fan clutch help

[wil440]

on another note there is no clutch it is all silicon fluid and from my apprenticeship 41 years ago I'm sure as it gets hotter it gets thicker so it drives, cools down it gets thinner so slips

the coil just opens a orifice to let the fluid to the outer part of the housing to increase torque drive I think

6 minutes ago, KATOOM said:

wil440, let me clarify...  There are few components on these particular trucks whereby OEM is superior.  The ones which come to mind right now are 1) The fan clutch and 2) the starter.  Other than that, most aftermarket stuff is just as good, or possibly better. 

 

I've been around the automotive scene for many decades and was even a part-time mechanic when I was younger, so I am and have been pro-aftermarket since I started wrenching on my own vehicles since "typically" those manufactures have an invested interest in the specific parts they're offering.  Thats not to say OEM isnt investing considerably R&D themselves but that there are pro's and con's to both options and knowing which one has the most to offer is key.

 

In this particular situation the OEM fan clutch has been proven repeatedly throughout the years that it will outperform and outlast most aftermarket "lifetime" warranty ones.

Right off the bat I'll say I would not drive anything other than Mopar so thats a given but as far as OEM superior the starter will be Cummins and not Dodge and the fan clutch has never had any employee of Dodge/Plymouth/Chrysler anywhere near it's creation and I'm 3000miles minimum away from Rockauto, Orielleys and whoever and I read this forum from front to back because while you guys may be in the middle of nowhere when it stops and it will, add 3000 miles to that and thats where I am, I just paid £50 posted for a grid solenoid to do the IBM mod, just seems odd to me that this forum is mostly about binning out the OEM, just a discussion mate thats all but I'm terrified of oem where I am

[dripley]

From my experience the oe starter lasted 5 years, the first replacement 5 years, the second replacement 5 years. The third is 2.5 years into its life. So we will see if itmgets more than 5. Now the oe fan clutch is going on its 18th year this October. The AC stays pretty steady as long as I keep the widow up, but I still like it down for the fresh air. Always have.

[Timd32]

On 7/10/2019 at 10:05 PM, 015point9 said:

So do those fans ever come off and do a happy dance in the radiator?

Fortunately for me not into the radiator, but it will come apart and ruin your day from time to time.

 

I swapped my fan clutch out, I failed to recheck the small bolts on the pulley, the wrench set up I have holds around the small bolts on the pulley, so when I knocked the old one off they loosened, I just spun off the old fan and clutch, put the new one on and was down the road about 20miles got to work, was squeaking a bit figured it was the bearing as I used the old fan hub, I had a spare bearing figured it would be fine, I went to lunch got maybe 3 blocks from my shop and heard all sorts of issues and smoke, the pulley bolts had finally worked themselves loose all fell out and it threw the belt. 

 

I actually took a video of it prior to it failing as my truck had never made any noises up to then. Should have rechecked my work at the shop real quick, was certain was the hub bearing.

 

Needless to say did not end well, but was an easy fix at the same time, needed a tow back to my work fixed it in the parking lot after I got a new belt and some loctite and paint marker.

 

Pre throwing belt

 

Threw belt

 

Check and locktite pulley bolts, and paint mark.

 

Post repair.

 

For my '96 I went with the following. Replaced the hub after incase I damaged it.

 

FB1002 FAN HUB ASSEMBLY - GATES ('94-'02)

 

52028760 FAN CLUTCH - MOPAR ('91.5-'98, 12V)

 

[Mopar1973Man]

 

17 hours ago, KATOOM said:

The OEM fan clutch is superior to anything else you'll find...period.

 

Show me the manufacture of the OEM part. Show me where its made...

 

You'll find out that Cummins and Dodge only relabel another manufacture. I've already research thermostats I know that Dodge and Cummins both do NOT manufacture thermostats. I'm pretty sure neither Dodge or Cummins manufacture fan clutches. Just because Cummins and Dodge sells parts with their logo on it does NOT mean its made by them. 

 

Again oil filters... Tell me about how Mopar make oil filters? Even the Mopar filters. Mopar does NOT produce oil filters...

Edited July 12, 2019 by Mopar1973Man

[RAD]

fan clutch replaced with OEM number purchased through local Dodge dealership with Car Quest/Advanced Auto as the go between.

 

biggest differance being the diameter. OEM 7", what i took off 6.4".

OEM thickness was just a bit thicker by about 3/8".

OEM fins were taller, right at 1/4"

 

idling in my back yard A/C was blowing 42 degrees. 

