Help! No Start

[LorenS]

No run/start power. Accessories position works.  Timer module(?) under dash ticks about 4 times per second when door is open. No fuses seem blown, though we all know that means nothing.

 

Sitting outside kid's baby sitter's house so any help appreciated!

 

Have not had any prior issue with switch, behaves as brand new.

 

Even the headlights don't work, but batteries are juiced.

 

Under hood light works great, hitting hazards sounds like a cheap fart machine by emergency brake pedal. No brake lights.

 

Changed out 50 amp Battery fuse, no help.

[dripley]

The hazards could be the thingy in the fuse box that makes them blink but I would not think that would cause the truck not to start. This is out my area of knowledge for sure. Hopefully some with more will chime in soon.

[Dieselfuture]

Did you check the 140amp fuse in pdc

Edit

Nevermind, I guess nothing would work then. I'm no help in this field ether. @Mopar1973Man to the rescue

Edited January 24, 2019 by Dieselfuture

[LorenS]

Turns out the Accessories position must not have been working correctly, either; I think some items it may have been getting SOME power backwards through the grounding circuit, because things like the radio would start to light up, but wouldn't play, then would go dark like a capacitor was being drained.

If I kicked on the headlights, the Central Timer Module would stop clicking.  Even my ISSPRO fuel pressure gauge dummy red light would flash weird, then go out if I attempted to draw lots of power (LIKE turning on the headlights, though not sure that was an actual example I tried).

The Front Control Module (8E-115 in manual) says it controls "headlamp power with voltage regulation".  Checking pages 8I-2 and 8I-4, looks like it could be fuse #50.

Or it could just be some wiring connector to/from the ignition switch!

 

I sure wish this had happened at home on a beautiful autumn Saturday morning so I could've at least tried to diagnose the problem myself!

[NIsaacs]

Sounds like batteries or cables need some attention.

[Stanley]

Those pesky grounds.... 

Always get ya! 

[Marcus2000monster]

Make sure they’re no corrosion on cables and posts and clean them well and douse them with motor oil if they’re is. Defiantly sounds like power or fground issues.

[LorenS]

It was definitely a power issue - I wasn't getting any power.  Turns out there was a bad connector of some kind under the hood.  This is according to the service writer who strikes me as not knowing a lug nut from a walnut, so who knows.  I just know for certain that when I went to pick up my kid's car seat that the truck dinger was going off when I opened the door (key in ignition), and it wasn't doing that before.  Service writer said that tech had found the problem and that a part had been ordered.

Hopefully will get full scoop this afternoon.

 

I've gone through all my grounds except the G100 under the driver's battery, which I know needs serious attention.  Also on my list of to-do's is the W-T mod, and replacing the rest of my cable terminals.  However, in this case the odds of it being a battery terminal issue were about zero since two lights worked (underhood, glove box), but everything that had anything to do with the Integrated Power Module (see service manual pages 8W-13-3, 13 and 26) were dead.

 

By the way, borrowed the company's 2005 Duramax/Allison pickup with 658k miles.  What a nice, quiet, ride.  Having a 5 speed sure was nice, too, and it handled the shift from direct to 0.711 far better than the 2nd Gen Dodge shift to 0.69.  Being 2WD and with the customary GM featherweight steering was nice, too.  Felt like driving my old G-Body.  I sure wouldn't want to have to work under the hood, what a mess!

[dripley]

Good to hear. Looking to finding out what was wrong. I dont understand the hard shifting into OD on a Dodge manual. Neither my 5 or 6 speed is hard to go into OD. Just another gear.

[kzimmer]

The Duramax/Allison likely has heavy torque management between the direct and OD shift. Result is a smoother shift. The 2nd gen Cummins as far as I know does not cut power during the OD shift. 1:0 to .69:1 is a pretty rank drop in RPM, especially during high load conditions. Couple this with the fact that the converter doesn't fully unlock during the shift and it's rough.

 

@dripley you of course would not feel this. Your left and right feet manage your torque during shifts.

Edited January 25, 2019 by kzimmer

[dripley]

1 hour ago, kzimmer said:

The Duramax/Allison likely has heavy torque management between the direct and OD shift. Result is a smoother shift. The 2nd gen Cummins as far as I know does not cut power during the OD shift. 1:0 to .69:1 is a pretty rank drop in RPM, especially during high load conditions. Couple this with the fact that the converter doesn't fully unlock during the shift and it's rough.

