2 stroke info.

[TFaoro]

9 hours ago, AH64ID said:

Where did my post go? You delete it Mike? :-)

 

If anything CR will have a better burn of the 2 stroke due to the pilot and average injection pressure. 

 

Anyhow, I don't buy the 2 stroke hype. I did at one point and I got a sticky residue in my exhaust and a sticky butterfly valve on my exhaust brake (only noticeable with a backpressure gauge). 

When ULSD first came out it was new and steps were missed getting it from refinery fuel to market fuel and it was noticeable in the high rate of VP-44 failures. This is no longer an issue. Nearly all VP owners don't use 2 stroke or any additive and most of them have OEM lift pump and VP-44's aren't dropping like flies. 

 

This article seems like it was done better than the original HFRR article, just my 0.02. 

 

2 stroke was designed to lubricate in aresol form in a much higher percentage, I honestly don't see much good coming of it in low dosage in diesel fuel. 

 

I see the current 2-stroke in your fuel crowd as being the next ATF in your fuel crowd. 

Maybe it  will, maybe it won't. I know mine idles quieter and gets better mileage with the 2-stroke in it. I'd love to see a disassembled pump at 150K with 2 stroke and without 2 stroke. Never will, but it would be interesting.  

[Mopar1973Man]

Quote

I see the current 2-stroke in your fuel crowd as being the next ATF in your fuel crowd. 

Won't happen ATF is too high in ash content not to mention the other compound like anti-scorching and friction modifiers. At least 2 cycle oil is just oil without all the add junk you engine can't burn.

[TFaoro]

3 minutes ago, Mopar1973Man said:

Won't happen ATF is too high in ash content not to mention the other compound like anti-scorching and friction modifiers. At least 2 cycle oil is just oil without all the add junk you engine can't burn.

I think he means it'll phase out like ATF did back in the day. I personally don't see that happening though.

[NightHawk]

Opti-lube hands down, never intend to go back to 2cycle

[Mopar1973Man]

Optilube is a good product. For most people its a mail only product. It does increase HFRR quite well. The only reason I still use 2 cycle oil is I got so much 2 cycle equipment. (Chainsaws, weed eaters, etc.)

[AH64ID]

11 hours ago, Mopar1973Man said:

Won't happen ATF is too high in ash content not to mention the other compound like anti-scorching and friction modifiers. At least 2 cycle oil is just oil without all the add junk you engine can't burn.

The pro-ATF crowd would disagree :-) 

What I mean is there is still a pro-ATF crowd and they cannot be told any different despite logic. This is where I see the 2 cycle crowd going  

It's simply the modern snake oil, IMHO. 

 

I seem to recall a pic of you showing us how 2 cycle keeps you from gelling... It certainly can't be the additives at the pump ? Just like the long VP life post 2009 must be from 2 cycle, despite the good fuel at the pump  

12 hours ago, Mopar1973Man said:

Still in all for a pump to be still labeled LSD is not valid either.

Where is said pump?

Edited February 19, 2016 by AH64ID

[Mopar1973Man]

9 minutes ago, AH64ID said:

The pro-ATF crowd would disagree :-) 

 

It's simply the modern snake oil, IMHO. 

Where is said pump?

As for pump labels most them are reported back east yet. Low Sulfur Diesel should not be even produced at this point for highway use.

As for the ATF usage... Yes that is ash build up... Yes.. ATF is high in ash content.

Edited February 19, 2016 by Mopar1973Man

[angus]

20 hours ago, dripley said:

When I first starting using 2 stroke i did notice the engine idled quieter than before using it. Right now mine is idleing even quieter than ever. I am thinking that it is bio in the diesel fuel. Most states I am driving in allow up to 5% with no labeling on the pumps. Anything over 5% has to be labeled. I did a few months back start seeking the bio diesel and thats when it quieted down even more than with the 2 stroke. I am still adding the 2 stroke except when they are labeled B-15 or B-20. I believe the the B-5 should be good with out it or at a reduced rate. I am not always sure what I am getting when I fill up these days.