 

as far as seeing what the temp does (at a stop light) on a 95+ degree da,y may not see those temps today as Barry is keeping it cloudy with spotty thunderstorms here in LA.

[Mopar1973Man]

Still who manufactured the part? This is a question no one is willing to look into. Just because it was in a Mopar box still doesn't mean Mopar/Cummins made it. Do some research... 

 

[Haggar]

A quick check is look at the high side pressures (if you have the gauges)  (you really needed to do this before swap and after)

 

Short story:  try running water on the condenser.  Do your vent temperatures go down?  if they do go down greatly, you are not pulling enough air through the stack at idle.  (Or try an electric booster fan near the top of the condenser)  (oh actually if the ambient air is not too high, a leaf blower worked at bringing duct temps down.)

An interesting note, we are arguing about lockup.  we should be nowhere near lockup, so how much are does the fan clutch pull during partial lock conditions (and is it linear as it locks?).  (of course the clutch manufacturers don't publish ANY of that data....  but it is important data to those who need it...)

 

Long story (ok REALLY LONG story)

Just went through this issue on another engineer's '05 duramax.  Being as we have data loggers available to us, we played with recording ambient temperatures, pre/post evaporator temperatures, approximate stack temperatures, high and low refrigerant pressures, vent temperatures and in-cab ambient temperatures.  We used an anemometer to try and get average air velocities. (of course we had no data to compare that too, which would have been nice because it would possibly have shown the problem earlier.)  All TSBs for poor A/C performance for the duramax were around making sure the airflow through the stack was clear of obstructions and that all plastic bits were in place making sure the air went through the stack, not around the stack, into the fan.  (so air flow across the condenser seems to be a common issue)  We have in the last 2 years replaced every component in the ac (yes the evaporator too!) chasing this issue...  only did the data acquisition in the last 3 months.  The problem now was the fan clutch.  It would just not pull enough air through the stack during idle.  (we don't know what the original problem was....  the symptoms have always stayed the same throughout, but maybe it was the fan from the very beginning and the "new" fan clutch was not any better and possibly worse....)   Basically we were able to diagnose that his AC worked fine above about 15mph.  The minute you went below this speed,  the high pressure side started sliding high, dragging the low pressure side with it.  We could get it to bounce off of the high side pressure switch......  That should never really happen in a properly designed and configured system.  

 

We shotgunned the last fix.  We replaced the fan clutch and put the suburban condenser on (the suburban condenser due front and rear AC evaporators has about a 20% increase in surface area.  Present data is outstanding.  I think he is still a bit low on freon (we have not charged the system by superheat yet.  We just made an ewag off of volume change)     Our pre and post evaporator thermocouples may not be in perfect places (we didn't think to install them while the hvac box was out) .  According to the acquisition with the AC on recirc, he is seeing almost a 40f delta T. 

 

HTH GL

Hag

[KATOOM]

22 hours ago, wil440 said:

on another note there is no clutch it is all silicon fluid and from my apprenticeship 41 years ago I'm sure as it gets hotter it gets thicker so it drives, cools down it gets thinner so slips

the coil just opens a orifice to let the fluid to the outer part of the housing to increase torque drive I think

Right off the bat I'll say I would not drive anything other than Mopar so thats a given but as far as OEM superior the starter will be Cummins and not Dodge and the fan clutch has never had any employee of Dodge/Plymouth/Chrysler anywhere near it's creation and I'm 3000miles minimum away from Rockauto, Orielleys and whoever and I read this forum from front to back because while you guys may be in the middle of nowhere when it stops and it will, add 3000 miles to that and thats where I am, I just paid £50 posted for a grid solenoid to do the IBM mod, just seems odd to me that this forum is mostly about binning out the OEM, just a discussion mate thats all but I'm terrified of oem where I am

 

Yes, I fully understand how a fan clutch works, although I'm not about to call it a fan viscous coupler since the only person who would know what I'm talking about would likely be you.  And yes, Dodge and Cummins didnt make the starter or fan clutch.  Denso built most of the starters and I have no clue who manufactured the fan clutch.

 

6 hours ago, Mopar1973Man said:

Show me the manufacture of the OEM part. Show me where its made...

 

You'll find out that Cummins and Dodge only relabel another manufacture. I've already research thermostats I know that Dodge and Cummins both do NOT manufacture thermostats. I'm pretty sure neither Dodge or Cummins manufacture fan clutches. Just because Cummins and Dodge sells parts with their logo on it does NOT mean its made by them. 

