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Mopar1973Man

CR Injector failures and upset owners

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Yea the oem dodge 6.7 turbos are upwards of 4k just for the turbo. Older 6.7s come in around 2300 or so for a turbo. And you should be cleaning your egr systems periodically as well. and change fuel filters constantly. and etc etc. Plus your probably already making payments plus insurance on the truck but "oh its only a 3500 dollar routine maintenance bill".. I cant believe how expensive things have gotten. Shops charging 120+ per hour for labor. Parts marked up like 500% by the time it gets to the end user and its travelled so many miles and passed through so many third parties or middle men that need their cut of the profits.

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8 hours ago, 2000Ram2500 said:

Yea the oem dodge 6.7 turbos are upwards of 4k just for the turbo. Older 6.7s come in around 2300 or so for a turbo. And you should be cleaning your egr systems periodically as well. and change fuel filters constantly. and etc etc. Plus your probably already making payments plus insurance on the truck but "oh its only a 3500 dollar routine maintenance bill".. I cant believe how expensive things have gotten. Shops charging 120+ per hour for labor. Parts marked up like 500% by the time it gets to the end user and its travelled so many miles and passed through so many third parties or middle men that need their cut of the profits.

 

Actually independent shops make very little on parts. My shop for instance only marks up parts an average of 20 percent which will equate to an about equal price to parts stores. Now parts stores make a whole lot more mark up than that. For instance Napa probably pays right around a $1.00 for a Napa Gold branded Wix oil filter but sells it off their shelf for around $15.00.

 

Shops have incredible overhead expenses like diagnostic software licensing (tens of thousands dollars a year alone), special tooling, highly qualified mechanics, continual mechanic training for the forever evolving engines, shop equipment, electricity to run the shop equipment, insurance of various types, etc... I can promise you that the $120 a hour my shop charges is stretched pretty thin after everything is paid every month. 

 

Diagnostic software we have to pay for licensing:

Generic Snap-on - Used for light duty vehicles

Cummins In-site

Detroit Diesel Diagnostic Link 8

Volvo/Mack - I believe it's called V-Cads

Paccar Davie

Cat Electronic Technician

International Service Maxx

Eaton Service Ranger

Allison DOC

Wabco ABS diagnostic

Bendix diagnostic

 

All these softwares are required to properly diagnose various manufacturers and the various systems that can be one single vehicle.

 

Say that you have a 2015 Kenworth T680 with a Cummins ISX15, Eaton Ultrashift 10 speed transmission, Wabco ABS system and the transmission is not shifting correctly. You will need Cummins In-site, Eaton Service Ranger, Paccar Davie, and Wabco software to gather all the data from the different systems to properly diagnose the shifting issue with the Eaton Ultrashift 10 speed automated manual transmission.

 

Trust me... Shops are not getting rich.

 

 

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On 9/15/2018 at 11:38 AM, Mopar1973Man said:

 

Just like one guy in Riggins, ID with 318k on the OEM injectors. Just lucky.

 

Then I've seen them right at 112k miles and the injector wipes out an engine.

 

While some fail young it's not uncommon to get lots of miles out of them. 

 

Quality fuel and fuel filters is key. The NAPA off the shelf filters are NOT quality, and don't even meet MIN OEM spec... yet people still run them. 

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12 hours ago, 04Mach1 said:

Actually independent shops make very little on parts.

 

Im not calling out shops on parts sales. I also know every shop is different. I know how rough it is when it comes to the automotive world.

Im talking more the way we get the parts to the customer. Its manufactured, then its packaged, then its distributed, then its stored, then its repackaged if its cummins for chrysler, then its distributed again, then its stored again, then it finally winds up in stores. After passing through all those hands its no wonder things are so expensive since everyone has to get their piece of the pie.

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5 hours ago, AH64ID said:

 

While some fail young it's not uncommon to get lots of miles out of them. 

 

Quality fuel and fuel filters is key. The NAPA off the shelf filters are NOT quality, and don't even meet MIN OEM spec... yet people still run them

Makes me feel better for all the FRAM filters I ran long ago. But I am very happy with the Donaldson filter I run now. Thanks for the recomendation.

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1 minute ago, dripley said:

Makes me feel better for all the FRAM filters I ran long ago

 

I did the same thing. Ran only FRAM for years then started using wix because the oreillys would give us a good deal on them. Now that im being more and more educated i might have to change over to fleetguard or donaldson

 

Anyone here use baldwin? Thats what we used on the heavy trucks growing up thats all my dad would buy was baldwin filters.