The Love's I am building mixes there own bio here on site. They have 3 tanks with straight #2 and one tank of pure bio. It appears to me to be mixed on demand and not in the holding tanks. I will have to ask my fuel guy to see if I am reading the prints right. I am not familiar with the petroleum end of things. 

If we ever get a good reliable source of Bio in my area, I may switch and call it good. From what I read it would be hard to improve on at least from a lubricity standpoint. I tried mixing my own for my tractors a couple of years ago, but the pure bean oil seemed to be really filthy and not properly filtered. I decided to go back to two stroke until we get something that is refined better.

We do have one store now with a Bio pump, but they have had a reputation for having water in their gasoline.. So I`m not interested in experimenting with them. 

[AH64ID]

So you haven't actually seen a LSD pump? 

 

 

[dripley]

I have have had no issues with the bio fuels I have used so far. I have had very little water in any of it, no more than i ever had with straight #2. The mileage has not changed at all. Matter of fact I pulled one of my best mpg from one tank with B-15 bio-mass diesel. 19.6 mpg with 5% of in town driving and the rest highway. about 50% of that was on the interstate running 75 mph and the rest on a 4 lane running 65 mph. I never got another chance to do the same run with it to be sure it was not just a fluke so you can judge that how ever you want to. My other trips with bio fuel have all pretty much been mixed driving and the mileage remains the same as any I have gotten before. My fuel filters are not clogging up and none has gelled on me. For the most part I have not seen cold enough temps until this winter. The fuel pumps here in VA are not labeled as BIO so I dont know what I am getting. 

10 minutes ago, AH64ID said:

So you haven't actually seen a LSD pump? 

 

 

If they are back east I have not seen any but I really dont pay much attention to them unless they are labeled for BIO. I will start paying attention now and see if any I see are labeled LSD. I remember when they swapped over you would see both marked very well. Some of the truck stops would have large signs directing people to which pumps had one or the other. That phased out a good while back though.

[NightHawk]

15 hours ago, Mopar1973Man said:

Optilube is a good product. For most people its a mail only product. It does increase HFRR quite well. The only reason I still use 2 cycle oil is I got so much 2 cycle equipment. (Chainsaws, weed eaters, etc.)

I completely understand why you (and others) chose 2cycle over a mail order product such as Opti-lube.

Honestly I did not like how truck ran on 2cycle, out of curiosity have you tried opti-lube in your rig?.  I average 3500-4000 miles a yr on the truck as its a secondary vehicle, so 1 gallon last me all year which makes planning ahead of supply easy for me.

Opti-Lube XPD

• 1 Gallon = $50.85 + $16.00 shipping

• 1 Gallon = 128 fluid oz.

• Standard Treatment Rate: 1 to 512 minimum (.25oz per gallon of fuel)

• Recommended Rate (cold weather): 1 to 256 (.5oz per gallon of fuel)

• My Rate (easy to remember) = 4oz to 12 gallons or .33oz per gallon of fuel

• 128/4 = 32

• 32 x 12 = 384 gallons

• 384 x 15mpg (avg) = 5760miles per 1 gallon Opti-Lube XPD for me.

 

2cycle Pennzoil Marine (what I used to buy)

• 1 Gallon = $20

• 1 Gallon = 128 fluid oz.

• Recommended Rate (2^nd gen): 1 to 128 (1oz per gallon of fuel)

• My Old Rate (easy to remember) = 4oz to 8 gallons or .5oz per gallon of fuel

• 128/4 = 32

• 32 x 8 = 256 gallons

• 256 x 15mpg (avg) = 3840miles per 1 gallon 2cycle for me.

 

[Mopar1973Man]

17 hours ago, AH64ID said:

So you haven't actually seen a LSD pump? 

 

 

Not out west here. But several have reported "low sulfur" fuel available in the back east. I'm only typically in Idaho, Oregon (Biodisesel). I'm not a long distance traveler.