 

@dripley you of course would not feel this. Your left and right feet manage your torque during shifts.

I missed the part about the Allison, thought he was speaking of a manual.

[LorenS]

Picked up the truck, tech was gone for the day. A connection got cleaned and tightened, that's all I know - no new part was installed. Also, no charge!!!

 

My dashboard still randomly lights up like Christmas tree (abs, airbag, CEL) , no bus, ccd, tach goes to zero, all that fun stuff.

[Marcus2000monster]

6 minutes ago, LorenS said:

Picked up the truck, tech was gone for the day. A connection got cleaned and tightened, that's all I know - no new part was installed. Also, no charge!!!

 

My dashboard still randomly lights up like Christmas tree (abs, airbag, CEL) , no bus, ccd, tach goes to zero, all that fun stuff.

Glad it was simple!

[trreed]

Have you checked the two big CCD plugs just to the right of the valve cover? Sometimes that white bail gets loosened and you get intermittent issues like you’re seeing.

[JAG1]

13 hours ago, LorenS said:

Picked up the truck, tech was gone for the day. A connection got cleaned and tightened, that's all I know - no new part was installed. Also, no charge!!!

 

My dashboard still randomly lights up like Christmas tree (abs, airbag, CEL) , no bus, ccd, tach goes to zero, all that fun stuff.

This is a good indication that other connections and grounds should be serviced before any additional trouble. 

Edited January 26, 2019 by JAG1

[LorenS]

7 hours ago, trreed said:

Have you checked the two big CCD plugs just to the right of the valve cover? Sometimes that white bail gets loosened and you get intermittent issues like you’re seeing.

trreed, no I have not.  But I will tomorrow!

 

6 hours ago, JAG1 said:

This is a good indication that other connections and grounds should be serviced before any additional trouble. 

Agreed.  I have three more battery terminal to replace (already did one), and the G100 ground under the passenger battery I know needs attention. I have materials for the W-T mod, though my alternator AC reading is well below mopar1973man's recommended limit.

 

Today I had a few minutes so removed the air filter box to clean the PCM connections.  However, they are in great shape and had dielectric grease in there.  All connections shiny on PCM, no idea on wiring end of course, but in bright bright sunlight I saw no signs of corrosion.

HOWEVER, there is a ground there that I think a previous owner has modified in some way, because it currently appears useless.  What I see is a screw with a ground strap, the screw goes into the firewall or a plastic part mounted to the firewall, I believe.  It's as if the big ground strap is to press against the metal case of the PCM, but a black plastic piece prevents contact.  Is that washer supposed to be curved so that it makes contact with the PCM case?

I'll try to run out and get a photo and edit this post.

 

Edit: well that "black plastic" seems to actually be the very oxidized aluminum case of the PCM. Will clean tomorrow. The PCM cover is shiny, so was thrown off by that.

Edited January 26, 2019 by LorenS
Add photo.

[dripley]

Mine has the same strap run to the firewall. Pretty sure that is just a ground for the case since the main PCM ground actually attaches to the passenger battery.  

[JAG1]

Thats original like driply says, but I don't understand about the plastic washer. It should not be there as if an attempt to isolate the ground from the firewall. Ground should go to ground. Maybe the previous owner thought it would hold tight by putting that on there,   I don't know why its there.

[dripley]

1 hour ago, JAG1 said:

Thats original like driply says, but I don't understand about the plastic washer. It should not be there as if an attempt to isolate the ground from the firewall. Ground should go to ground. Maybe the previous owner thought it would hold tight by putting that on there,   I don't know why its there.

@LorenS said he looked at it again it was not plastic. I cant see one in the picture either. Unless I am missing something.

Edited January 27, 2019 by dripley

[Mopar1973Man]

 

That ground there is NOT a circuit ground or sensor ground. The problem is on some models the PCM is screwed to the plate on plastic nuts. What happens is the PCM is isolated from body ground for the case. The ground strap was added to give connect between the PCM case and the body that all. The ones with the plastic screw nuts without the ground strap, RF noise and other noise emissions could foul the PCM. The strap was added to prevent this.

 

I repeat this is not a circuit ground or sensor ground. 

 

PCM actual ground is Connector #1 and pins 31 and 32 which head back to the passenger battery.

 

PCM sensor ground is Connector #1 and pin 4 which service...

• Battery Temperature Sensor
• Fuel Level Sensor
• Transmssion sensors (governor pressure sensor and transmission temperature sensor)