2 stroke info.

[dripley]

@IBMobile. Good info right there. Pretty much what I have seenfor the past aeveral years of running B5 to B20. Maybe a 1 mpg drop on the B20. The truck loves it. I wonder how much easier the fuel gels between the 2? In my 18 years of ownership my fuel has never gelled. Now I dont see some of the temps some you guys see though as a regular diet.

Edited December 30, 2019 by dripley

[Mopar1973Man]

Yup @IBMobile is right on the BTU values... But I've got the last key though...

 

Stock truck with stock ECM tune is going to be deeply retard in timing. With ECM running retarded then the timing is right on mark. Now someone like me that is tuned to petroluem fuel (summer) with lots of added timing is going to take a hit to MPG performance. Now if I keep my current winter tune in the summer (which is retarded per good) then it should work out just fine. 

 

Since my summer tune is about 21 to 22 degrees at 2,000 RPM's then it would be igniting too early. But a retarded tune would fix this and get you fairly close to right. Since Idaho fuel is petroleum based and about 30 to 40 cents cheaper not worth the trouble.

 

Using ASTM testing labs cetane scale. Using Material data scales for diesel fuel information. Take note biodiesel is below the scales ability... 118k BTU's

Edited December 30, 2019 by Mopar1973Man

[dripley]

Is this based on B100 or the B5 to 20 I see most available? I have never run B100. Never seen it offered either. Out my way anyway.

[Mopar1973Man]

Oh even with my Emergency run to McCall hospital for @Wet Vette and quickly packing up and chasing her to Boise, ID St. Lukes Hospital and driving hard and using full power of my Quadzilla I still pulled 19.03 MPG with my foot in the throttle. But, there again I'm tuned for Petroleum diesel fuel not Biodiesel. 

 

 

Edited December 31, 2019 by Mopar1973Man

[Tractorman]

@dripley, finally, here is a photo of the label on the B20 diesel pump at Safeway in Molalla, Oregon. Now I have no idea whether the B20 in Oregon is bio-diesel or bio-mass based diesel, so since I have no idea of what I am getting, I think I will quit using the B20.

 

- John

-

[dripley]

The whole not knowing drives me crazy. I like using it but sure would like to know what it is I am buying. Everything is a bit vague to say the least. And I have never seen any other pumps labeled Bio Mass only, other than the 2 in Tennessee.

 

I did find this while researching again. FWIW.

http://www.truckandenginemanufacturers.org/file.asp?A=Y&F=Facts+You+Should+Know+About+Biomass-Based+Diesel+Fuels.pdf&N=Facts+You+Should+Know+About+Biomass-Based+Diesel+Fuels.pdf&C=documents

[Evan]

Wish I didn't blow my jetta up. 30mpg plus sure beats 17-22. I threw 22 in there because a few here get in that ball park. 

 

I put 45k on my truck last year and get fuel every where dont read what pumps are labeled the but dyno cant tell.truck seems to burn it all just fine. Does it even matter? To me no. 

 

I guess it makes for a kinda interesting thread to skim over.

[dripley]

11 hours ago, Evan said:

Wish I didn't blow my jetta up. 30mpg plus sure beats 17-22. I threw 22 in there because a few here get in that ball park. 

 

I put 45k on my truck last year and get fuel every where dont read what pumps are labeled the but dyno cant tell.truck seems to burn it all just fine. Does it even matter? To me no. 

 

I guess it makes for a kinda interesting thread to skim over.

Never had a jetta but 30 mpg would be cool. The only time I have seen 22 was out of a pump labeled bio mass diesel. The butt dyno could not feel any difference between that and anything else. I put about  30k on mine last year and like you I pretty much buy whatever there is buy from where ever. But if it is a well traveled road and I know the stations that have the best prices that where I stop. My truck will burn it all just fine.

Edited January 10, 2020 by dripley

[Dynamic]

None of my vehicles get very good mileage, but I don't drive very much, so it evens out. When the vehicle in my stable that gets the best mileage is my wife's Hemi Durango, you know you're getting the short end of the mileage stick! I have 3 vehicles; a Hemi Durango, a diesel pickup, and a BMW X5. The one that gets the worst mileage...the BMW, and by a wide margin! LOL

 

But, diesel in Stateline, ID is $2.74/gal, and I don't own a diesel truck for its mileage, so I'm OK with all of that.