 

Again oil filters... Tell me about how Mopar make oil filters? Even the Mopar filters. Mopar does NOT produce oil filters...

 

I think you guys are missing my point...  Let me try to be even more CLEAR than I was before.  I am NOT pro-OEM...  I'm just pointing out the statistical understanding of what OEM parts tend to be more reliable than aftermarket.  I could care less who manufactured for OEM either as that has zero to do with this.  You're more than welcome to buy whatever parts you want or use whatever you want...but when someone asks a question on the forum I feel its right to be most honest with the information I give...not just state that because something worked for me that it must be the only way.  My information comes from watching and reading what thousands of members have said over the past couple decades, not just what I experienced with my truck.

 

All that said...it seems the OP has discovered that the OEM fan clutch is doing well.

Edited July 12, 2019 by KATOOM

[Mopar1973Man]

2 minutes ago, KATOOM said:

I think you guys are missing my point...

 

I'm just pointing out when you do the research, statistically most OEM parts are not made by the OEM. All I'm saying do you research you'll find that most of this stuff is not manufactured by Mopar or Cummins. They just get there parts from a 3rd party and relabel the box that's all. Is it worth it to pay double or triple to get the very same fan clutch in a Mopar Box or save some money and get it in NAPA, AutoZone, etc. box? All I'm say is do the research you might save some cash and not waste on Cummins or Mopar logo.

 

@mr.obvious was the one that showed me his worthless Cummins thermostat which wasn't a Cummins Thermostat which they happen to change the supplier and it's way different design. Needless to say it was a expensive paperweight now sitting on his dining room table. Cummins thermostat was running too cold IIRC.

 

[KATOOM]

8 hours ago, Mopar1973Man said:

 

I'm just pointing out when you do the research, statistically most OEM parts are not made by the OEM. All I'm saying do you research you'll find that most of this stuff is not manufactured by Mopar or Cummins. They just get there parts from a 3rd party and relabel the box that's all. Is it worth it to pay double or triple to get the very same fan clutch in a Mopar Box or save some money and get it in NAPA, AutoZone, etc. box? All I'm say is do the research you might save some cash and not waste on Cummins or Mopar logo.

 

@mr.obvious was the one that showed me his worthless Cummins thermostat which wasn't a Cummins Thermostat which they happen to change the supplier and it's way different design. Needless to say it was a expensive paperweight now sitting on his dining room table. Cummins thermostat was running too cold IIRC.

 

 

I dont think anyone was claiming that "Mopar" or "Cummins" manufactured any component.  Hopefully that point has been beat into the ground by now.  OEM is simply Original Equipment Mmanufacturer, a company who manufactures something for another company.

 

So whomever makes Mopars fan clutch does a great job because there are no over the counter parts stores who carry that same exact fan clutch.  If you can find out who manufactures it...and its available somewhere else cheaper then I would happily go that route.  Until then...

 

As for thermostats, yeah I have a NAPA one and it works just as good as the OEM did for me.

[Mopar1973Man]

Like @mr.obvious thermostats. He was asking for another Cal-Therm thermostat which was the OEM that came in his truck. When he went to Cummins they no longer have Cal-Term. Cummins switched up to another manufacture since 2002 when his truck was made. Great example just because Cummins use a particular part back in 2002 does mean Cummins still sell or the 3rd party still exist. Like in his example Cal-Therm is no longer Cummins start selling totally different and it was a huge fail. 

 

This applies to all parts sold by Mopar and Cummins. Just because your original part last long time the chances of getting that exact part from Cummins or Mopar is next to rare. When I stop by his place today to deliver his ISSPro Gauges I'll make sure and show a picture of both the old Cummins and the new Cummins. 

 

Fan Clutches I'm going to bet there is only a few manufactures like 4 Seasons, Hayden, etc. that produce the fan clutch then Cummins and Mopar pay a royalty fee to rebrand the box with their logo. Which in turn you pay more money just to have that Cummins or Mopar logo on the box but it still just a 4 Seasons or Hayden fan clutch. 

 

[Mopar1973Man]

Both are Cummins one on the right new 2019 then the right is 2002 Cummins. You can no longer get the old style.

[NIsaacs]

The new Cummins is on the far left, far right is new Napa, It don't work!! Both 180's, the center one is an old 190.

