Good afternoon! I'm brand new to the forums here, and brand new to the diesel world. This site looks like the best community of 2nd gen Cummins addicts I could find anywhere, so I am honored to join and learn from you, and hopefully one day contribute to helping others as well.

 

Hopefully this is an appropriate place for an introduction, I really enjoy reading the intros from some of you and learning about how your trucks are setup, and their history, so here's a shortened version of mine:

I bought this 2001.5 from a family member who bought it brand new. He purposefully waited until the 2001.5 version to get the disc brakes in back. It has always been meticulously maintained, and was completely stock when I got it. Well, other than driving better than when it was new. Quite a bit of time was put into getting the steering right, I don't know what exactly it has up front that is different than stock, but I can see one of the steering "kits" up there. Whatever it is works, because it drives straighter and with much less steering play than my dad's 99 half ton Ram. This one is also a little unique in that it has the plow-prep package, which I was told includes stiffer springs in front, and the camper package so it has an extra leaf spring in back. So it sits quite a bit taller than others I've been next to, and rides like an oak tree. Actually, it rides much better with an oak tree sitting in the back.

 

I haven't done much to it. A buddy owed me a favor and installed a 2" coil spacer to level out the front, at the same time we put in Bilstein 5100s. Just the front for now, I have a set for the rear on order but haven't gotten them yet. I also removed the turbo silencer ring because I was new to diesel and excited to whistle, and of course youtube told me that would make it whistle! As you all know, removing that ring does absolutely nothing to how loud you hear the turbo, at least to my ear, so I also installed a BHAF (not just for the whistle). I can't remember for sure as this was last summer, but I am pretty sure the motivation for the BHAF came from Mopar1973Man himself, before I knew how famous you were in this sector. I then showed my dad what I had done and mentioned something about "wonder if I should put a heat shield on that" - and the next thing I knew he had made me one, out of diamond plate. You can see that in one of the pics.

 

Otherwise it's all stock. Always had FleetGuard filters, oil always changed every 5k, it's never even seen the inside of a car wash, always washed by hand. I'll try my best to maintain it as well as he did, but it's winter now and my garage isn't heated, so that last one may have to change.

 

She likes to haul firewood. Oh, and you can see the Cummins sticker on the back, which of course adds 80hp at the wheels, what I've been told. ;)

 

And the fact that it's stock is the reason I ended up on your site and why I wanted to post this message in the first place. Fuel delivery. The good, the bad, and the ugly. The history on my truck is that around 80k the lift pump was replaced with the in-tank by a dealer. They did this just because he had read that they were a common problem and wanted to make it "right" (what they considered to be right at the same, this was in 2008 or so). 100 miles after replacing the lift pump with the in-tank, the VP44 died. I assume the old lift pump was actually bad and the replacement put the VP over the edge. So it got a brand new VP44 from the dealer as well. I just rolled over 154k with it, and the more I read the more I worry. So I got gauges. And found I only have about 8psi idle, and if I stomp on it I can dip it below 5.

 

I didn't want to create a new forum post to cover information that already exists in so many posts already, and so I searched your forums for anything fuel related, and I read ALL of them. And I thought I had decided on what I was going to do - FASS 150 titanium with a Draw Straw V, until I saw someone mention a Fuel Boss. Then I saw someone else say Fuel Boss, then it seemed like every post I read had at least one comment in it about the Fuel Boss! Lol. So I'm hoping to get a little further insight there. FASS vs Fuel Boss - ideas? Good, bad, indifferent? One consideration is that it sounds like some are using the Fuel Boss with no electric pump whatsoever. Over the long haul, will that be hard on the VP44 to be pulling its own fuel during startup? What if I do something like install a Fuel Boss hooked to a Beans sump...? That way I could leave my in-tank stock pump in place, since it still works? But if I do that, I'm confused as to how I would plumb it properly, since I cannot plumb the T from the Fuel Boss into the in-tank pump, they would be pulling from separate fuel sources. Would that even work? I am not opposed to going FASS+DrawStraw, though I'm not super excited about dropping the tank just because I've never done it before. But if I can make Fuel Boss+Beans Sump workable, it's possible I could get all this working without even having to touch the top of the fuel tank...? Let me know if you see holes in my theory, because I'm sure I'm missing something important that will leave me stuck.