[Scarecrow]

Here in Minnesota we are required to use biodiesel, so even though I don't really like it,we're just stuck with it. Summer fuel is the B20, and starts April 15 thru the end of Sep, when they switch to B5 or winter bio blend. 

I guess I've never noticed a mileage difference between the two, but that could be just the normal mileage drop in the winter making the difference between the 5 and 20% brews. I usually treat #2 than use the winter blend unless it gets real cold (-40). Big problem if you get caught with a tank of summer fuel and we get a cold snap in Oct. You probably know that bio starts to gel at around 40 F, and the higher the % better chance for a problem.  

[Mopar1973Man]

Once bio gels it will separate and sink to the bottom of the tank. Far as I know there is no product for gelled biodiesel that will bring it back to liquid.

Edited January 28, 2020 by Mopar1973Man

[Scarecrow]

FPPF makes a product called Melt Down that is supposed to liquify gelled bio diesel, haven't had to use it yet, so I can't say how good it works. I have used their bio diesel ant gel, and I do know it works down to around -35 F

[Mopar1973Man]

On 1/28/2020 at 2:12 PM, Scarecrow said:

FPPF makes a product called Melt Down that is supposed to liquify gelled bio diesel, haven't had to use it yet, so I can't say how good it works.

 

Take some summer biodiesel and then stuff it in the freezer over night see if it turns solid. Then add the product to the frozen fuel then return to the freezer and see if it does the job. 

[Scarecrow]

I was going to experiment with 911 and Meltdown to see if they preform as advertised, and if so, which is best. Went to local Cenex with a couple of pickle jars and put about a quart in each. Left the jars outside last night, I mean why put it in the freezer when it's -10 F outside? Bad news is it was Roadmaster, which is somewhat winterized, and still not gelled. I'll leave it out until it gels or spring, whatever comes first.

 

I did some reading on B5 and B20 studies by NDSU and U of M, and how cold affects both in farm equipment. The studies find that B5  blends have minimal effect on the CFPP (cold filter plugging point). B20 that is not treated with anti-gelling additives freezes about 3 to 5 degrees Fahrenheit faster than No. 2 petroleum diesel, depending on the cold-flow properties of the biodiesel and the cold-flow properties of the petroleum diesel.

 

Guess I got to go to a truck stop to find some "straight" #2. When I find some, I'll try this again just for my own curiosity, and let you know what I come up with.

 

Mark

 

 

[Scarecrow]

Unintended consequence of this is I can say that Roadmaster XL diesel will not gel to at least -30 f. Got a little soupy, but would still pour.

 

Mark

Edited February 15, 2020 by Scarecrow

[Mopar1973Man]

This is why I don't use any fuel additives, anti-gel or cetane booster. Just not needed.

[Doubletrouble]

 So as the owner of a basically stock truck, with stock ecm and no tuner am I ok if say I take a trip somewhere and am stuck buying bio-diesel or bio-mass diesel? Assuming it's spring/summer temps out no additives other than 2 cycle oil for lubrication.

[dripley]

The bio will provide all the lubrication you need. It is as good or better than the 2 stroke. I do not run the 2 stroke in my 2nd gen if I am buying the bio blend.

[Scarecrow]

The only reason to use #2 and treat it is that it has more BTU's, in other words, more power than a winter mix, which is normally about a 70/30 mix of #2 and #1. As I've said before, in Minnesota, we don't have a choice about biodiesel, the state says that's all you get.

 

The reason I'm doing these tests is to find out:

1. Is the increased (maybe) mileage of #2 and treatment a better cost effective plan or:

     a) This also brings the question, what works if I gel up, (or for you southern boys, if you come a little too far north in the winter with untreated fuel)

2. Is the higher priced and less (maybe) mileage winter blend overall cheaper.

 

This is what happens when you have time to think on long cold winter nights in northern Minnesota.

 

Mark

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 15, 2020 by Scarecrow

[dripley]

I can say this for this southern boy that any time I have had to go that  far north or west for that matter that the southern fuel is pretty much gone by the time I get there. I think the coldest my truck has ever seen is near 0.