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6 minutes ago, 2000Ram2500 said:

Anyone here use baldwin? Thats what we used on the heavy trucks growing up thats all my dad would buy was baldwin filters.

 

Two of my 3 fuel filters are Baldwin, the OE canister filter and my initial 20µ filter. The crosses from Donaldson aren't as good. My final fuel filter is either a Fleetguard or a Donaldson, same specs but the Donaldson is cheaper. 

 

I've used a lot of Baldwin filters over the years and for the most part they are good filters. 

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8 hours ago, AH64ID said:

The NAPA off the shelf filters are NOT quality, and don't even meet MIN OEM spec... yet people still run them. 

That makes me sad. I thought NAPA was WIX and that WIX was good.  Discussions like this can drive a guy nuts. Kinda like if a butcher told you what went into a hot dog you'd never eat another hot dog again. Until then it tastes pretty good.

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I've pretty much gotten to all I'll use on my Cummins pick-ups is Fleetgaurd and sometimes Baldwin, in a pinch I'll settle for Luber Finer. Donaldson air filters are good but I  don't care for their oil and fuel filtration products. For the Ford vehicles I will usually go with Motorcraft, and for the GM vehicles I'll go with AC Delco. I've never been a fan of Fram or the parts store main stock specials like Wix, STP, MicroGard, etc...

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the donaldson dbl7349 is about the best oil filter you an run in these trucks for the price.

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8 hours ago, 04Mach1 said:

Donaldson air filters are good but I  don't care for their oil and fuel filtration products. 

 

I’m curious why. Their Blue oil filters are unmatched in this, and many, applications and their fuel filters are similar. 

 

That being said, that’s their Blue line and not their standard stuff. I prefer others over Donaldson standard stuff. 

 

Last I looked Donaldson doesn’t even have a air filter for CR’s. 

10 hours ago, dave110 said:

That makes me sad. I thought NAPA was WIX and that WIX was good.  

 

When I called and asked Wix about their specs they told me it was close enough, and a micron is really small. I laughed at the dude and hung up. 

 

Wix often uses a nominal rating to cross to an absolute rating. Absolute is what’s important. 

 

That’s the case with their fuel filters. They have some good oil and applications thou. 

Edited by AH64ID

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Don't get me wrong, a micron is REALLY small... but for a company to sell a product that doesn't meet the minimum OEM spec because it's close enough is pretty wrong. 

 

They are simply counting on the average consumer not knowing any better.

 

While all of the 5.9s are now out of factory warranty, they weren't always. It would have been very easy for Dodge to deny any injector warranty claim for anyone who showed up to the dealer with a Wix fuel filter installed. The line in the sand was drawn by Dodge and Wix is on the wrong side. 

 

 

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Just now, Mopar1973Man said:

I've got to ask @AH64ID. Could you recheck the 24V stock filter again for rating supposedly they dropped to 7um filter now for the 98.5 to 02 trucks? 

 

The 98.5-99's use a different filter, which is the FS19598, which is still a 10µ filter. 

 

The 00-02's use the same canister style as the 03-07 5.9's, but have different filters. The FS19855 is the 10µ 2nd gen filter, and the FS19856 is the 3rd gen 7µ filter. Both have the same flow ratings, but the FS19855 will hold a little more dirt, likely due to slighlty less media. 

 

I haven't seen anything on upgrading the 2nd gen specs, and honestly it's been so long I doubt that would happen. Nothing built in 02 is under the OE warranty and hasn't been for years. The change from 10µ (FS19800E) on 3rd gens to 7µ was warrant driven, despite Bosch recommending a 5µ filter. By the time the 6.7 rolled out Dodge was doing better, but it took until 2010ish to get great OEM filtration. 2013+ OEM filtration is fantastic. 

 

What I have heard of is parts houses only stocking and selling the 3rd gen filter for 00-07 trucks, as the filter is backwards compatible to 00. 

 

For 00-07 the Baldwin PF7977 is still the best drop-in filter at 5µ. 

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8 minutes ago, AH64ID said:

I haven't seen anything on upgrading the 2nd gen specs, and honestly it's been so long I doubt that would happen.

 

According to the Napa in Ontario, OR the Napa filter (Wix) is now a 7um filter. That's why I'm asking for an update on the filter data. 

Edited by Mopar1973Man

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46 minutes ago, Mopar1973Man said:

 

According to the Napa in Ontario, OR the Napa filter (Wix) is now a 7um filter. That's why I'm asking for an update on the filter data. 

 

According to the WIX website it's not, but you are getting their shister marketing first hand. They call it a 7µ nominal filter, but nominal doesn't have a set beta rating. 