 

Thank you so much, and it's great to be part of this group!

5 hours ago, jokra said:

@CUMMINSDIESELPWR Thanks for the input! I'm hearing more and more good about the Fuel Boss. If I had an on-block factory pump that still worked, I think I'd be sold by now. Is that the way yours is setup? Or do you run just the Fuel Boss with no other pump for starting and priming? I'm curious if anyone has the Fuel Boss with the in-tank pump from Chrysler. Would be interesting to find out whether or not those two can co-exist. I have some ideas about how I might be able to make that work, but not sure how it plays out in real life.

my truck doesnt have an in tank pump. i have the stock lift pump bolted to block that is plumbed in but doesnt work off the ecm for some reason. i can hook it to the battery and it will prime, thats what i use it for. ever since i hooked the fuel boss up, the new oem lift pump has been sitting there getting a free ride. sometime this year im going to remove it entirely as all i did to prime the truck during my rebuild was remove the small belt and hook a cordless drill to the fuel boss shaft and spin it over and bam primed instantly. so really a cheap small cordless drill to prime the fuel boss seeing that it site below the fuel tank level wont ever lose prime.  the fuel boss plumbing is set up to use a secondary lift pump.

5 hours ago, jokra said:

My pressure goes from "bad" at idle to "terrible" when I press the go-pedal. So I've been accelerating very slowly and only driving it when necessary until I get the parts. Fortunately I work from home most of the time and don't HAVE to drive it very often.

 

About 9psi idle, normally about 7psi when accelerating slowly and cruising, but if I accelerate hard I can make it dip below 5 if I want to.

 

Now, as a sidenote, I was talking to a neighbor recently who has been a diesel mechanic (school buses) for almost his whole life. He said they have had many motors over the years with various Bosch injection pumps, and he said as long as you have 2psi moving to it, he has never seen any regular problems because of lack of fuel pressure. I know that directly conflicts with what everyone says about these VP44s, but that was his experience. He wasn't working with the Dodge interpretation of the setup, obviously, so maybe that makes all the difference.

 

I also have another neighbor with a 99 3500 CTD that just rolled over 300k. I asked him a couple weeks ago what he did for his lift pump and he said "what lift pump?" 

 

So clearly there are some cases of not doing a lick of different from the factory setup, and it lasting a really long time.

 

But...I don't want to risk it. ;)

the higher pressures are to get fuel flowing through the vp to ensure good cooling as the pcu on top can get stresssed and fail from heat. yes it will run with stock psi but the temps eventually kill them on street trucks

1 hour ago, Hawkez said:

I've called and talked to Richard a time or two and he is great at returning messages and getting you information.  I'm sure he'll be able to get you the info to make a decision.  I'd be interested in hearing what he has to say as well. 

i had trouble getting mine to prime (sealing tape got caught in check valve) he spent a couple hours on the phone with me troubleshooting. If my fuel boss ever failed....  i WOULD buy another from him period.

Jokra...

 

I'm real new here also, and fuel problems is what lead me to this site also. My fuel problem happened 1,200 miles from home at a RV park.  Couldn't work on it myself and really didn't know about fuel problems 2nd gens at the time anyway.  Had a FASS pump that was over 10 years old and 90,000 miles that broke. My theory after breaking down miles from home was a system that was easy to change out and get me somewhere with a mechanic I was happy with.  I was trying to find some type of duel pump system that I would not be stranded or captive to a mechanic.   Someone on here mentioned a Carter back up pump.    Eric at Vulcan makes the set up the is easy to change on the road.   Same fittings, same wiring connections etc.  Carter pump is under my seat in gallon plastic bag ready to go just in case.    If I get stranded somewhere, just unplug airdog pump and plug in carter pump. The only thing I don't like about the set up is the AN fittings.  I have my dash out right now to install pressure gauge and clean up the wiring. So I'm going to replace AN fittings with regular brass fittings.  Maybe me getting to old, but disconnecting those AN fittings in freezing weather, not a easy task for me.

 

Vulcan Performance Products Ph: 360-263-6037  Eric should answer phone.  Ask about Carter pump as back up pump that comes with everything you need to change on the road.  Or as Eric explains, people that are 200 miles from anything and their pump quits.  I think he only makes his set up for Airdog?  But wouldn't be hard to make for FASS pump in my opinion.