 

 

Edited July 13, 2019 by NIsaacs

[Evan]

This is a good read. I read most of it because I think my fan quit kicking on a few years ago. I used to hear it kick on pulling grades but haven't heard it come on in a long time. Maybe it comes on partial or something.

 

I'm running the starter that came on my truck in 2002 6 or  8 years ago I rebuilt it with kit from Larry Bs

 

http://www.fostertruck.com/cummins-dodge-denso-starter-easy-rebuild-kit-94-06.html

 

I have seen it run alittle hotter then normal while towing heavy in city traffic with outside temp in the 100s 

It never used to get over 190. Now it gets over 190

 

 

 

 

[Mopar1973Man]

Like just in the thermostats its a mixed bag. As you can see just buy Cummins does guarantee you going to get the same thing. This why I don't run the Mopar or Cummins for most parts because what was used on our truck back in 1998 to 2002 that lasted so long is no longer available today and manufactured by someone else.   

 

 

Like this photo the one on the right that @mr.obvious wanted is made by cal-therm but no longer available. 

 

 

The 2 brass based thermostats look like a Gates. I know Gates produces there thermostats. But there again Cummins and NAPA are the same manufacture in that photo. You never know what Mopar or Cummins might stuff a box with and charge a high price for.

 

[KATOOM]

Mopar fan clutch part number appears to be the same part from the same manufacture no matter the source.  I also understand that the part is no longer manufactured so whatever is out there is what remains.  When they're gone then parts store ones will be the only option.

[wil440]

On thermostats..... I fitted a 190 as the heater was pants, I then got some Cat cooling system cleaner and ran that as per the instructions, after towing weight and a good grade I'm going back to the 180 I took out as the cat cooling sys cleaner did the job

180 looked like original

[Mopar1973Man]

3 hours ago, KATOOM said:

When they're gone then parts store ones will be the only option.

 

No, the part number is filled with a different manufacture. There will always be part for the part number. Just who made the part back in 2000's vs. 2010 and on into the future. The continue to fill the part slot with another part regardless. This is what I'm getting at so like @mr.obvious had a Cal-Therm thermostat now Cummins no longer uses that manufacture. 

 

Just like Mopar will use one manufacture of fan clutch then when they discontinue that manufacture they just pick up another manufacture of fan clutch. Since Mopar and Cummins don't produce them they just pick another manufacture. 

Edited July 14, 2019 by Mopar1973Man

[KATOOM]

3 hours ago, Mopar1973Man said:

 

No, the part number is filled with a different manufacture. There will always be part for the part number. Just who made the part back in 2000's vs. 2010 and on into the future. The continue to fill the part slot with another part regardless. This is what I'm getting at so like @mr.obvious had a Cal-Therm thermostat now Cummins no longer uses that manufacture. 

 

Just like Mopar will use one manufacture of fan clutch then when they discontinue that manufacture they just pick up another manufacture of fan clutch. Since Mopar and Cummins don't produce them they just pick another manufacture. 

 

Thats not true MM...  There are plenty of OEM parts out there in the automotive world which are no longer available.

 

Its been said that auto manufactures have to supply OEM parts for 10 years after the last build date of a vehicle...but I'm not even sure thats fact or just some made up story.  Either way, no other manufacture builds a discontinued OEM part using the same OEM part number.  If the part is still available from the dealer then its found under that OEM part number.  But if an available part is changed for any reason and/or manufactured from another source then the part number can be superseded.

 

So my point is, if the OEM fan clutch for your truck is no longer available from the dealer then its no longer available from OEM and you'll have to find it from a third party company who potentially has them.  This is where core charges come into play.  If there are no sources who have those discontinued parts then aftermarket is the only option.  For some older vehicles there are no parts available whereby custom fabrication or retrofitting from other vehicles are the only choices.

[RAD]

Could not find too much info from the packhaging.

 

https://www.edmunds.com/car-maintenance/aftermarket-versus-manufacturer-car-parts.html

another fan clutch post from another forum

 

https://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f9/i-just-bought-mopar-fan-clutch-but-i-don-t-know-original-fake-4334797/

 

 

"I bought mopar fan clutch for wrangler 2006 from mpar store but it looks different from the factory on my jeep 

It looks different because there is an updated part #. Updated part #'s usually mean the part came from a different supplier.
I recently replaced mine w/ an original mopar fan clutch, looked nothing like the original. Same as yours.
Its a SMP fan clutch. SMP otherwise known as Standard Motor Products manufactures the fan clutch under 4Seasons or Hayden brands."