Quadzilla on a stock truck

[Dieselfuture]

Get a quad you can't go wrong with it on the VP truck. 

[Mopar1973Man]

30 minutes ago, Dieselfuture said:

Get a quad you can't go wrong with it on the VP truck. 

 

Absolutely...

 

What we started out with on Canned Tunes and now moving towards a fully programmable tuner is way better than years gone by where injectors were the factor if a tuner smoked or not. Now you can have much larger injectors and be smoke-free. That way the RV275 injectors are so popular is that was the best injector to stack with a "Canned Tune" tuner and still get a gain of powrr and be smoke free. Now with the Quadzilla Adrenaline guys are reaching 150 HP and 250 HP injectors and still keeping smoke-free to fairly smoke free. 

 

@Quadzilla Power is it possible to consider in future cable design that allows the Quadzilla module and bluetooth head moved into the cab? Be great for smog states and cities to be able to hide the module under the dash and just have wires under the hood. Being Quadzilla can run headless makes it a perfect tuner for this case.

Edited November 8, 2018 by Mopar1973Man

[Quadzilla Power]

Yes, we just need to figure out an in cab power supply that is powerful enough for us to drive the ignition circuit (constant power) and a good ground point then in cab installation shouldn't be an issue at all with just some adjusted cable lengths. 

 

[Marine]

Hi Gents.

If I can hop in here with a question along the same topic. I have an HTB2 62/65/13ss with a Pulse Adrenaline and Mach 1.6 injectors. Essentially I want to lower my EGTs because I will be giving the truck to Dad and I want it more user friendly so he doesn't melt anything. If I move down to RV275 injectors (or even 60HP injectors) what will the result be? I called HTT and they suggested moving down in injector before I move down to an HX35.

What are your thoughts?

@Quadzilla Power maybe I can lower the EGTs by a lower injection pulse?

Thanks!

[Mopar1973Man]

Upgrade to Quadzilla V2 tuning and you can control fuel way better. I've got a tune for towing I can stand on the throttle never reach 1,200F on a grade.

[Marine]

46 minutes ago, Mopar1973Man said:

Upgrade to Quadzilla V2 tuning and you can control fuel way better. I've got a tune for towing I can stand on the throttle never reach 1,200F on a grade.

 

Michael, I looked on their site but can't see a way to upgrade to the V2? Will it work with the Adrenaline screen or will I need to upgrade to a phone/tablet with BT?

Thanks!

[Me78569]

You need the iquad setup.  You can ship it to the. For the update or you can do it using the installer package we built.

[Marine]

1 hour ago, Me78569 said:

You need the iquad setup.  You can ship it to the. For the update or you can do it using the installer package we built.

 

Sorry, a part of your message is missing. Ship it to Quadzilla?

Or I can upgrade my Adrenaline using the installer package? Where is that located?

Either route I will still need the iQuad wireless module, correct? iQuad BT Module

Thanks!

[wil440]

On 11/8/2018 at 3:51 AM, Me78569 said:

He makes nice injectors.  I really wish I could have tried a set of his injectors in my testing, but the $$ didn't work out.

 

I believe bigger injectors are able to flow more fuel more efficent IE with less smoke under the curve when at the same hp.     

 

from my testing it felt like the truck had more torque across the entire rpm range with the same smoke with the 7 x .012's compared to the 7 x .009's  if that makes sense.   

 

 

hard to explain, but think of it this way.   

 

in order to make 300 hp, 

 

small injectors need to stay open longer to inject enough fuel to hit the hp number, where as bigger injectors dont need to stay open so long to hit the same hp number.  This means your "power" can be injected at a more exact point in time in the stroke, reducing egts and smoke.   

I used to do a lot of ignition tuning on 60s/early 70s Mopar petrol/gas V8s roadrunners, chargers etc etc using a 50s sun distributor machine, has anyone figured out the crank angle for max power, max rate of burn, max force to the top of the piston for a cummins ? Thinking about and comparing it it's a bit more vague with a diesel as there is no spark to fire it all off so it would maybe come down to injection timing, ambient temp, intake temp, camshaft duration (same as petrol), compression (same as petrol) fuel volativity and cylinder head shape and design... so all the above contributes to the flame front travel and just at the right crank/conrod angle for max power. So larger injectors are getting the fuel in earlier so lets say it's all done at  the ideal crank angle for max force then there's the MPG saving..... no point in injecting anything after a certain crank angle as It won't create effient power or burn properly and just create smoke, on applications of huge power (pulling) it wouldn't matter as mpg and black aren't considered.   EGT's are high when unburnt fuel gets fired into the exhaust when the exhaust valve opens

Or I just am talking rubbish ?? 