 

If doing it all over again I would go with FASS pump just because of customer service and my old FASS lasted over 10 years.  FASS would take different wiring harness I think, but not hard to make another wiring harness.  

 

I like the idea of a back up pump.  You don't know where your old system will fall apart at or who you have to fix it. If you can't fix it yourself.  Even if you know how to fix.  Next time at RV park ask about dropping your fuel tank and watch their faces    Hence a back up just in case. 

Best design would be an engine driven pump pushing fuel to an in tank jet pump that would push 18psi of fuel to the engine.  It would also need a booster pump to prime the system from a separate in tank sump.

 

However, the amount of work required would be excessive.  I just bought a fass.

First off I am by no means associated with any manufacture now that being said I am running a stock lift pump to hold me over until I get a fuel boss.

what I found is, I already have a draw straw so that makes me different from you jorka, but IMHO if you have an aftermarket pump without a draw straw you are begging for problems.  And last time I checked they sell a special draw straw for you in tank guys....

So you add the draw straw remove the in tank pump then add a stock block mount lift pump to the fuel boss or a cheap aftermarket electric running it through the stock filter/heater as a post filter set up, that way you have one of the most reliable set ups on the market. 

It's the most expensive route but imho if you are changing your fuel pump this is the only way to go.  Some by these trucks for performance, I as many others bought it to work and be reliable.

 

Not to mention air dog 650ish full kit

Fuel boss 650 Ish plus 250 at the most for new pump and drawstraw 

OR 350 for just a raptor that will still need plumbing and most likely a drawstraw

That's my 2 cents, I have heard of and personally failed electric pumps, I'm yet to hear of a fuel boss failure.

Edited January 9, 20178 yr by WiscoRedkneck
Stupid autocorrect

Amazing how much you miss after a post. I would like to add that when I found I had problems with the intank pump I installed a booster pump sold by BD diesel. They worked fine in tandem and eliminated the problems I was having. This was long before i became a member or knew anything about fuel pressure. Ran that set up for near 3 or 4 years before replacing the the whole thing with an AD and a pressure gauge.

After running a couple different pumps I have finally grasped that mechanical pumps tend to out live their electrical counter parts. My vp was happy with the AD II 165. However when I ppumped my truck.....not so much. So I sunk a ton of coin into a regulated return setup that works very well but I am at the limit for fuel flow at my hp level. Which is probably 4-5x what you are ever going to do so I do not recommend that route lol. I should have installed a mechanical pump long ago and solved my delivery issues. I am a fan of the fuel boss'.

Edited January 10, 20178 yr by jlbayes

Here I am with 11 year old AirDog 150 with 229k miles. Not always true that electric pumps are short life spans.

20 hours ago, Mopar1973Man said:

Here I am with 11 year old AirDog 150 with 229k miles. Not always true that electric pumps are short life spans.

 

You are also well within it's safety margin for use. I was not. They do not like to make a ton of pressure. Had I kept the vp, the AD would have lived a long happy life.

@jlbayes Where in Michigan are you located? Maybe you can stop by and p-pump mine too. Should only take a couple hours, right?  lol

I reside in Auburn Hills. The truck generally lives in Eaton Rapids at my parents. Honestly if you have ALL the parts to do it....it would only take me a weekend to get it done.

Haha, nice. At this point I will just be thrilled to see more than 10psi on my fuel pressure gauge, whichever solution I end up with. Good to see someone else here from the mitten. I'm straight west of you a few hours, close to Holland. Are those Silver Lake flags in your profile pic...?

What is it with all you west siders!? LOL

 

Yes they are. Picture is from the drag strip on Memorial day. I heard there is a vid floating around on youtube but I have not found it yet.

Edited January 11, 20178 yr by jlbayes

On 1/10/2017 at 2:23 PM, Mopar1973Man said:

Here I am with 11 year old AirDog 150 with 229k miles. Not always true that electric pumps are short life spans.

when airdog was made with love and high quality till it went downhill few years back IIRC..

 

airdogs are good, when they were quality made

Vulcan Performance makes some of the parts for Air Dog. I was over there watching the CNC machines milling the quick connects.

 

Eric told me that AirDog is still fighting that uphill battle trying to get their reputation back and have since gotten better about using good parts.