 

The filter has always been marketed at 7µ nominal, but it's a 8µ absolute filter. Minimum spec is 7µ absolute. 

 

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Edited by AH64ID
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9 hours ago, AH64ID said:

 

I’m curious why. Their Blue oil filters are unmatched in this, and many, applications and their fuel filters are similar. 

 

That being said, that’s their Blue line and not their standard stuff. I prefer others over Donaldson standard stuff. 

 

Last I looked Donaldson doesn’t even have a air filter for CR’s. 

 

When I called and asked Wix about their specs they told me it was close enough, and a micron is really small. I laughed at the dude and hung up. 

 

Wix often uses a nominal rating to cross to an absolute rating. Absolute is what’s important. 

 

That’s the case with their fuel filters. They have some good oil and applications thou. 

I've seen many instances where Fleetgaurd and Baldwin filters were repainted in the Donaldson colors and got Donaldson part numbers. Accidentally taking paint of the filter with tools is what made me notice this. I'll have to take a picture next time I find a filter that Donaldson rebranded and marketed as their own. I have found the price point on Baldwin and Fleetgaurd is pretty good, I can get my LF16035 oil filter for about $5.00 most of the time through my contacts. I've never really researched Donaldson pricing but if they are rebranding competitors filters I would just rather get the competitors filter.

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1 hour ago, 04Mach1 said:

I've seen many instances where Fleetgaurd and Baldwin filters were repainted in the Donaldson colors and got Donaldson part numbers. Accidentally taking paint of the filter with tools is what made me notice this. I'll have to take a picture next time I find a filter that Donaldson rebranded and marketed as their own. I have found the price point on Baldwin and Fleetgaurd is pretty good, I can get my LF16035 oil filter for about $5.00 most of the time through my contacts. I've never really researched Donaldson pricing but if they are rebranding competitors filters I would just rather get the competitors filter.

 

Interesting. I’ve never seen that with any of the places I buy filters, but it could be the filters I buy.. i.e. DBL's

 

There are multiple filter companies that sell filters to one-another, but usually only in the basic filter lines and not the top of the line media. 

 

I have seen certain online retailers sell Wix filters with stickers on them for other crosses. 

 

I know that the Fleetuguard, Baldwin, and Donaldson filters I’ve bought are all different in terms of flow holes and materiel appearance. 

 

The media used by Donaldson on their BDL line is rated quite differently than Baldwin and Fleetguard stuff. 

Edited by AH64ID

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1 hour ago, AH64ID said:

 

Interesting. I’ve never seen that with any of the places I buy filters, but it could be the filters I buy.. i.e. DBL's

 

There are multiple filter companies that sell filters to one-another, but usually only in the basic filter lines and not the top of the line media. 

 

I have seen certain online retailers sell Wix filters with stickers on them for other crosses. 

 

I know that the Fleetuguard, Baldwin, and Donaldson filters I’ve bought are all different in terms of flow holes and materiel appearance. 

 

The media used by Donaldson on their BDL line is rated quite differently than Baldwin and Fleetguard stuff. 

Main filters I've seen rebranded was P550949 which some paint scraping will reveal Fleetgaurd LF14000NN under the Donaldson paint. Then the P552200; which revealed Fleetgaurd FF2200 under the Donaldson paint. Then P555686 found Fleetgaurd FF5686 under the Donaldson paint. Come to think of it I have only seen Donaldson rebrand the filters mainly used on the big red Cummins ISX engines. One time when working on a N14 I saw a P553000 that had a spec of bright red paint showing through, sure enough a light scraping and the Baldwin logo and part number of BD103 was revealed.

 

The only reason I remember these is Donaldson was trying to set our shop up with Donaldson filters and while we did stock some we recorded odd ball stuff with Donaldson filters until we ultimately decided to make Luber Finer our primarily stocked filter brand. We never really saw any filtration issues with Donaldson but we found the rebranding odd.

Edited by 04Mach1

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On 10/17/2018 at 6:25 AM, AH64ID said:

2013+ OEM filtration is fantastic. 

 

To this day the 2013+ Rams are the only ones to come with 2 seperate filtration setups. The Ecodiesel grand cherokees have 2 filters but there 2 small canister filters in a shared housing and the ecodiesel half tons have a single filter about the size of the grand cherokee ones stacked together.

Whats ironic is the people that come in and complain about the expensive fuel filters and decline the work are the ones that come back months later with problems and warranty doesnt cover neglect so they get to pay even more for diag, filters, and a cleaning additive. Unless there was other problems which there usually is in those situations and then they get to pay even more.

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