[Me78569]

18 minutes ago, Marine said:

 

Sorry, a part of your message is missing. Ship it to Quadzilla?

Or I can upgrade my Adrenaline using the installer package? Where is that located?

Either route I will still need the iQuad wireless module, correct? iQuad BT Module

Thanks!

ship it to quad to have them update or do it yourself using the article we have.  you need the iquad module regardless.

 

 

 

10 minutes ago, wil440 said:

I used to do a lot of ignition tuning on 60s/early 70s Mopar petrol/gas V8s roadrunners, chargers etc etc using a 50s sun distributor machine, has anyone figured out the crank angle for max power, max rate of burn, max force to the top of the piston for a cummins ? Thinking about and comparing it it's a bit more vague with a diesel as there is no spark to fire it all off so it would maybe come down to injection timing, ambient temp, intake temp, camshaft duration (same as petrol), compression (same as petrol) fuel volativity and cylinder head shape and design... so all the above contributes to the flame front travel and just at the right crank/conrod angle for max power. So larger injectors are getting the fuel in earlier so lets say it's all done at  the ideal crank angle for max force then there's the MPG saving..... no point in injecting anything after a certain crank angle as It won't create effient power or burn properly and just create smoke, on applications of huge power (pulling) it wouldn't matter as mpg and black aren't considered.   EGT's are high when unburnt fuel gets fired into the exhaust when the exhaust valve opens

Or I just am talking rubbish ?? 

Someone might have,    I just trialed and errored until I found what worked for me. 

 

If you look at the S03 tuning I see timing at 18* at WOT and peak duration.  I am guessing that is where you see peak torque number in the 1800 rpm range.   

 

then we see 19-20* of timing at cruise ~55-65 mph for generally peak mpg.   

 

your thinking makes sense to me, but i am not a tuner.

[wil440]

I'm not a tuner far from it, a long time ago I was told a lot of information on how to cure the muscle car overheating problem using modern fuel and I did well out of it with a payment of course for the information... probably not as well as I could have done but I did help a lot of people out over here, reading this I just had a lightbulb moment is all, fuel is different for sure petrol v diesel but the basic design of the internal combustion engine doesn't change, there has been admittedly some variation mainly diesel or heavy oil on the starting procedure as in parrafin to start, hot bulb, precombustion chambers etc but crank, rods, heads, valves don't change

 

I have no tuner so I can't experiment, 

can a quad change static injection timing like a distributor can on a petrol engine ?

what static or at least idle timing does a 5.9 like.. as in the most before the rattle ( this is a guess as to what would happen), if it was petrol the check would be the highest static before it tries to kick back at the starter when starting hot ? and mopar needs a total of 34* total

 

I would say find the highest static (hot) or idle timing it would take then max timing on EGT as if EGT is high then smoke will be too and MPG out the window, then sort the middle out on rattle and EGT

whos got a quad for sale

[Mopar1973Man]

Quadzilla can adjust timing but at idling and startup, ECM is in direct control. Quadzilla doesn't come online till past 1,000 RPM and some sort of APPS signal change. At idle the ECM is in control. 

 

The problem I'm seeing as cetane rises the ignition quality rises as well so less timing is needed with winterized diesel fuel. The summer fuel when cetane falls then the timing has to be added. On diesel, they will actually create what's known as "negative torque" which is the point the diesel fuel was ignited too early on the before TDC so as the fuel is still burning it's pulling some negative torque then as it passes over TDC then the power comes out. Typically you see a slight rise to the engine load as you continue to advance. Cetane is a bigger factor than IAT temperature. Even with morning temperature now in the 10°F realm and seeing 62°F in intake temperature then running 180°F thermostat it made a very little impact to the MPG performance and all the cold air I can stuff in this beast. 19.5 MPG last trip. 

 

On a side note. My 1996 Dodge 5.9L V8 Magnum is pulling 40° of timing at about 1,600 RPM. Requires 91 octane to keep from breaking the piston rings out of it. Yeah, I've got a Mopar Performance PCM on that little beast but it now in the high 17's MPG.

[Quadzilla Power]

Yes, this would require you to upgrade from the pulse to an iQuad, something your dad probably doesn't want to mess with, but if he's tech saavy then it should be OK. 

 

Dropping fuel will give lower EGTs, but less power. That is the tradeoff when you don't have as much control over the timing etc. 

 

And I missed an entire page of answers so this was all pretty much covered. 

 

[Marine]

Thanks @Quadzilla Power. I think I am going to go to a smaller injector (75hp) and lower the pump stretch. I'm not sure how best to adjust the Pulse with my current setup; any suggestions?

I generally run on the 2000 series tunes on level 1-5.