Let say I've never been east Minnesota and that was over 20 years ago since I was in MN. 

Edited February 20, 2016 by Mopar1973Man

[JAG1]

NightHawk I don't understand how you could not like the way your truck runs on 2 cycle oil. Both my trucks, the 24 valve and especially the 12 valve run noticeably better on it.

Second, I do not understand how Opti-Lube can achieve the lowest score value and beat out good quality ashless 2 cycle oil. Is it accomplished with additives? Is it something else I probably don't understand..... an ability to stick better to metals perhaps?

[Mopar1973Man]

If you read on the Opti-lube they at least provide a HFRR score test compared to all other products...

http://opti-lube.com/downloads/intertektesting.pdf

Quote

Cetane is improved by at least 3 points, fuel will flow down to -10° F**

That there is a sign of lower BTU content... As cetane go up BTU's go down. Like I know already Chevron fuel locally is rated at 45 cetane so adding Opti-lube will reduce your HFRR score which is good but also would lower BTU's of the fuel which is bad. So when cetane is raised typically BTU's are lost.

Sample of ASTM testing labs cetane scale. (Cennex Fuels)

So that's the difference between Opti-lube an 2 cycle oil. It the cetane. 2 Cycle Oil is a natural cetane reducer where Opti-lube is a cetane booster.

Edited February 20, 2016 by Mopar1973Man

[JAG1]

So that being a trade off where is the best position on using 2 cycle verses Optilube?

Edited February 20, 2016 by JAG1

[Mopar1973Man]

Cetane I look at from a different view angle.For folks that run a lot of interstates and high speed driving might gain slightly from high cetane fuels because it can burn fast enough for high RPM's. So for my self and typically much slower speeds I see better gain from lower cetane fuels. But remember if you in winterized fuels now and add Opti-lube on top you driving the cetane even higher. So from summer stand point might be optimal but from a winter stand point might not be. 

As for HFRR score Opti-lube does have the highest rating. 

Like if you look up the Worlds Largest Diesel Engine it has a redline of about 120 RPM's but produces 100,000 plus HP. The fuel it uses is like liquid tar. The cetane is extreme is extremely low but the BTU's are extremely high with a very slow RPM rate. Just food for though...

[AH64ID]

You want higher Cetane in winter since it improves cold combustion, starting, and low temperature burn. 

[Mopar1973Man]

17 minutes ago, AH64ID said:

You want higher Cetane in winter since it improves cold combustion, starting, and low temperature burn. 

Only for those few minutes of startup. After the cylinder temperature and coolant rises to operational temperature the environment is no different than summer weather. Cylinder temps are the same because of coolant being at 190-195*F. Just the incoming air is much colder which winter front typically aids in keeping the bitter cold out.

The only thing I can see that is need is a quality Pour point Depressant to keep the fuel from gelling up.

Edited February 20, 2016 by Mopar1973Man

[AH64ID]

You want higher Cetane any time in winter that your load is light, but startup is the most crucial. Even slow speed cruising will see benefits. Interstate speeds and towing don't get much of a benefit from it, IMHO.

 

Intake air temps and cylinder temps are lower in the winter, but with the location of your IAT sensor on the 2nd gen you cannot see it.

If coolant temp had that much of an effect on cylinder temps there wouldn't be timing adjustments for IAT and winter wouldn't provide lower EGT's for the same fuel/boost. The air just doesn't spend enough time in the cylinder to warmup to coolant temp before it is compressed.

 

There are reasons that engine manufacturers want higher Cetane in winter.

[Mopar1973Man]

Hence why the production of the MPG fooler because of the excessive high timing advancement that degrades MPG and efficiency. At least for the 24V optimal is 100-140*F for intake manifold. You can read the outside air temp with IAT really easy just minus 40*F from the IAT and you'll look right at outside air temp on average. The only time that value shift to minus 50 is below about +32*F typically I'm running a winter front as well. Still very predictable value.