and asked Wix about their specs they told me it was close enough, and a micron is really small. I laughed at the dude and hung up. 

 

Wix often uses a nominal rating to cross to an absolute rating. Absolute is what’s important. 

 

That’s the case with their fuel filters. They have some good oil and applications thou. 

Edited October 17, 2018 by AH64ID

[Mopar1973Man]

33 minutes ago, AH64ID said:

When I called and asked Wix about their specs they told me it was close enough, and a micron is really small

 

[AH64ID]

Don't get me wrong, a micron is REALLY small... but for a company to sell a product that doesn't meet the minimum OEM spec because it's close enough is pretty wrong. 

 

They are simply counting on the average consumer not knowing any better.

 

While all of the 5.9s are now out of factory warranty, they weren't always. It would have been very easy for Dodge to deny any injector warranty claim for anyone who showed up to the dealer with a Wix fuel filter installed. The line in the sand was drawn by Dodge and Wix is on the wrong side.