[Me78569]

Run a 1000 series tune, set to mins at 20 and 30 wieetap min.

 

Keep fuel stretch at 1200

[wil440]

On 11/18/2018 at 2:08 PM, Mopar1973Man said:

 

 

The problem I'm seeing as cetane rises the ignition quality rises as well so less timing is needed with winterized diesel fuel. The summer fuel when cetane falls then the timing has to be added. On diesel, they will actually create what's known as "negative torque" which is the point the diesel fuel was ignited too early on the before TDC so as the fuel is still burning it's pulling some negative torque then as it passes over TDC then the power comes out. Typically you see a slight rise to the engine load as you continue to advance. Cetane is a bigger factor than IAT temperature. Even with morning temperature now in the 10°F realm and seeing 62°F in intake temperature then running 180°F thermostat it made a very little impact to the MPG performance and all the cold air I can stuff in this beast. 19.5 MPG last trip. 

 

On a side note. My 1996 Dodge 5.9L V8 Magnum is pulling 40° of timing at about 1,600 RPM. Requires 91 octane to keep from breaking the piston rings out of it. Yeah, I've got a Mopar Performance PCM on that little beast but it now in the high 17's MPG.

That is exactly the same end results for gas musclecars but the reduction in "octane" took years from the late 60's and it never went back up, they ran terrible, ran hot and the stink was/is horrible, get some timing in the things and different cars, yes it needs a lot of information on the car as in weight/engine/torque convertor stall, rear end ratio etc to just figure out the load on the motor then you can figure out the static timing,curve and total timing.

So thinking out loud... a  tune on a 3500 longbed quadcab 4x4 wouldn't be the same as a tune for a 2500 shortbed single cab 2x4, (lets say they are both autos) but the same 2 trucks with manuals might be able to get more timing in, IIRC 60's early 70's Mopars liked about 20* ATDC for max rate of expansion which translated to max downward force to the top of the piston and more importantly everything is all done and burnt before the exhaust valve opens or as close to as a bit is ok as it scavenges the cylinder.

As far as your magnum, thats the same design ish as a 60's 5.9 they wanted a max of 34* and as far as I know the combustion chamber is the same shape so either there's a compression ratio drop or an increase in cam duration (very unlikely) or the load is less or 91 octane over there is rebranded coke as 40* seems high, my magnum is stock at, is it 34 ? it has a keg gasket passing a little oil and thats about blowing the heads off under load, so parked waiting for me. AHH I wonder is the 40* checked with a timing  light and  no load ? If so I wonder if the M Perf PCM is backing it off just like the old vac can DOH !! of course it is

[Marine]

On 11/21/2018 at 5:30 PM, Me78569 said:

Run a 1000 series tune, set to mins at 20 and 30 wieetap min.

 

Keep fuel stretch at 1200

I will put a 1000 tune on when I get time. In the meantime I have a 2000 series but I did set the mins to 20 and 30 (I'm assuming 20 is the first min on the list and 30 is the 2nd min on the list in the Pulse), and moved the stretch to 1200.

[portlandareae28]

OK, back to my original question maybe with some better wording.  I have an Edge Comp now, I don't like how the truck runs in the higher tunes.. Doesn't feel smooth (not sure why), and is way too smokey.  I have heard numbers all over the place, but lets use 50hp..  If the Edge Comp can make an additional 50hp on a stock engine, but not as smooth as stock and smokey, what could be done to that same truck with the Quadzilla?  I am not looking for a 500hp truck, I am not looking to push as large of injector as possible, right now I don't tow anything regularly, I do haul once in awhile and enjoy driving the truck.. What I like about what I know about the Quadzilla is that if my mindset or situation changed I could throw injectors, etc at it and have the ability to reconfigure the tune within the quadzilla to still hopefully optimize it.  I don't want to talk about how much injector I can try and get away with in California, or who passed what smog test somewhere else.  I want to know can the stock truck, or a truck with RV275's (known to pass smog here in California) run better than stock while potentially making some more power and not smoking.

 

Thank You

[Me78569]

the quad can be as aggressive or lazy as you want.   There is no technical reason why a stock injector truck can't be tuned to have 150* hp over stock and not smoke like you have right now on high levels.  

the edge comp makes ~120hp over stock. the quad is rated at 180 hp over stock, but I generally like to say that all wiretap boxes do ~150hp over stock.  

 

Most guys that come from a comp to a quad feel like the truck is stronger though.    

[notlimah]

Basically get whatever size injector you think will suit your needs combined with the quad will do really well. It’ll be smooth, you can tune it to be smoke free (to a point) so it should do all you want.

 

Using your example, a quad with 50hp injectors will run like a stock stock until you step on the pedal, but no smoke and smooth.