 

My Air Dog 100 is still good after about 40-50 thousand but is one of the older good ones.

Mine is about 6 years old but I did loose the pump about 15 months ago. They sent me a new no questions asked. Hope it was a good one.

19 minutes ago, dripley said:

Mine is about 6 years old but I did loose the pump about 15 months ago. They sent me a new no questions asked. Hope it was a good one.

did you tear open the old one to see what went wrong?

3 minutes ago, JAG1 said:

did you tear open the old one to see what went wrong?

No I did not. And now I cant remember what I did with it. Know I did not throw it away. Man I need to clean my truck. Probably buried in the back seat.

I tore my old AD apart after it started leaking outside, it was a tiny seal that seals on Armature shaft, it put some nice groves in shaft too. I ended up rebuilding it with random parts and a small seal I got on line, there is a leak hole between motor and filter housing and if it gets pluged, then when seal goes instead of fuel going outside it will go inside motor.  But I also bought a fast and been running it since. Ad is a back up now. I hope AD and Fassett can figure a better seal than that tiny thing I seen,  mabe something like a mechanical seal, but I'm guessing it will raise price too much.

Also I used a shim so new seal was in different place and brushes still looked great.

Edited January 12, 20178 yr by Dieselfuture

5 hours ago, CUMMINSDIESELPWR said:

when airdog was made with love and high quality till it went downhill few years back IIRC..

 

airdogs are good, when they were quality made

Is the reason I carry a spare, mine has been going for 6 years and about a 100k, I don't know what assembly line it came off of but just don't have the level of trust in it I should. 

 

The first one only lasted two weeks and locked up. I checked the gear rotors and they were clean but the shaft would not turn. I called air dog and told them and they sent me a replacement and did not want the old one back.

 

So I tore the old one down and used visegrips on the driveshaft and it finally broke free, and thier were some contacts that looked burnt and I cleaned them up and bench tested it and seemed to work ok. So it might work for a spare but for how long who knows, but it may get me home if needed.

3 hours ago, JAG1 said:

 

 

Eric told me that AirDog is still fighting that uphill battle trying to get their reputation back and have since gotten better about using good parts.

 

 

That's good to hear jag

Just an update for those interested in what Richard@GDP had to say about using a Fuel Boss alongside the in-tank pump on my 2001. First of all, you all were right - what a great guy. Easy to talk to, picked up the phone right away, and is a straight shooter. In fact, he told me I really don't need to change anything on the truck at the moment...more on that later.

 

I can definitely run a Fuel Boss alongside my in-tank pump in order to have it for priming and as an on-the-fly backup in case the Fuel Boss belt breaks or something like that. What I need to do if I go this route is make the order over the phone, as he will get me the 2005-2007 install kit, but with the 2001 pump mounting bracket. The 05-07 kit includes its own draw-straw style pickup tube that the Fuel Boss will pull from. Then after leaving the pump, you T to the factory filter and to the return. The existing in-tank pump continues to be plumbed directly to the factory filter as well, with a check valve in place so that it only runs and pumps fuel if/when the Fuel Boss is not keeping up to pressure. This way the in-tank will run during starting and for priming, and if the Fuel Boss stops working. Otherwise, the Hobbs switch turns off the in-tank as soon as pressure is up.

 

He said at least half of their customers use no electric lift pump whatsoever. As long as you don't lose prime, you never need to use the electric during starting. When it comes time to prime, you can either remove the inlet line from the VP and crank the engine to pull fuel through, or some people just pop the belt off the Fuel Boss and spin it with a drill or something similar, and manually prime it that way.

 

Rich then asked me what my current numbers were on my in-tank. When I told him 8 idle and that I can drop it below 5 when I step on the gas he said "That's normal, probably been those same numbers since it was installed. If you're not modifying the truck at all, I'd just drive and enjoy it." The majority of the failed VPs that he has seen have boiled down to a build issue with the board, not having anything to do with fuel pressure. On mine particularly, since the VP44 was replaced in 2008 with a new one from Chrysler, I should have one of the newer "good" ones that do not have this design flaw, and it'll probably run forever just like it is.

 

While that makes me feel better about puttsing around with it here and there unloaded, I still plan to upgrade the lift pump before I tow anything serious with it. ;)